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Post by COBO on Sept 20, 2018 22:18:11 GMT
Will the cross rail West London changes go ahead in December 2019 or will they be postponed?
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Post by snoggle on Sept 20, 2018 22:34:53 GMT
Will the cross rail West London changes go ahead in December 2019 or will they be postponed? No one knows. Crossrail have no idea when the NR sections of route will be joined to the tunnel section. There are a lot of complex interractions between Crossrail, Heathrow Express, GWR and Network Rail for western services and how and when the timetable is recast. I suspect we may have to wait many months before we get any sense of certainty about how Crossrail services will be introduced. Bus changes will follow in its wake. I honestly cannot see the point of TfL introducing anything bus wise this December for East / SE London. West London is a very long way behind. Someone also needs to ask some questions about the plans to axe half the 427 given it's put over 1m pass jnys in the last two years. The 207 and 607 have had a bit of a drop last year but are still under pressure.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 20, 2018 22:44:36 GMT
Will the cross rail West London changes go ahead in December 2019 or will they be postponed? No one knows. Crossrail have no idea when the NR sections of route will be joined to the tunnel section. There are a lot of complex interractions between Crossrail, Heathrow Express, GWR and Network Rail for western services and how and when the timetable is recast. I suspect we may have to wait many months before we get any sense of certainty about how Crossrail services will be introduced. Bus changes will follow in its wake. I honestly cannot see the point of TfL introducing anything bus wise this December for East / SE London. West London is a very long way behind. Someone also needs to ask some questions about the plans to axe half the 427 given it's put over 1m pass jnys in the last two years. The 207 and 607 have had a bit of a drop last year but are still under pressure. I wonder what implications these have for the 104, 301 and 304. I imagine GAL might worst case scenario operate the current 104 as it is, but won't Arriva be expecting the 301 contract to start?
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Post by vjaska on Sept 20, 2018 23:48:38 GMT
No one knows. Crossrail have no idea when the NR sections of route will be joined to the tunnel section. There are a lot of complex interractions between Crossrail, Heathrow Express, GWR and Network Rail for western services and how and when the timetable is recast. I suspect we may have to wait many months before we get any sense of certainty about how Crossrail services will be introduced. Bus changes will follow in its wake. I honestly cannot see the point of TfL introducing anything bus wise this December for East / SE London. West London is a very long way behind. Someone also needs to ask some questions about the plans to axe half the 427 given it's put over 1m pass jnys in the last two years. The 207 and 607 have had a bit of a drop last year but are still under pressure. I wonder what implications these have for the 104, 301 and 304. I imagine GAL might worst case scenario operate the current 104 as it is, but won't Arriva be expecting the 301 contract to start? I personally still expect the changes to go ahead regardless of Crossrail's delay as I can't see TfL doing a U-turn this late in the day especially as they took their time announcing the tender results.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2018 6:59:42 GMT
I said it before I don't see how Crossrail has any impact on changes to routes 104,300,304. Ok maybe the 474 because of the link to City Airport but the others are more just local changes and could have gone ahead back in May.
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 21, 2018 8:48:58 GMT
104/304 make sense Crossrail or not. The 104 in its current form is a long U shaped route.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 21, 2018 12:07:36 GMT
I said it before I don't see how Crossrail has any impact on changes to routes 104,300,304. Ok maybe the 474 because of the link to City Airport but the others are more just local changes and could have gone ahead back in May. I have just looked back at the proposed changes. To my mind there is NO point at all in rerouting umpteen services to serve Custom House station where the reason for so doing, Crossrail, is not running. You are simply dumping people in the middle of nowhere and forcing them on the DLR or a second or third bus in order to reach the Jubilee Line. No one is going to thank TfL for doing that. If TfL want to introduce the 301 on its own then fine if they wish to throw money away. However if they try to bring it in alongside the 129, 180 and 472 proposals then, again, that's ridiculous because the underlying reason for potential travel pattern changes, Crossrail, will not be running and people will still want the old service patterns and frequencies in operation. Reducing links into North Greenwich from Thamesmead and Woolwich will go down like a lead balloon. Even in my most cynical moments I can't see TfL being quite so perverse as to deliberately worsen bus services while there is no "replacement" rail service. The political reaction, mostly from Labour councils, will not be good.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2018 14:38:40 GMT
I said it before I don't see how Crossrail has any impact on changes to routes 104,300,304. Ok maybe the 474 because of the link to City Airport but the others are more just local changes and could have gone ahead back in May. I have just looked back at the proposed changes. To my mind there is NO point at all in rerouting umpteen services to serve Custom House station where the reason for so doing, Crossrail, is not running. You are simply dumping people in the middle of nowhere and forcing them on the DLR or a second or third bus in order to reach the Jubilee Line. No one is going to thank TfL for doing that. If TfL want to introduce the 301 on its own then fine if they wish to throw money away. However if they try to bring it in alongside the 129, 180 and 472 proposals then, again, that's ridiculous because the underlying reason for potential travel pattern changes, Crossrail, will not be running and people will still want the old service patterns and frequencies in operation. Reducing links into North Greenwich from Thamesmead and Woolwich will go down like a lead balloon. Even in my most cynical moments I can't see TfL being quite so perverse as to deliberately worsen bus services while there is no "replacement" rail service. The political reaction, mostly from Labour councils, will not be good. I disagree about Custom House, I doubt the 304 will carry many people to the end of the route IMO. The 241 was being cut back because the 474 replaced it and managed fine for 4 years during Crossrail works ok it ran to Prince Regent but what a that two extra stops. I just can't get my head around the fact that they suddenly thought on the 8th December everyone's travel habits would change.
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Post by cl54 on Sept 21, 2018 15:30:52 GMT
I said it before I don't see how Crossrail has any impact on changes to routes 104,300,304. Ok maybe the 474 because of the link to City Airport but the others are more just local changes and could have gone ahead back in May. I have just looked back at the proposed changes. To my mind there is NO point at all in rerouting umpteen services to serve Custom House station where the reason for so doing, Crossrail, is not running. You are simply dumping people in the middle of nowhere and forcing them on the DLR or a second or third bus in order to reach the Jubilee Line. No one is going to thank TfL for doing that. If TfL want to introduce the 301 on its own then fine if they wish to throw money away. However if they try to bring it in alongside the 129, 180 and 472 proposals then, again, that's ridiculous because the underlying reason for potential travel pattern changes, Crossrail, will not be running and people will still want the old service patterns and frequencies in operation. Reducing links into North Greenwich from Thamesmead and Woolwich will go down like a lead balloon. Even in my most cynical moments I can't see TfL being quite so perverse as to deliberately worsen bus services while there is no "replacement" rail service. The political reaction, mostly from Labour councils, will not be good. Sending the 180 to North Greenwich seems to have little to do with Crossrail. The SE London changes are happening in December.
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Post by MoEnviro on Sept 21, 2018 15:43:34 GMT
cl54 I assume you can provide a source for that last claim, as if I am not mistaken TfL are yet to publicly confirm either way.
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Post by cl54 on Sept 21, 2018 16:42:10 GMT
cl54 I assume you can provide a source for that last claim, as if I am not mistaken TfL are yet to publicly confirm either way. They include change of operator routes so can't be avoided.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2018 18:20:08 GMT
cl54 I assume you can provide a source for that last claim, as if I am not mistaken TfL are yet to publicly confirm either way. They include change of operator routes so can't be avoided. Not the 180, 129 and 469. The 178 & 291 will have to go DD in December. The 472 will probably have to change in December, unless TfL are willing to pay for extra buses to keep the current routing. Same with the B11. The 301 can probably be deferred with no problems.
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Post by cl54 on Sept 21, 2018 19:33:47 GMT
They include change of operator routes so can't be avoided. Not the 180, 129 and 469. The 178 & 291 will have to go DD in December. The 472 will probably have to change in December, unless TfL are willing to pay for extra buses to keep the current routing. Same with the B11. The 301 can probably be deferred with no problems. The changes are a package. The 180 and 244 are swapping garages. The 472 service to North Greenwich is reduced so the 180 diversion is needed. The 178 and 291 change operator. We're almost at the end of September. TUPE consultation will need to progress.
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Post by busman on Sept 21, 2018 21:54:08 GMT
What. A. Mess.
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Post by DT 11 on Sept 22, 2018 4:55:03 GMT
I said it before I don't see how Crossrail has any impact on changes to routes 104,300,304. Ok maybe the 474 because of the link to City Airport but the others are more just local changes and could have gone ahead back in May. I have just looked back at the proposed changes. To my mind there is NO point at all in rerouting umpteen services to serve Custom House station where the reason for so doing, Crossrail, is not running. You are simply dumping people in the middle of nowhere and forcing them on the DLR or a second or third bus in order to reach the Jubilee Line. No one is going to thank TfL for doing that. If TfL want to introduce the 301 on its own then fine if they wish to throw money away. However if they try to bring it in alongside the 129, 180 and 472 proposals then, again, that's ridiculous because the underlying reason for potential travel pattern changes, Crossrail, will not be running and people will still want the old service patterns and frequencies in operation. Reducing links into North Greenwich from Thamesmead and Woolwich will go down like a lead balloon. Even in my most cynical moments I can't see TfL being quite so perverse as to deliberately worsen bus services while there is no "replacement" rail service. The political reaction, mostly from Labour councils, will not be good. In regards to the South London Changes you are wrong. The 301 is going to be well used even with the Crossrail delayed. The 472 reduction is the only downfall here, but TFL will just use the 301 as an excuse and hopper fare. The 301 is going to be faster than the 229 to Abbey Wood & Thamesmead & the 401 to Thamesmead. There will be a lot of people using this service probably within 2 months of it being the introduced. The 472 is needed and will assist the 229 which is pretty much full up before you even reach the Boiler House.
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