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Post by snoggle on Jul 5, 2017 22:02:25 GMT
TfL are considering converting Tramlink to an entirely cashless system like buses. Details in this paper. tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/csopp-20170713-part-1-item09-cash-free-trams.pdfAt this stage they are only proposing an initial consultation with stakeholders and interested groups. However there appear to be strong financial reasons for removing cash - no need to renew ticket machines, no ticket replenishment, no cash servicing, no centralised cash handling and banking etc etc. I reckon this one will be implemented pretty before the end of 2018. |
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Post by snoggle on Sept 5, 2017 10:46:20 GMT
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Post by T.R. on Sept 8, 2017 16:11:37 GMT
It makes sense considering that trams are on a similar fare structure to the buses. Won't stop the freeloaders though...
Ideally tickets to Wimbledon station should include a tram supplement (or just sell bus/tram passes on the NR TVMs), but that's for another debate.
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Post by sid on Sept 12, 2017 15:01:58 GMT
Does anybody actually pay cash on Tramlink anymore? I can't remember the last time I saw anybody using a machine, either oyster or free ride.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 12, 2017 16:03:52 GMT
Does anybody actually pay cash on Tramlink anymore? I can't remember the last time I saw anybody using a machine, either oyster or free ride. Yes - it's a very small proportion as set out in the consultation info. The biggest concern I have heard voiced is for people arriving at East Croydon by rail who do not have a compatible smart facility but who wish to travel by tram. The simplest way to resolve that, given Tramlink is a flat fare single zone system, is to create "Croydon Tram" as a destination for NR tickets or allow "Croydon Tramplus" (like Plusbus) facility so people can buy an add on before they start their rail journey. Doesn't fix every problem but would deal with many of a small rump. It's clearly the case that TfL are going to remove the ticket machines regardless of what the consultation response is. They've said they've no money for new or to overhaul existing machines so that settles it. |
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Post by Hassaan on Sept 12, 2017 16:27:44 GMT
Does anybody actually pay cash on Tramlink anymore? I can't remember the last time I saw anybody using a machine, either oyster or free ride. Yes - it's a very small proportion as set out in the consultation info. The biggest concern I have heard voiced is for people arriving at East Croydon by rail who do not have a compatible smart facility but who wish to travel by tram. The simplest way to resolve that, given Tramlink is a flat fare single zone system, is to create "Croydon Tram" as a destination for NR tickets or allow "Croydon Tramplus" (like Plusbus) facility so people can buy an add on before they start their rail journey. Doesn't fix every problem but would deal with many of a small rump. It's clearly the case that TfL are going to remove the ticket machines regardless of what the consultation response is. They've said they've no money for new or to overhaul existing machines so that settles it. You can already get rail tickets that include a Tramlink journey add-on from many stations |
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Post by snoggle on Sept 12, 2017 18:16:57 GMT
You can already get rail tickets that include a Tramlink journey add-on from many stations Ta - I've learnt something. I know there used to be through tickets to / from some tube stations but thought they'd been scrapped years ago. I'd assumed the same was true for NR stns. I suspect some advertising effort would help deal with any "edge cases" for those travelling by rail but wanting to continue on by tram. Oh my second learning point is that I didn't know you could make BRfares.com do what you set up - enter a destination and show the valid origins. |
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Post by Hassaan on Sept 12, 2017 19:41:34 GMT
You can already get rail tickets that include a Tramlink journey add-on from many stations Ta - I've learnt something. I know there used to be through tickets to / from some tube stations but thought they'd been scrapped years ago. I'd assumed the same was true for NR stns. I suspect some advertising effort would help deal with any "edge cases" for those travelling by rail but wanting to continue on by tram. Oh my second learning point is that I didn't know you could make BRfares.com do what you set up - enter a destination and show the valid origins. I only knew such tickets existed because a long announcement plays on the trams when they depart those stops with rail interchange, and that announcement mentions about tickets saying Tramlink in the to or from field (in addition to the valid zones for Travelcards and about penalty fares). The feature on BRfares.com working this way round appears to be recent, as I knew it could show all valid destinations from an origin, but I had never seen an option for this way round before. The link for both options is at the bottom of the homepage. |
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Post by sid on Sept 13, 2017 11:02:07 GMT
Does anybody actually pay cash on Tramlink anymore? I can't remember the last time I saw anybody using a machine, either oyster or free ride. Yes - it's a very small proportion as set out in the consultation info. The biggest concern I have heard voiced is for people arriving at East Croydon by rail who do not have a compatible smart facility but who wish to travel by tram. The simplest way to resolve that, given Tramlink is a flat fare single zone system, is to create "Croydon Tram" as a destination for NR tickets or allow "Croydon Tramplus" (like Plusbus) facility so people can buy an add on before they start their rail journey. Doesn't fix every problem but would deal with many of a small rump. It's clearly the case that TfL are going to remove the ticket machines regardless of what the consultation response is. They've said they've no money for new or to overhaul existing machines so that settles it. But then of course it's the same situation for anybody arriving at East Croydon and wanting to travel by bus. A machine selling oysters would be useful at busy stations but I really don't think there is any case for keeping the existing machines at every tram stop. |
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Post by snoggle on Sept 13, 2017 11:36:52 GMT
Yes - it's a very small proportion as set out in the consultation info. The biggest concern I have heard voiced is for people arriving at East Croydon by rail who do not have a compatible smart facility but who wish to travel by tram. The simplest way to resolve that, given Tramlink is a flat fare single zone system, is to create "Croydon Tram" as a destination for NR tickets or allow "Croydon Tramplus" (like Plusbus) facility so people can buy an add on before they start their rail journey. Doesn't fix every problem but would deal with many of a small rump. It's clearly the case that TfL are going to remove the ticket machines regardless of what the consultation response is. They've said they've no money for new or to overhaul existing machines so that settles it. But then of course it's the same situation for anybody arriving at East Croydon and wanting to travel by bus. A machine selling oysters would be useful at busy stations but I really don't think there is any case for keeping the existing machines at every tram stop. I don't think I have suggested that machines should be kept. I thought East Croydon GTR ticket office could sell / add value to Oyster cards but I may be wrong on that. There may also be a ticket stop nearby but whether it has long opening hours is probably the key issue in terms of it being an effective alternative outlet. In an ideal world there would be machines that could vend Oyster cards but I can't see GTR wanting to take them on without being paid lots of money and clearly TfL aren't in the business of removing old machines just to put in new but different ones. The general thrust of TfL ticketing policy is to get people off Oyster and on to Contactless if they can as it saves TfL the cost of card purchase and ongoing admin / management of those cards. Nottingham has just updated its smartcard system and it seems you can do clever things in terms of buying brand new cards from street vending machines. Ironically there isn't a vending machine in or very close to Nottingham NR station nor the adjacent NET (tram) station at the station which seems slightly bonkers to me. However they do still sell paper tickets and accept cash so it's not a total loss by any means. |
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Post by sid on Sept 13, 2017 11:54:48 GMT
But then of course it's the same situation for anybody arriving at East Croydon and wanting to travel by bus. A machine selling oysters would be useful at busy stations but I really don't think there is any case for keeping the existing machines at every tram stop. I don't think I have suggested that machines should be kept. I thought East Croydon GTR ticket office could sell / add value to Oyster cards but I may be wrong on that. There may also be a ticket stop nearby but whether it has long opening hours is probably the key issue in terms of it being an effective alternative outlet. In an ideal world there would be machines that could vend Oyster cards but I can't see GTR wanting to take them on without being paid lots of money and clearly TfL aren't in the business of removing old machines just to put in new but different ones. The general thrust of TfL ticketing policy is to get people off Oyster and on to Contactless if they can as it saves TfL the cost of card purchase and ongoing admin / management of those cards. Nottingham has just updated its smartcard system and it seems you can do clever things in terms of buying brand new cards from street vending machines. Ironically there isn't a vending machine in or very close to Nottingham NR station nor the adjacent NET (tram) station at the station which seems slightly bonkers to me. However they do still sell paper tickets and accept cash so it's not a total loss by any means. I might be wrong but I don't think any NR stations sell or top up oyster anymore? There were conductors on Nottingham trams when I last used them but I think they've gone now or at least their role has been changed? |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 13, 2017 12:02:23 GMT
I don't think I have suggested that machines should be kept. I thought East Croydon GTR ticket office could sell / add value to Oyster cards but I may be wrong on that. There may also be a ticket stop nearby but whether it has long opening hours is probably the key issue in terms of it being an effective alternative outlet. In an ideal world there would be machines that could vend Oyster cards but I can't see GTR wanting to take them on without being paid lots of money and clearly TfL aren't in the business of removing old machines just to put in new but different ones. The general thrust of TfL ticketing policy is to get people off Oyster and on to Contactless if they can as it saves TfL the cost of card purchase and ongoing admin / management of those cards. Nottingham has just updated its smartcard system and it seems you can do clever things in terms of buying brand new cards from street vending machines. Ironically there isn't a vending machine in or very close to Nottingham NR station nor the adjacent NET (tram) station at the station which seems slightly bonkers to me. However they do still sell paper tickets and accept cash so it's not a total loss by any means. I might be wrong but I don't think any NR stations sell or top up oyster anymore? There were conductors on Nottingham trams when I last used them but I think they've gone now or at least their role has been changed? I am not sure they sell, but Barking tops up Oyster. |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 13, 2017 13:12:13 GMT
I might be wrong but I don't think any NR stations sell or top up oyster anymore? There were conductors on Nottingham trams when I last used them but I think they've gone now or at least their role has been changed? I am not sure they sell, but Barking tops up Oyster. Doesn't all non London Overground stations within the Oyster zone top up Oyster? I topped my Oyster up at Bickley last month and Brixton has the same machine as well. |
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Post by snoggle on Sept 13, 2017 13:29:56 GMT
I am not sure they sell, but Barking tops up Oyster. Doesn't all non London Overground stations within the Oyster zone top up Oyster? I topped my Oyster up at Bickley last month and Brixton has the same machine as well. From passenger operated machines then yes. There have always been a limited number of NR ticket offices that could handle Oyster but the number has reduced as TOCs have changed their booking office machines and new models have not been able to work with Oyster. God knows why we've ended up with this mess but that's the nonsense you get with unco-ordinated TOCs. My original reference was to the ticket office at East Croydon NR. I haven't got an up to date version of the TfL ticketing handbooks I used to request via FOI and TfL don't put the Oyster ticket office stuff on their website. Heaven knows why not. I've dug out my 2016 documents from TfL. East Croydon is listed as selling new Oyster cards and top ups / Travelcards from the ticket office. Passenger machines can do top ups and add Travelcards. |
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Post by redexpress on Sept 13, 2017 13:43:26 GMT
Doesn't all non London Overground stations within the Oyster zone top up Oyster? I topped my Oyster up at Bickley last month and Brixton has the same machine as well. From passenger operated machines then yes. There have always been a limited number of NR ticket offices that could handle Oyster but the number has reduced as TOCs have changed their booking office machines and new models have not been able to work with Oyster. God knows why we've ended up with this mess but that's the nonsense you get with unco-ordinated TOCs. My original reference was to the ticket office at East Croydon NR. I haven't got an up to date version of the TfL ticketing handbooks I used to request via FOI and TfL don't put the Oyster ticket office stuff on their website. Heaven knows why not. I've dug out my 2016 documents from TfL. East Croydon is listed as selling new Oyster cards and top ups / Travelcards from the ticket office. Passenger machines can do top ups and add Travelcards. During my brief(*) time living in East Croydon I always used the Tramlink shop across the road to renew my Oyster Travelcard - limited opening hours but never any queues, unlike the ticket office at the NR station. In fact they seemed happy to have something to do for a change. At the time the ticket machines at the station didn't do Oyster so you couldn't avoid the queue for the ticket office. (*) - brief but still far, far too long  |
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