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Post by snoggle on Apr 22, 2017 14:21:20 GMT
Anyone noticed new bus stop number tiles being installed with a coloured stripe above the numbers?
The 275 was being done this afternoon along Forest Road - saw the men with their vans. Also the 167, 150, 462 have been done along Cranbrook Road south of Gants Hill. 462 is orange and the others are blue suggesting some sort of "Ilford to Barkingside" colour branding scheme. 123 and 179 not done and hard to tell with the 128 given it has a "24 hour daily" sticker. I wonder if TfL are updating spider maps or similar to give a consistent colour presentation for particular routes.
Any other areas with coloured stripes above route numbers on the stop tiles?
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 22, 2017 15:06:24 GMT
All the bus stops in Barking do have a new style spider map at the bus stops, but I haven't seen any new colours on the stops. I must keep an eye out next time I am out and about.
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Post by MoEnviro on Apr 22, 2017 17:09:50 GMT
All the bus stops in Barking do have a new style spider map at the bus stops, but I haven't seen any new colours on the stops. I must keep an eye out next time I am out and about. I have seen a picture of the Chapel Road bus stop in Ilford which now has them for the 167/169/462 but not the EL1.
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Post by joefrombow on Apr 23, 2017 2:10:10 GMT
Saw a 128 tile at a bus stop in Rush Green earlier with a purple colour at the top thought it was a sticker or something didn't realise this was the new in thing 😂 so the routes will be like "lines" on the new area route maps then ?
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 23, 2017 13:17:14 GMT
I managed to take a snap of one of the new spider maps. i.imgur.com/vYAS432.jpg It's worth noting a couple of flaws with this design. The map seems to work on corridors rather than actual routes. It makes it out that routes 62 and 368 have no relation to each other at all, despite both of them go to Chadwell Heath and via Lodge Avenue. Therefore seemingly there is one Chadwell Heath south of Barking and one to the north. It also completely ignores the fact that the 62 meets with the 287 and 368 at the infamous Lodge Avenue flyover. The map also ignores the 366s loop at Redbridge, as well as continuing to ignore the 62s loop at Gascoigne. On another note, the top right corner of the map (cut off in the picture) had a section for "other routes" and had route 689 which ran to Dagenham Park school
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Post by snoggle on Apr 23, 2017 14:44:44 GMT
I managed to take a snap of one of the new spider maps. i.imgur.com/vYAS432.jpg It's worth noting a couple of flaws with this design. The map seems to work on corridors rather than actual routes. It makes it out that routes 62 and 368 have no relation to each other at all, despite both of them go to Chadwell Heath and via Lodge Avenue. Therefore seemingly there is one Chadwell Heath south of Barking and one to the north. It also completely ignores the fact that the 62 meets with the 287 and 368 at the infamous Lodge Avenue flyover. The map also ignores the 366s loop at Redbridge, as well as continuing to ignore the 62s loop at Gascoigne. On another note, the top right corner of the map (cut off in the picture) had a section for "other routes" and had route 689 which ran to Dagenham Park school Oh help where to start with that new design. It's clearly designed to save space at the cost of any geographic accuracy. Everything's N-S orientated which is farcical - since when was Trafalgar Square in the same direction as Rainham? They might as well have not bothered if this is the sort of rubbish they're going to dream up. Sigh!
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Post by vjaska on Apr 23, 2017 15:03:40 GMT
I managed to take a snap of one of the new spider maps. i.imgur.com/vYAS432.jpg It's worth noting a couple of flaws with this design. The map seems to work on corridors rather than actual routes. It makes it out that routes 62 and 368 have no relation to each other at all, despite both of them go to Chadwell Heath and via Lodge Avenue. Therefore seemingly there is one Chadwell Heath south of Barking and one to the north. It also completely ignores the fact that the 62 meets with the 287 and 368 at the infamous Lodge Avenue flyover. The map also ignores the 366s loop at Redbridge, as well as continuing to ignore the 62s loop at Gascoigne. On another note, the top right corner of the map (cut off in the picture) had a section for "other routes" and had route 689 which ran to Dagenham Park school Oh help where to start with that new design. It's clearly designed to save space at the cost of any geographic accuracy. Everything's N-S orientated which is farcical - since when was Trafalgar Square in the same direction as Rainham? They might as well have not bothered if this is the sort of rubbish they're going to dream up. Sigh! Agree - the current spider maps are a much better interpretation of a particular place's network with some geographical accuracy. This is messy and fails to show potential interchanges such as between the 62 & 368.
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Post by romfordbuses on Apr 23, 2017 17:17:53 GMT
247 has yellow stripes done now all the way to Romford.
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Post by Dillon95 on Apr 23, 2017 17:46:00 GMT
I managed to take a snap of one of the new spider maps. i.imgur.com/vYAS432.jpg It's worth noting a couple of flaws with this design. The map seems to work on corridors rather than actual routes. It makes it out that routes 62 and 368 have no relation to each other at all, despite both of them go to Chadwell Heath and via Lodge Avenue. Therefore seemingly there is one Chadwell Heath south of Barking and one to the north. It also completely ignores the fact that the 62 meets with the 287 and 368 at the infamous Lodge Avenue flyover. The map also ignores the 366s loop at Redbridge, as well as continuing to ignore the 62s loop at Gascoigne. On another note, the top right corner of the map (cut off in the picture) had a section for "other routes" and had route 689 which ran to Dagenham Park school According to this trash, Central London is south east of Stratford 😕
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Post by danorak on Apr 23, 2017 23:29:29 GMT
Oh help where to start with that new design. It's clearly designed to save space at the cost of any geographic accuracy. Everything's N-S orientated which is farcical - since when was Trafalgar Square in the same direction as Rainham? They might as well have not bothered if this is the sort of rubbish they're going to dream up. Sigh! Agree - the current spider maps are a much better interpretation of a particular place's network with some geographical accuracy. This is messy and fails to show potential interchanges such as between the 62 & 368. I can't make head or tail of spider maps. I find them an utterly incomprehensible multi-coloured explosion of lines. But leaving aside personal preference, are they actually fit for purpose anymore? Now that TfL is relying on people using Hopper tickets, it's more important than ever to know what connections you can make rather than just journeys possible on one bus. Should we be thinking about something more akin to the - shudder - 'bubblegraph' maps of the mid 80s?
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Post by snoggle on Apr 23, 2017 23:57:34 GMT
I can't make head or tail of spider maps. I find them an utterly incomprehensible multi-coloured explosion of lines. But leaving aside personal preference, are they actually fit for purpose anymore? Now that TfL is relying on people using Hopper tickets, it's more important than ever to know what connections you can make rather than just journeys possible on one bus. Should we be thinking about something more akin to the - shudder - 'bubblegraph' maps of the mid 80s? Interesting that you can't cope with Spider Maps. Some are cluttered but most are not. I have seen people struggle with Spider Maps but they also struggled to comprehend where they were in relation to the "local street map" element of the overall map. Some people just cannot cope with maps full stop which I personally can't get my head round but I've seen it so many times that it's clearly a genuine problem for people. Lack of onward interchange information *can* be a problem with Spider Maps, ditto when they chop up one logical place like Croydon Town Centre into 3 or 4 maps which I find infuriating. Yes the bus network is complex in Croydon but only because TfL designed it that way!!! TfL could, if they wished, provide a symbol that showed those stops where there is a main interchange with other services but there's a risk that maps could become excessively cluttered if they did that. I would never advocate the return of the Bubblegraph map - ghastly things. TfGM's bus maps are decent - they show clearly where there are defined local interchanges and they also show the position of every bus stop so you can judge for yourself where stops are where roads cross but there isn't a defined interchange. Even better they are genuinely geographic maps so properly show the area as it is. www.tfgm.com/journey_planning/Documents/PDFMaps/Network-maps/Trafford.pdfIronically the one map that does not work at all is the Manchester City Centre map. It's impossible to see which buses go down which streets and whether are buses that can conveniently get you across the City Centre (barring the free Centrelink services). I know Manchester doesn't have many cross city services but even so.
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Post by mondraker275 on Apr 24, 2017 17:22:58 GMT
I have seen a lot of Bus tile work 'in progress' and not seen the finished work, so this was probably it. I will look out for this.
I thought that the previous spider maps were very well designed, and the information was clear and also easy to use. However, when I saw this updated design and before I thought about ripping into TfL, I thought 'Why are TfL doing this?', then I thought 'Does geography matter?', and then I thought 'Does the spider map matter?'. I have come to the conclusion they dont. Why do we even have a map?. If I knew where I needed to go, I would look up the destination on the destination finder and have a list of the buses and the bus stops needed to catch those bus. I have the local area map, I find the bus stop. What does the spider map actually offer.
The tube map for example is needed as you follow the stations through to your destination and if you need to change, you know what colours or lines to change from and to. Obviously the bus spider map shows all the buses of the area and not ones in an adjacent area to change with. Also, the destination finder is suffice for two routes from the same area going to the same area. You cant take a bus spider map with you, so its pointless also in that sense in terms of following your journey along.
So TfL should think about getting rid of the spider map and improve the local area map, stating clearly where one is (or mention clearly 'to look at the bus stop plate of the bus stop your at'). Have it larger, with bus routes next to roads or bus stops like the 'large region area maps'. Some area maps cover such a vast area, people want to make journeys to another place within the map. Make the destination finder clearer especially to get people to catch the bus in the right direction. I find the most common issue is finding the correct bus stop not necessarily the correct bus.
Can people see the point I am making about the spider map, its just dawned on me how pointless it is. Its been a long day, so I may have gone at this point.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 24, 2017 17:38:13 GMT
I have seen a lot of Bus tile work 'in progress' and not seen the finished work, so this was probably it. I will look out for this. I thought that the previous spider maps were very well designed, and the information was clear and also easy to use. However, when I saw this updated design and before I thought about ripping into TfL, I thought 'Why are TfL doing this?', then I thought 'Does geography matter?', and then I thought 'Does the spider map matter?'. I have come to the conclusion they dont. Why do we even have a map?. If I knew where I needed to go, I would look up the destination on the destination finder and have a list of the buses and the bus stops needed to catch those bus. I have the local area map, I find the bus stop. What does the spider map actually offer. The tube map for example is needed as you follow the stations through to your destination and if you need to change, you know what colours or lines to change from and to. Obviously the bus spider map shows all the buses of the area and not ones in an adjacent area to change with. Also, the destination finder is suffice for two routes from the same area going to the same area. You cant take a bus spider map with you, so its pointless also in that sense in terms of following your journey along. So TfL should think about getting rid of the spider map and improve the local area map, stating clearly where one is (or mention clearly 'to look at the bus stop plate of the bus stop your at'). Have it larger, with bus routes next to roads or bus stops like the 'large region area maps'. Some area maps cover such a vast area, people want to make journeys to another place within the map. Make the destination finder clearer especially to get people to catch the bus in the right direction. I find the most common issue is finding the correct bus stop not necessarily the correct bus. Can people see the point I am making about the spider map, its just dawned on me how pointless it is. Its been a long day, so I may have gone at this point. I disagree, I think the spider map is very convenient. Especially when placed at bus stops, many times I've found myself needing to go from A to B on the spot without any planning and the spider map has saved my guts. I was waiting at Waterloo and needed to get to Bricklayers, a 171 was coming in the distance and I ended up on it, luckily I realised quite quickly that the route didn't go Bricklayers and jumped off at Elephant where a Spider map saved me. Most people don't always have phones to take a look at, and the journey planner is such a nuisance to use now to a point that if I do use my phone I end up downloading the local spider map anyway. the spider maps were useful as they are and they didn't need a single change made to the design. In other news, today I saw in person the coloured stop tiles and the "24hr Daily" symbol on the 128 has been moved from above the route number to below the route number and reverted back to the old "24 hour" sign . No indication of if it was a daily or a weekend night route. I imagine they can get away with the 128 as it's a daily night route, but what about the weekend night routes? They'll almost certainly cause confusion if a similar principle is applied.
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Post by snowman on Apr 24, 2017 18:41:46 GMT
I managed to take a snap of one of the new spider maps. i.imgur.com/vYAS432.jpg It's worth noting a couple of flaws with this design. The map seems to work on corridors rather than actual routes. It makes it out that routes 62 and 368 have no relation to each other at all, despite both of them go to Chadwell Heath and via Lodge Avenue. Therefore seemingly there is one Chadwell Heath south of Barking and one to the north. It also completely ignores the fact that the 62 meets with the 287 and 368 at the infamous Lodge Avenue flyover. The map also ignores the 366s loop at Redbridge, as well as continuing to ignore the 62s loop at Gascoigne. On another note, the top right corner of the map (cut off in the picture) had a section for "other routes" and had route 689 which ran to Dagenham Park school I find this spider map really confusing . I admit I learnt my map reading on old 4 colour and 6 colour 1:50000 and 1:25000 Ordnance Survey maps (and a few inch to mile versions) but I can't follow this, it looks like abstract art. In my opinion: 1) It's geographically wrong, going East is never down, its right 2) It's wrong as a line diagram, as it shows connections to other modes but not other bus routes 3) The lines follow unnecessary curves 4) The name location is inconsistent, Everything to right except Longbridge Road Becontree Avenue, should be respaced to fit it in 5) similarly why is hail and ride wording on right and left of same route 6) The colour choice is dreadful 7) What's with a mix of solid lines and twin lines (ok twin lines are night routes or hail and ride, but not 24 hour routes) 8) The lines should come out of Barking name in same order so can see which goes through and not ends there (some would need to cross but that already happens in top half) 9) Why do ends of EL1 show daily (surely all the routes run daily unless otherwise shown), would be more logical to use the suffix for anything not everyday 10) It is poor graphic design to have names in mix of bold and light font (and having multiple Ripple Roads with the unique qualifier as light font) means unclear if name is just the bold bit, or whole name 11) bored of commenting now If it is designed to be used on a bus stop, the relevant stop should be at the top, not showing where bus has been to get to it. Go to any tube station and the principle is this station at the top, with stops from this platform only shown The local area (in this case Barking) is fine as the centre on the big poster maps, but not on a line diagram from this stop. In my view whoever (badly) designed this needs shooting
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 19:39:24 GMT
Maybe I am missing something but these maps look similar to ones I have seen in Central London (Night bus?) A tube map is not exactly perfect in terms of location / direction of places.
From a passenger point of view I think they look clear.
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