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Post by DT 11 on Sept 14, 2018 8:58:53 GMT
Exactly. TfL have taken the approach that all gyratories are bad full stop and are on a crusade to remove them from existence, increasing traffic junctions with little improvement in traffic flow. In reality it seems that sometimes it’s a good idea to make changes and sometimes it isn’t. Poorer accessibility to transport is never a good thing where shopping is concerned. Woolwich is a classic example of a town centre that has been made less accessible. The town centre used to be busier when buses could get right into the shopping area. Now buses skirt around it, making it more troublesome for less able passengers (elderly, disabled, travelling with young children) to lug home their shopping. Not to mention that passengers passing through have no idea what shops lie behind the main square with its lovely grass and giant TV. Car parking is not convenient either. Does the public realm look nicer? Yes. Footfall increase? Quite the opposite. Retail parks in the area are absolutely heaving on the other hand, local shoppers can’t get enough of them. London town planners seem to have lost sight of the fact that people primarily go to town centres to shop, not for leisurely walks to marvel at the snazzy new pavement or marvellous water feature. Aldwych...ok you’ve really triggered me by bringing that up!! Aldwych will be carnage once TfL make those changes. At present southbound traffic flows very nicely from Kingsway onto Aldwych. Not so once the gyratory inflicts a junction with two way traffic from Aldwych. The tailbacks on Kingsway will probably more than offset any advantages gained by the shorter distance to Waterloo Bridge and the Strand. Most northbound traffic into Kingsway from Waterloo can use the underpass and buses can turn right from the Strand onto Waterloo Bridge. Traffic flows well in Aldwych compared to other hubs in zone 1. You have to wonder what problem TfL are trying to solve with the proposed changes. Perhaps when travelling northbound from Arundel Street the removal of the gyratory will eliminate the need to merge with and cross southbound traffic on the Strand, but that’s a small gain for the pain it will cause. A complete waste of taxpayers money. Gyratory systems are being removed all over the country and not just in London, they were generally introduced to speed up traffic flows in an era where the car was king and everybody else was treated like a second class citizen. Woolwich......bus routings aren't ideal especially the change to the 161 but Powis Street is a far more pleasant environment for shoppers without the traffic. The decline in shoppers is really no different to other towns all over the country, largely due to the onset of online shopping. Out of town shopping centres, where people can generally shop in a far more pleasant environment, is one of the main reasons for pedestrianising town centres. Who wants to shop in a traffic ridden fume filled environment? Aldwych........I haven't looked at the proposal in great detail but it's not a particularly pleasant environment at the moment. Yes there will be more traffic congestion in the short term but the long term objective is to encourage more people to walk or cycle and I certainly don't see how this work is a waste of taxpayers money. Routeing the 161 to Powis Street would take too long, Plus Hare Street & Powis Street are dead. Overall Woolwich Town Centre isn't bad at all.
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Post by busman on Sept 14, 2018 9:05:21 GMT
Gyratory systems are being removed all over the country and not just in London, they were generally introduced to speed up traffic flows in an era where the car was king and everybody else was treated like a second class citizen. Woolwich......bus routings aren't ideal especially the change to the 161 but Powis Street is a far more pleasant environment for shoppers without the traffic. The decline in shoppers is really no different to other towns all over the country, largely due to the onset of online shopping. Out of town shopping centres, where people can generally shop in a far more pleasant environment, is one of the main reasons for pedestrianising town centres. Who wants to shop in a traffic ridden fume filled environment? Aldwych........I haven't looked at the proposal in great detail but it's not a particularly pleasant environment at the moment. Yes there will be more traffic congestion in the short term but the long term objective is to encourage more people to walk or cycle and I certainly don't see how this work is a waste of taxpayers money. Not quite a gyratory, but one that has gone the opposite way. Hayes (Middx) was pedestrianised, but has now had the High Street re-instated to normal traffic. Is so much better! The public realm of these town centre pedestrianisation schemes look nicer, but they are not practical for less mobile shoppers. Whilst footfall and active retail units decreases in Woolwich Town Centre, nearby retail parks are heaving with shoppers. Westfield Stratford is crazy busy too. Note that all offer easy and convenient car parking as well as bus access. Also their shops are highly visible to bus passengers passing through the vicinity so people actually know what’s on offer. In the summer my family went on holiday 3 weeks ahead of me. In those 3 weeks I used my car once. All other journeys were done by bus and I did a lot more walking. I didn’t have as much shopping to carry, no kids to ferry around to classes and I had a lot more free time to walk and explore. So I do see the other side of the coin. Now we’re all back to the 7 day a week drill, it’s back to the car and retail parks. Leaving the pedestrianised town centres for cyclists and people without young children to enjoy.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 14, 2018 9:17:56 GMT
Since West Ham lane bus section closed do the diverted the buses off the 104,238,262 etc serve the stop across the road from Stratford centre? Also are they diverted from the bus station bus via the 25 and 86 route or around the one way system. I know this all changes on Monday! The West Ham Lane routes currently leave the bus station the normal way via the 25/86, they then have a stop directly outside the entrance to Stratford Centre on Broadway. They then continue following the 25 and 86, but when the 25 and 86 turn onto Romford Road the West Ham lane routes continue to follow the gyratory and take a left onto Tramway Avenue.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 14, 2018 10:32:21 GMT
Exactly. TfL have taken the approach that all gyratories are bad full stop and are on a crusade to remove them from existence, increasing traffic junctions with little improvement in traffic flow. In reality it seems that sometimes it’s a good idea to make changes and sometimes it isn’t. Poorer accessibility to transport is never a good thing where shopping is concerned. Woolwich is a classic example of a town centre that has been made less accessible. The town centre used to be busier when buses could get right into the shopping area. Now buses skirt around it, making it more troublesome for less able passengers (elderly, disabled, travelling with young children) to lug home their shopping. Not to mention that passengers passing through have no idea what shops lie behind the main square with its lovely grass and giant TV. Car parking is not convenient either. Does the public realm look nicer? Yes. Footfall increase? Quite the opposite. Retail parks in the area are absolutely heaving on the other hand, local shoppers can’t get enough of them. London town planners seem to have lost sight of the fact that people primarily go to town centres to shop, not for leisurely walks to marvel at the snazzy new pavement or marvellous water feature. Aldwych...ok you’ve really triggered me by bringing that up!! Aldwych will be carnage once TfL make those changes. At present southbound traffic flows very nicely from Kingsway onto Aldwych. Not so once the gyratory inflicts a junction with two way traffic from Aldwych. The tailbacks on Kingsway will probably more than offset any advantages gained by the shorter distance to Waterloo Bridge and the Strand. Most northbound traffic into Kingsway from Waterloo can use the underpass and buses can turn right from the Strand onto Waterloo Bridge. Traffic flows well in Aldwych compared to other hubs in zone 1. You have to wonder what problem TfL are trying to solve with the proposed changes. Perhaps when travelling northbound from Arundel Street the removal of the gyratory will eliminate the need to merge with and cross southbound traffic on the Strand, but that’s a small gain for the pain it will cause. A complete waste of taxpayers money. Gyratory systems are being removed all over the country and not just in London, they were generally introduced to speed up traffic flows in an era where the car was king and everybody else was treated like a second class citizen. Woolwich......bus routings aren't ideal especially the change to the 161 but Powis Street is a far more pleasant environment for shoppers without the traffic. The decline in shoppers is really no different to other towns all over the country, largely due to the onset of online shopping. Out of town shopping centres, where people can generally shop in a far more pleasant environment, is one of the main reasons for pedestrianising town centres. Who wants to shop in a traffic ridden fume filled environment? Aldwych........I haven't looked at the proposal in great detail but it's not a particularly pleasant environment at the moment. Yes there will be more traffic congestion in the short term but the long term objective is to encourage more people to walk or cycle and I certainly don't see how this work is a waste of taxpayers money. Except that wasn't the case with a number of gyratory systems where pedestrians could still easily cross the road so they wern't always treated like second class citizens. Traditional high streets like in Brixton where there is little or no pedestrianisation at all are not succumbing to the trend no doubt because the access is so much better than somewhere like Croydon where everything is shoved out of the way - I've noticed how quieter Croydon is compared to a few years back. Out of town shopping centres still have fumes floating about - ease of access to public transport as well as other forms is the key issue here rather than traffic fumes. Places like Bluewater & Lakeside provide this quite decently Aldwych had junction improvements a while ago and really doesn't need more. It's easy & relatively safe to cross and has proper crossings & it sees plenty of people walking through so not sure who they are encouraging with the plans - besides, Aldwych is really a bus interchange rather than a place to go as the theatres are off the curved arm on the back streets. Making traffic worse will wreck the remaining bus routes running through giving TfL yet further excuse to make moronic cuts
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Post by sid on Sept 14, 2018 11:29:51 GMT
Gyratory systems are being removed all over the country and not just in London, they were generally introduced to speed up traffic flows in an era where the car was king and everybody else was treated like a second class citizen. Woolwich......bus routings aren't ideal especially the change to the 161 but Powis Street is a far more pleasant environment for shoppers without the traffic. The decline in shoppers is really no different to other towns all over the country, largely due to the onset of online shopping. Out of town shopping centres, where people can generally shop in a far more pleasant environment, is one of the main reasons for pedestrianising town centres. Who wants to shop in a traffic ridden fume filled environment? Aldwych........I haven't looked at the proposal in great detail but it's not a particularly pleasant environment at the moment. Yes there will be more traffic congestion in the short term but the long term objective is to encourage more people to walk or cycle and I certainly don't see how this work is a waste of taxpayers money. Except that wasn't the case with a number of gyratory systems where pedestrians could still easily cross the road so they wern't always treated like second class citizens. Traditional high streets like in Brixton where there is little or no pedestrianisation at all are not succumbing to the trend no doubt because the access is so much better than somewhere like Croydon where everything is shoved out of the way - I've noticed how quieter Croydon is compared to a few years back. Out of town shopping centres still have fumes floating about - ease of access to public transport as well as other forms is the key issue here rather than traffic fumes. Places like Bluewater & Lakeside provide this quite decently Aldwych had junction improvements a while ago and really doesn't need more. It's easy & relatively safe to cross and has proper crossings & it sees plenty of people walking through so not sure who they are encouraging with the plans - besides, Aldwych is really a bus interchange rather than a place to go as the theatres are off the curved arm on the back streets. Making traffic worse will wreck the remaining bus routes running through giving TfL yet further excuse to make moronic cuts I've also noticed how much quieter Croydon town centre is, just as most other town centres are whether they are pedestrianised or not. It's just down to more people shopping online, its been pedestrianised for nearly 30 years.
There is plenty of scope for improvement at Aldwych.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2018 20:46:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2018 19:34:55 GMT
Did anyone venture to Stratford today? looking at LVF lots of bunching on routes serving Stratford tonight.
See a ultra rare Keir Hardie turn on the 241 this afternoon so things must have been bad.
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Post by ronnie on Sept 17, 2018 21:36:12 GMT
Did anyone venture to Stratford today? looking at LVF lots of bunching on routes serving Stratford tonight. See a ultra rare Keir Hardie turn on the 241 this afternoon so things must have been bad. Large swathes we’re witnessing monstrous traffic .... limehouse has gone crazy due to the new restrictions at Rotherhithe tunnel, there were problems with the black wall tunnel, and I was stuck for 20 minutes trying to Get off Aspen Way onto the lower lea roundabout.... not sure why
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2018 21:52:58 GMT
Ventured to Stratford this afternoon wow what nightmare! the traffic in West Ham Lane towards Stratford starts at Portway and I have never seen so many buses caught up in one place! it must be a nightmare for controllers managing these routes.
In slightly better news the new two section was running well and was clear. Also a new bus stop is in place (257/N8) in Great Eastern Road ready for when the road goes two way next month.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 22, 2018 22:07:19 GMT
Ventured to Stratford this afternoon wow what nightmare! the traffic in West Ham Lane towards Stratford starts at Portway and I have never seen so many buses caught up in one place! it must be a nightmare for controllers managing these routes. In slightly better news the new two section was running well and was clear. Also a new bus stop is in place (257/N8) in Great Eastern Road ready for when the road goes two way next month.
Why on earth do TfL do this? They spend millions and shaft the operational efficiency of services they pay for? Someone really needs to start asking questions about these ludicrous mismatches of objectives. Newham has one of the highest levels of bus usage and bus service in London so screwing the service affects tens of thousands of people every day. It is simply wrong to inflict delays like this on people.
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Post by ServerKing on Sept 22, 2018 22:25:46 GMT
Ventured to Stratford this afternoon wow what nightmare! the traffic in West Ham Lane towards Stratford starts at Portway and I have never seen so many buses caught up in one place! it must be a nightmare for controllers managing these routes. In slightly better news the new two section was running well and was clear. Also a new bus stop is in place (257/N8) in Great Eastern Road ready for when the road goes two way next month.
Why on earth do TfL do this? They spend millions and shaft the operational efficiency of services they pay for? Someone really needs to start asking questions about these ludicrous mismatches of objectives. Newham has one of the highest levels of bus usage and bus service in London so screwing the service affects tens of thousands of people every day. It is simply wrong to inflict delays like this on people. I'm sure it will be just as good as Archway, Elephant and Castle or Tottenham Hale when it's done, and just as easy to navigate
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2018 20:08:08 GMT
Went through Stratford today for the first time since two way traffic was introduced on all sections of the former one way system. I must say things have really settled down there was now delays but this was a Saturday afternoon!
What I did notice was just how lightly used the new two way section is passed the bus station (Great Eastern Road). Road signs encourage cars travelling towards Mile End to turn at Morrisons but I wonder if this is longer than the old way which cars can still travel.
I was on a 69 and got me thinking if a bus terminates at Stratford from Walthmastow would it turn as per the 257 or go via the Broadway its last stop would have to be Stratford Library then the bus station.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 20:37:33 GMT
Since the 241 changed routing pass the bus station towards Canning Town the service has fallen to bits! I am seeing really bad bunching with massive gaps in the service.
I would have thought things would settle down now the works are pretty much complete. Not too sure how the other Stratford routes are doing?
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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 17, 2018 20:49:48 GMT
I would rather the 25/425 had not diverted via bus station as it adds to already long journey times.
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Post by zebedee104 on Dec 17, 2018 20:56:53 GMT
Which stop are 25 and 425 on in the bus station, going to Mile End? Went to have a nosey today but couldn’t see a new stop for them, and nothing on the posters to say they were rerouted into the bus station.
As a 158 user, it’s much better now we don’t go round the gyratory!
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