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Post by snowman on Nov 14, 2018 6:59:20 GMT
I did notice in the Board Papers that a new TfL Business Plan will be published 5 December and Finance Committee 13 Dec is being delegated to ratify it, so not even initially going to The TfL Board
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Post by snoggle on Nov 14, 2018 10:55:42 GMT
I did notice in the Board Papers that a new TfL Business Plan will be published 5 December and Finance Committee 13 Dec is being delegated to ratify it, so not even initially going to The TfL Board Standard practice these days. There is a lot of delegation from the Board down to Committees due to the disjointed Cttee structure which no longer always flows decisions up to the Board. In the past meeting structures and timings were set to allow a smooth upward flow of papers where a decision HAD to go to the Board because of the authority levels being sought. Clearly some things can be adequately determined and approved at Committee level but I'm not sure the Business Plan is one of those things given its role.
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Post by snowman on Nov 27, 2018 9:04:56 GMT
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Post by wirewiper on Nov 27, 2018 9:54:01 GMT
Interesting that one of the trends is that people are simply travelling less, i.e. making fewer journeys. This is thought to be a consequence of more online shopping at home and increasing working from home.
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Post by rugbyref on Nov 27, 2018 9:56:35 GMT
Not possibly because fewer buses are running?!
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Post by wirewiper on Nov 27, 2018 9:58:46 GMT
Not possibly because fewer buses are running?! Fewer buses running is more likely to be a consequence of this than a cause. (I appreciate there are also other factors at play here).
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Post by snoggle on Nov 27, 2018 11:24:39 GMT
Interesting that one of the trends is that people are simply travelling less, i.e. making fewer journeys. This is thought to be a consequence of more online shopping at home and increasing working from home. That trend has been apparent for the last 2-3 years. I have commented about it on here before. Declining trip rates are not properly understood yet by TfL so they don't actually know what to do in policy terms to deal with it. I suspect if they were to concede that they *do* understand what is happening then it would force some quite fundamental rethinks on a number of projects. If your commuter travel base is weakening (as seems to be the case) and off peak travel volumes are lower than in the past then it makes it much harder to justify comprehensive service levels and investment in large scale projects like Crossrail 2 and the Bakerloo Line extension. I also don't see how you "encourage" developers to contribute to public transport enhancements if those developments are less likely to be reached by people using conventional public transport or residents of new housing won't use new tube / rail / tram / bus services anywhere near as much as has been assumed in the past. There are some potentially horrible consequences from declining trip rates. Obviously London has a high base level of public transport use which puts it ahead of the rest of the country but if it becomes hard to justify significant spend here it will get even harder in Metropolitan areas even recognising the need for "catch up" investment in terms of extra capacity to cope with current overcrowding. The new Travel in London Report 11 still hasn't reached the TfL website.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 27, 2018 11:34:48 GMT
Not possibly because fewer buses are running?! The TfL reports are nearly always a year in arrears so the impact of more recent cuts to bus services won't reflect in the reported trends for a while. We're not really at the stage where bus services are so abysmal in London that people travel less. People are travelling less because the way they run their lives has changed as has been much discussed on this forum. Fewer pubs / changes to leisure activities / internet shopping / home delivery / working from home / reduced numbers of 9-5 jobs / less discretionary income etc etc. All this will change how / why people get around London (and other places). We also have things like Uber which take people off TfL services. A couple of personal examples from me - I no longer commute to work. That's 10 fewer bus and tube return trips every week. I've changed where and how often I shop - that's at least 1 return trip by bus less per week. I don't go to the Doctor's surgery to collect a prescription - that's 1 less return bus trip per month (on average). All little things really but if my behaviour is anywhere near the average person's (and some of it will be) then it means less travel on TfL services.
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Post by snowman on Nov 27, 2018 11:46:58 GMT
Interesting that one of the trends is that people are simply travelling less, i.e. making fewer journeys. This is thought to be a consequence of more online shopping at home and increasing working from home. The working from home is noticeable where I work, it is much quieter on Fridays This does raise the question of if Friday timetables should be different going forward, and before some of our younger readers think that having a different timetable is barmy, until the 1950s Saturday mornings were part of the working week as 5.5 days per week was norm. There was a Saturday lunchtime peak hour Whilst online shopping has clearly grown, (and with it delivery vans). This also has to be taken into context. Until the 1970s shopping was generally done in the local High Street. Then in 1980s there were big out of town stores developed, with huge car parks (at the time stores closed 6pm or 8pm on Thur and Fri and didn't open Sundays). Some of the supermarkets are now 24 hour and have half empty car parks. In the last few years has been switch from big weekly/fortnightly shops back to local convenience shops. So how has the bus network changed, a few routes were extended to superstores / large supermarkets a 10-20 ago, but core networks still seem to be aimed at old shopping areas. If I look at my local area (Kingston) my local routes end at Kingston, but none serve the new retail parks. We often drive to Kew Retail park (where parking is free) rather than travel to nearer Kingston. I add to congestion, but TfLs policies (which are badly thought out blunt instruments) effectively encourage this as many of the new bigger stores are not reachable by single bus journey. When I do go to Kingston I pay cash for parking, if I want to use the bus I have to do a 600m walk (each way) to top up an oyster card (you cant top up with cash otherwise), again money saving which discourages bus use. To be honest, nowadays I rarely use the bus (yes, even someone on this forum who is supposed to love them), too hot in summer, too noisy compared to the car, seats too uncomfortable (even for 10 minute journey), too regularly delayed by poor traffic light sequencing (in the car I can use back streets to avoid this) and the bus stops in Kingston are horrible (they have new shelters, but negligible seating), and now I'm in my mid 50s can't be bothered to use the upstairs if I have bags of shopping. Perhaps if TfL changed from double decks to longer single decks I may be encouraged more (or perhaps I just wait 5 years for a 60+ bus pass) I cannot get to any friends, or my evening social events, or my work, easily by bus, so car has become my principle transport mode
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Post by snowman on Nov 27, 2018 21:12:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2018 21:43:09 GMT
A little snapshot from me.
I will use the bus over my car to travel to my nearest town centre . Simply because it is actually often quicker, and cheap.
If I lived within Central London I’d be doing the same.
At my work place, a surprising number of people in their twenties have not learned to drive. They live in affordable homes , often joint tenancies or shared ownership. They compromise on cars , usually because the parking is limited and/or expensive. Plus despite all cuts, the transport system is still pretty good at the moment, night tube helping much.
Coach travel into London from Kent is booming, Just look how many Kent commuter coaches ply up and down the A2 at rush hours. Almost every 5 mins, before veering off to different corners of Kent.
The work from home on Fridays ritual is growing, but this can only be achieved in certain jobs. Emergency and infrastructure staff can never do it. I dare say the affluent parts of the city see this the most.
So there is a small beacon of light , there is a demand, but it is shifting into areas that used to be quieter,
I’d like to see more cross boundary routes personally.
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Post by sid on Nov 28, 2018 12:06:13 GMT
A little snapshot from me. I will use the bus over my car to travel to my nearest town centre . Simply because it is actually often quicker, and cheap. If I lived within Central London I’d be doing the same. At my work place, a surprising number of people in their twenties have not learned to drive. They live in affordable homes , often joint tenancies or shared ownership. They compromise on cars , usually because the parking is limited and/or expensive. Plus despite all cuts, the transport system is still pretty good at the moment, night tube helping much. Coach travel into London from Kent is booming, Just look how many Kent commuter coaches ply up and down the A2 at rush hours. Almost every 5 mins, before veering off to different corners of Kent. The work from home on Fridays ritual is growing, but this can only be achieved in certain jobs. Emergency and infrastructure staff can never do it. I dare say the affluent parts of the city see this the most. So there is a small beacon of light , there is a demand, but it is shifting into areas that used to be quieter, I’d like to see more cross boundary routes personally. I would imagine there will a considerable drop in coach travel from North Kent when Crossrail opens providing a faster journey to and from Canary Wharf? Friday's have been a lot quieter on the roads for some years now and that trend certainly does seem to be increasing, maybe there is a case for separate bus schedules as has been suggested?
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Post by redbus on Nov 28, 2018 22:52:29 GMT
Not possibly because fewer buses are running?! Fewer buses running is more likely to be a consequence of this than a cause. (I appreciate there are also other factors at play here). Arguably it is both. If you have a relatively fast, frequent bus service with buses going to places you wish to travel to (with none or few changes) you will attract passengers. London had this, and still does albeit to a lesser extent. As this falls apart you lose passengers. If journeys take longer, could be because of traffic or delays or a longer wait for the bus, or whatever reason, or you have to start changing onto more and more buses, patronage will go down. The road modernisation programme has caused longer journey times combined with the new cycling infrastructure making cycling more attractive, all leads to fewer passengers. Fewer buses lead to longer waits, maybe more crowded buses and this too will lead to a loss in patronage. Lost links will also lead to a loss in patronage and the hopper fare won't stop this to any great extent. So it is both a consequence and a cause.
I appreciate the cuts started gently with the Finchley Road changes in April 2017, and with the figures in arrears, at this stage it is likely to be more a consequence than a cause, but as more cuts kick in that will change.
In terms of home working it is worth remembering this. One of the reasons employers like this is they can cut their property costs. For example if you have 20 desks and 20 employees and then let those employees work at home say two days a week, then you will find that you only need 17 or 18 desks for your 20 employees. That means less space, less property, lower cost. This is what is happening with home working. One side effect is that lots of people work at home on a Friday given a free choice, as opposed to any other day, because it gives them three consecutive days out of the office. This does skew the figures and leads to lower demand on a Friday.
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Post by snowman on Dec 4, 2018 21:24:58 GMT
Programmes and Investment Committee 11 December content.tfl.gov.uk/pic-20181211-public-pack.pdf200+ pages, not yet had a chance to read it, but the investment programme section reads like a business plan (the new 5 year plan is due to be in the Finance Committee papers (probably tomorrow afternoon / evening) Following jumped out at me Page 63 Holborn station upgrade is now targeted to be done by 2028, (10 years time) Page 83 Barking Riverside extension is running 197 days (6.5 months) late Page 143 pantograph bus trial abandoned & 90 new dial a ride buses by March Page 147 update on bus euroIV Page 148 updates on LEBZ page 184 New routemaster bus £7.1m. (unless this is upgrade) DLR replacement stock page 193 on with proposed service pattern page 197
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Post by galwhv69 on Dec 5, 2018 7:55:30 GMT
On page 184 it also states Bus garage Anyone know the location or operator East London Bus Garage 0.0 0.9 -0.9
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