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Post by vjaska on Dec 1, 2017 19:46:45 GMT
I’d of thought the top priority would be to provide a good service and to manage the budgets as best as possible. Exactly, not having buses with bits of paper in the windscreen or different route numbers on the front side and rear. I was thinking more about routes actually running, people being able to board buses & the money being provided to do such a thing which personally are the most important priorities but never mind.
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Post by sid on Dec 1, 2017 20:09:05 GMT
I am aware of that, the rest of the country switched to LED long ago indeed many ex London buses that are sold for further use outside London are converted. TFL don't like LED blinds. It's not gonna happen. Is that the outcome of the trial that you mentioned?
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Post by sid on Dec 1, 2017 20:10:53 GMT
Exactly, not having buses with bits of paper in the windscreen or different route numbers on the front side and rear. I was thinking more about routes actually running, people being able to board buses & the money being provided to do such a thing which personally are the most important priorities but never mind. I think getting something as basic as having route number and destination clearly displayed might be a good starting point.
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Post by ServerKing on Dec 2, 2017 9:47:56 GMT
I was thinking more about routes actually running, people being able to board buses & the money being provided to do such a thing which personally are the most important priorities but never mind. I think getting something as basic as having route number and destination clearly displayed might be a good starting point. +1 Getting on a bus when you have no idea where it is going to because all there is displayed is a sheet of A4 with something written in Sharpie pen just doesn't look right. If the bus gets turned and I am turfed off and have to wait for another one (hopefully with blinds saying where it is going ) it just wastes my time. I can appreciate newly transferred buses as extras on a route, but most passengers dont. If they want to keep the current tech, it looks like are resigned to it, but at least keep it looking presentable its the torn or blank ones that are the most common...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2017 10:20:46 GMT
It has been mentioned that one of the reasons to switch to LEDs is to halt the usage of the "paper in window" method. Ok so what do we do when the LEDs fail, as this happens just as much as failed blinds do if they are not maintained sufficiently?? Paper in window would still be an occurrence, albeit it not as frequent as now.
Jammed blinds was never really an issue when all TfL bus blinds were manual either ... So if that's the only bugbear of modern rollers then why not switch back to manuals...
In terms of presentation, TfL is all about uniform look, and part of that is the Johnston type face, which I am a very big fan of. So much so that I do all my work in that font.
On most LED screens the pixel resolution is not great enough to support the intricacy of the Johnston font. Only the really high spec ones can and TfL would probably consider them a greater cost than getting the roller blinds in the first place. I have been doing a new LED desto set for the commercial operationsat Potters Bar, and trying to do it all in Johnston font. On the standard 144x19 screen, it is rather challenging to get the destos in properly, with the special features of the font still present. I'm all for technology and modernisation, but TfL have SO many other prominent issues to solve first than changing the way that bus blinds are done.
For a company who's publicity department and proof checking has practically fallen so badly off the cliff that it's embarrassing, you should really be grateful that there's still a TfL thing that is actually pretty decent.
Should London go LED, then who would do the designs for the screens? Would TfL be able to pay for someone to do every since one for every single route and company, or would it be left to the operator? If it's left's to the operator then it is very likely that nothing would be consistent and the entire London scene could be a complete mess.
This is without contemplating any of the political or disability pressures...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2017 10:39:06 GMT
I was in Barnsley last weekend waiting for a bus from Stairfoot to Barnsley Interchange. The first bus that turned up was displaying "Bus Reversing, Do Not Board". Only on closer inspection did I notice the sheet of paper in the window that had 319 showing.
The driver apologised saying that the screen was faulty and couldn't change it.
Normally if a bus blind jams it is usually only one part of the blind so you'd still get the route number, or front desto. With LEDs it's all on one screen so if the screen fails then you've lost both the number and the desto.
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Post by M1104 on Dec 2, 2017 10:59:18 GMT
I understand that power blinds have a breaker[1] switch for each unit; front nearside and back. This breaker switch however is not easy to reach and is more for the engineers. If such a power blind fails to rotate couldn't they simply be set to one route number and have the bus allocated 'only' to that route until it's fixed?
Ideally though TfL need to put their foot down on this seemingly growing bandidtry, like they did when power ramp faults were abundant throughout the capital.
[1] - backup function in case the system fails, similarly with the doors
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Post by sid on Dec 2, 2017 11:04:41 GMT
It has been mentioned that one of the reasons to switch to LEDs is to halt the usage of the "paper in window" method. Ok so what do we do when the LEDs fail, as this happens just as much as failed blinds do if they are not maintained sufficiently?? Paper in window would still be an occurrence, albeit it not as frequent as now. Jammed blinds was never really an issue when all TfL bus blinds were manual either ... So if that's the only bugbear of modern rollers then why not switch back to manuals... In terms of presentation, TfL is all about uniform look, and part of that is the Johnston type face, which I am a very big fan of. So much so that I do all my work in that font. On most LED screens the pixel resolution is not great enough to support the intricacy of the Johnston font. Only the really high spec ones can and TfL would probably consider them a greater cost than getting the roller blinds in the first place. I have been doing a new LED desto set for the commercial operationsat Potters Bar, and trying to do it all in Johnston font. On the standard 144x19 screen, it is rather challenging to get the destos in properly, with the special features of the font still present. I'm all for technology and modernisation, but TfL have SO many other prominent issues to solve first than changing the way that bus blinds are done. For a company who's publicity department and proof checking has practically fallen so badly off the cliff that it's embarrassing, you should really be grateful that there's still a TfL thing that is actually pretty decent. Should London go LED, then who would do the designs for the screens? Would TfL be able to pay for someone to do every since one for every single route and company, or would it be left to the operator? If it's left's to the operator then it is very likely that nothing would be consistent and the entire London scene could be a complete mess. This is without contemplating any of the political or disability pressures... Do you ever go to places like Reading? Next time you see a failed LED take a photo, it'll probably be worth a few quid? What political or disability pressures? I'm sorry but most of what you've posted is nonsense. Why do you think just about every other bus operator in the country has long since changed over to LED? Just for the fun of it? Or maybe because it's a far more modern and efficient way of doing things?
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Post by snowman on Dec 2, 2017 11:42:38 GMT
It has been mentioned that one of the reasons to switch to LEDs is to halt the usage of the "paper in window" method. Ok so what do we do when the LEDs fail, as this happens just as much as failed blinds do if they are not maintained sufficiently?? Paper in window would still be an occurrence, albeit it not as frequent as now. Jammed blinds was never really an issue when all TfL bus blinds were manual either ... So if that's the only bugbear of modern rollers then why not switch back to manuals... In terms of presentation, TfL is all about uniform look, and part of that is the Johnston type face, which I am a very big fan of. So much so that I do all my work in that font. On most LED screens the pixel resolution is not great enough to support the intricacy of the Johnston font. Only the really high spec ones can and TfL would probably consider them a greater cost than getting the roller blinds in the first place. I have been doing a new LED desto set for the commercial operationsat Potters Bar, and trying to do it all in Johnston font. On the standard 144x19 screen, it is rather challenging to get the destos in properly, with the special features of the font still present. I'm all for technology and modernisation, but TfL have SO many other prominent issues to solve first than changing the way that bus blinds are done. For a company who's publicity department and proof checking has practically fallen so badly off the cliff that it's embarrassing, you should really be grateful that there's still a TfL thing that is actually pretty decent. Should London go LED, then who would do the designs for the screens? Would TfL be able to pay for someone to do every since one for every single route and company, or would it be left to the operator? If it's left's to the operator then it is very likely that nothing would be consistent and the entire London scene could be a complete mess. This is without contemplating any of the political or disability pressures... Do you ever go to places like Reading? Next time you see a failed LED take a photo, it'll probably be worth a few quid? What political or disability pressures? I'm sorry but most of what you've posted is nonsense. The political pressure is a myth nowadays, it used to exist before the DDA laws became effective. These laws are very prescriptive and nobody makes a statement like London buses should have font 7mm more than legal min. Since the DDA laws have become mandatory (there were many years before 100% compliance applied) no bus should be out working a normal route with non operational front or side blinds. It's the law (although doesn't appear to be enforced). Note I said normal routes, as there are partial exemptions for displays in unusual situations like diversions due to occasional events or roads blocked by snowdrifts (as examples). Poor maintenance or insufficient spares to replace damaged items is not a reasonable excuse. Unfortunately whilst regular fines aren't being made, and TfL turning blind eye, the law remains gutless.
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Post by ServerKing on Dec 2, 2017 11:45:37 GMT
Think we are lumbered with roller blinds, the way Sadiq Khan is now lumbered with West Ham's ground... McKenna make a mint out of TfL for supply of them, being the sole supplier. Only problem is demand outstrips supply hence no time for failed sets to be replaced. Blinds are still vague, i.e the 243 and 341 may both go to Waterloo but still terminate in different streets. Still loads of yellow blinds about, so no consistency across the board and that was since the idea to go back to white in 2014... I guess the demand on operators, or perhaps operators can't be bothered to keep up with the ever changing demands that they just put a badly dressed bus out... I have seen failed LED blinds, yes it does fail, but not as often as what we have. Most times, such buses have branding where you could figure out where a bus is going, compared to what is in TfL territory. Plus via points displayed on LED for newcomers are useful. TfL cant just think "this is our bus system, screw anyone who doesn't understand it", there are no maps produced, and as much as I love the new buses, I still think the whole system needs to be got rid and started over with a modern approach and outlook. The SEe9 approach is best, I would have rather seen this than the waste on electric buses, when we don't know how easy it will be to recycle the batteries, or how electric buses hate cold weather... still in future, Sovereign and other breakdown firms can make money towing a failed 214 back to Northumberland Park from Camden when the batteries pack up We don't even know who has replaced Leon Daniels as head of Surface Transport yet like a blindless bus, it's hard to figure out where TfL is heading next
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 2, 2017 12:15:39 GMT
It has been mentioned that one of the reasons to switch to LEDs is to halt the usage of the "paper in window" method. Ok so what do we do when the LEDs fail, as this happens just as much as failed blinds do if they are not maintained sufficiently?? Paper in window would still be an occurrence, albeit it not as frequent as now. Jammed blinds was never really an issue when all TfL bus blinds were manual either ... So if that's the only bugbear of modern rollers then why not switch back to manuals... In terms of presentation, TfL is all about uniform look, and part of that is the Johnston type face, which I am a very big fan of. So much so that I do all my work in that font. On most LED screens the pixel resolution is not great enough to support the intricacy of the Johnston font. Only the really high spec ones can and TfL would probably consider them a greater cost than getting the roller blinds in the first place. I have been doing a new LED desto set for the commercial operationsat Potters Bar, and trying to do it all in Johnston font. On the standard 144x19 screen, it is rather challenging to get the destos in properly, with the special features of the font still present. I'm all for technology and modernisation, but TfL have SO many other prominent issues to solve first than changing the way that bus blinds are done. For a company who's publicity department and proof checking has practically fallen so badly off the cliff that it's embarrassing, you should really be grateful that there's still a TfL thing that is actually pretty decent. Should London go LED, then who would do the designs for the screens? Would TfL be able to pay for someone to do every since one for every single route and company, or would it be left to the operator? If it's left's to the operator then it is very likely that nothing would be consistent and the entire London scene could be a complete mess. This is without contemplating any of the political or disability pressures... Do you ever go to places like Reading? Next time you see a failed LED take a photo, it'll probably be worth a few quid? What political or disability pressures? I'm sorry but most of what you've posted is nonsense. Why do you think just about every other bus operator in the country has long since changed over to LED? Just for the fun of it? Or maybe because it's a far more modern and efficient way of doing things? I don't see how most of it is nonsense, they're all genuine points. If LEDs are as wonderful as they are why have TfL not made the switch?
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Post by snoggle on Dec 2, 2017 12:16:48 GMT
I have seen failed LED blinds, yes it does fail, but not as often as what we have. Most times, such buses have branding where you could figure out where a bus is going, compared to what is in TfL territory. Plus via points displayed on LED for newcomers are useful. TfL cant just think "this is our bus system, screw anyone who doesn't understand it", there are no maps produced, and as much as I love the new buses, I still think the whole system needs to be got rid and started over with a modern approach and outlook. Oh come on - can we have a sense of proportion please? Yes all blind technologies are subject to failure. However there are not hundreds of buses in London running round with broken blinds. We have an "echo chamber" on this forum because people report them but it's completely exaggerated because no one is reporting the 8,000+ buses that are running with perfectly functioning blinds. There may not be quadrant maps anymore but there is online mapping, route level mapping, loads of app based mapping and Spider Maps online and at stops. That is hardly "no maps". If you want to guarantee an enormous loss of passengers and also of service volume / network coverage then the thing to do is "get rid of the whole system". There will be some, itching for massive cuts to buses and their funding, who would completely relish TfL setting off on an act of massive self mutilation. The last thing we need is wholesale change on the network. If there is to be change then it needs to be properly considered, evaluated and trialled. We do not have that now because of the desperation of coping with financial pressures. It is worth just remembering that we face another 10% cut in mileage over the next two years anyway. That will be bad enough and we will see routes disappear in that carnage - TfL have already said some night bus routes may go so there is a formal basis for my statement beyond my own opinion.
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Post by Nathan on Dec 2, 2017 12:36:06 GMT
Are we still going on about LED blinds? 🙄
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Post by sid on Dec 2, 2017 12:55:11 GMT
Do you ever go to places like Reading? Next time you see a failed LED take a photo, it'll probably be worth a few quid? What political or disability pressures? I'm sorry but most of what you've posted is nonsense. Why do you think just about every other bus operator in the country has long since changed over to LED? Just for the fun of it? Or maybe because it's a far more modern and efficient way of doing things? I don't see how most of it is nonsense, they're all genuine points. If LEDs are as wonderful as they are why have TfL not made the switch? Why indeed? That's the whole point of this thread? Or does anybody really think just every other bus operator in the country has got it wrong?
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 2, 2017 12:57:29 GMT
I don't see how most of it is nonsense, they're all genuine points. If LEDs are as wonderful as they are why have TfL not made the switch? Why indeed? That's the whole point of this thread? Or does anybody really think just every other bus operator in the country has got it wrong? I think that there is no wrong and there is no right, there's issues with LEDs and there are issues with blinds. TfL have chosen to stick with blinds which are easy to read in broad daylight and convey the message across clearly while other operators around the country have chosen LEDs for their different needs.
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