Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 12:27:08 GMT
Will be weird not seeing the 180 in Lewisham, but at least I'll have the 129 to the 02 arena along with the 108.
Wonder if these changes will happen soon?
Why is the 472 being cut?
|
|
|
Post by DT 11 on Nov 29, 2018 12:52:52 GMT
Results / Proposals updated 27 Nov consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/elizabeth-line/We will go ahead with the changes as consulted on for routes 129, 161, 178, 291, 469, 472 and B11. We will also be implementing the changes to route 180 and the introduction of route 301. However, following the consultation responses and further review, the changes to these routes will go ahead with the following alterations: •Route 180 will be run between Erith Quarry and North Greenwich, but will be rerouted between Charlton and North Greenwich via Bugsby’s Way instead of via Peartree Way •Route 301 will be introduced between Bexleyheath and Woolwich. However it will use double deck buses and will run via Woolwich Road and New Road instead of via Knee Hill We will not be converting route 244 to double deck operation at this time. So what’s new? For me this update fails to answer the key question of when these changes will actually take place “We will be introducing these changes in line with the phased opening of the Elizabeth line or in response to wider bus network changes.....” Seems TfL have left this open to their own short term decision making. Personally I’m actually excited about the 180 change as it means I will have a direct bus from my area to the O2 and Bugsby’s Way. That’s no consolation to passengers between Plumstead and Greenwich who will have to cram onto a 177. We are actually getting a bus cut between Woolwich and Greenwich which is crazy considering the use levels, but that’s a sign of the times. Looking forward to seeing deckers on the 291 carrying fresh air in the evenings and weekday daytime. I guess it was too much for TfL to simply increase Monday to Saturday peak frequencies to meet demand. With the 291 at least the capacity will be there whenever its needed. With all these cutbacks the more routes using double deckers the better.
|
|
|
Post by busman on Nov 29, 2018 13:00:18 GMT
Will be weird not seeing the 180 in Lewisham, but at least I'll have the 129 to the 02 arena along with the 108. Wonder if these changes will happen soon? Why is the 472 being cut? The 472 is being cut as the 301 will add extra capacity between Abbey Wood and Woolwich. The 180 will now duplicate the 472 between Woolwich and North Greenwich, which wasn’t proposed initially. Whether the Charlton to North Greenwich extras continue to run remains to be seen. In theory they should do as that demand will not be impacted by the Lizzie Line.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 13:02:40 GMT
Will be weird not seeing the 180 in Lewisham, but at least I'll have the 129 to the 02 arena along with the 108. Wonder if these changes will happen soon? Why is the 472 being cut? The 472 is being cut as the 301 will add extra capacity between Abbey Wood and Woolwich. The 180 will now duplicate the 472 between Woolwich and North Greenwich, which wasn’t proposed initially. Whether the Charlton to North Greenwich extras continue to run remains to be seen. In theory they should do as that demand will not be impacted by the Lizzie Line. By how much will the route be reduced by in minutes?
|
|
|
Post by busman on Nov 29, 2018 13:17:32 GMT
So what’s new? For me this update fails to answer the key question of when these changes will actually take place “We will be introducing these changes in line with the phased opening of the Elizabeth line or in response to wider bus network changes.....” Seems TfL have left this open to their own short term decision making. Personally I’m actually excited about the 180 change as it means I will have a direct bus from my area to the O2 and Bugsby’s Way. That’s no consolation to passengers between Plumstead and Greenwich who will have to cram onto a 177. We are actually getting a bus cut between Woolwich and Greenwich which is crazy considering the use levels, but that’s a sign of the times. Looking forward to seeing deckers on the 291 carrying fresh air in the evenings and weekday daytime. I guess it was too much for TfL to simply increase Monday to Saturday peak frequencies to meet demand. With the 291 at least the capacity will be there whenever its needed. With all these cutbacks the more routes using double deckers the better. Initially yes, but then when TfL reduces the frequency of deckers to “meet demand” we will see less people use the bus due to the increased journey times. All the 291 needed was additional with flow peak journeys. I agree with what Sid said earlier - for this specific case introducing deckers on the 291 is a problem looking for a solution.
|
|
|
Post by DT 11 on Nov 29, 2018 13:26:35 GMT
With the 291 at least the capacity will be there whenever its needed. With all these cutbacks the more routes using double deckers the better. Initially yes, but then when TfL reduces the frequency of deckers to “meet demand” we will see less people use the bus due to the increased journey times. All the 291 needed was additional with flow peak journeys. I agree with what Sid said earlier - for this specific case introducing deckers on the 291 is a problem looking for a solution. Point taken, but TFL won’t do that because involves paying for more buses which they are not willing to do. If the 291 ended up an every 12 minutes service off peak I wouldn’t be surprised. Many routes are quieter off peak anyways.
|
|
|
Post by busman on Nov 29, 2018 13:37:56 GMT
Initially yes, but then when TfL reduces the frequency of deckers to “meet demand” we will see less people use the bus due to the increased journey times. All the 291 needed was additional with flow peak journeys. I agree with what Sid said earlier - for this specific case introducing deckers on the 291 is a problem looking for a solution. Point taken, but TFL won’t do that because involves paying for more buses which they are not willing to do. If the 291 ended up an every 12 minutes service off peak I wouldn’t be surprised. Many routes are quieter off peak anyways. TfL seemed to find extra cash to increase the frequency on the 112, so there is no obvious reason whyTfL can’t fund 2 extra single deckers to run between Woolwich and Woodlands Estate during peaks, it’s just that they have chosen not to do that.
|
|
|
Post by busman on Nov 29, 2018 13:43:05 GMT
The 472 is being cut as the 301 will add extra capacity between Abbey Wood and Woolwich. The 180 will now duplicate the 472 between Woolwich and North Greenwich, which wasn’t proposed initially. Whether the Charlton to North Greenwich extras continue to run remains to be seen. In theory they should do as that demand will not be impacted by the Lizzie Line. By how much will the route be reduced by in minutes? The details are here: consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/83558683/The 472 is proposed to be reduced from 12 bph to 7.5bph. A reduction of 4.5bph. 301 - 5bph 180 - 6bph I wouldn’t rely on those figures though as TfL have current form of changing proposed frequencies closer to the implementation date.
|
|
|
Post by snowman on Nov 29, 2018 15:24:34 GMT
By how much will the route be reduced by in minutes? The details are here: consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/83558683/The 472 is proposed to be reduced from 12 bph to 7.5bph. A reduction of 4.5bph. 301 - 5bph 180 - 6bph I wouldn’t rely on those figures though as TfL have current form of changing proposed frequencies closer to the implementation date. Also TfL often only quote one frequency eg inter-peak Mon-Fri, or peak (whatever suits them, to look best, unfortunately it is often smoke and mirrors to create helpful illusion) Then they have completely different frequencies at weekends, and after about 19:30 and sometimes tweak the off-peak and peak times, and in recent times have lowered peak frequencies, but added a few journeys in one direction at busiest peak time. Effect is mileage operated changes by different percentage.
|
|
|
Post by busman on Nov 29, 2018 16:32:16 GMT
So... 129: extended from Greenwich to Lewisham (replacing route 180)
161: diverted northbound via Woolwich town centre
178: double-decking
180: diverted to terminate at North Greenwich instead of Lewisham; also extended from Belvedere to Erith Quarry
291: double-decking
301: NEW ROUTE from Bexleyheath to Woolwich via Abbey Wood and Thamesmead
469: diverted between Abbey Wood and Belvedere via Woolwich Road
472: extended from Thamesmead to Abbey Wood
B11: cut back from Thamesmead to South Thamesmead
Won't be happening 244: double-decking
Pretty much with the 161, 178 & 291 changes happening this month (or happened in the case of the 161). The 244 is rumoured to convert further down the line and its interesting that MG's buses have received 244 blinds though I'm not linking the two together as BX double deckers such as the T's & PVL's also had 244 on their blind sets. I don’t think 161 change to run both ways via John Wilson Street has happened yet. Buses towards North Greenwich are still running via Vincent Road last time I checked. Unless that has changed very recently. I think it would be better if the 161 ran via Woolwich Road, Burrage Road and Vincent Road in both directions so it could better serve the town centre and the 3 rail stations.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Nov 29, 2018 17:45:39 GMT
Initially yes, but then when TfL reduces the frequency of deckers to “meet demand” we will see less people use the bus due to the increased journey times. All the 291 needed was additional with flow peak journeys. I agree with what Sid said earlier - for this specific case introducing deckers on the 291 is a problem looking for a solution. Point taken, but TFL won’t do that because involves paying for more buses which they are not willing to do. If the 291 ended up an every 12 minutes service off peak I wouldn’t be surprised. Many routes are quieter off peak anyways. Exactly - makes more sense to go decker than increasing the frequency which would only lead to buses getting stuck along the solo section where the roads are quite narrow.
|
|
|
Post by sid on Nov 29, 2018 17:55:59 GMT
Point taken, but TFL won’t do that because involves paying for more buses which they are not willing to do. If the 291 ended up an every 12 minutes service off peak I wouldn’t be surprised. Many routes are quieter off peak anyways. Exactly - makes more sense to go decker than increasing the frequency which would only lead to buses getting stuck along the solo section where the roads are quite narrow. The frequency only needs to be increased at peak times and larger double deckers are obviously at greater risk of getting stuck.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Nov 29, 2018 17:57:06 GMT
Exactly - makes more sense to go decker than increasing the frequency which would only lead to buses getting stuck along the solo section where the roads are quite narrow. The frequency only needs to be increased at peak times and larger double deckers are obviously at greater risk of getting stuck. Yes but there will be less buses on route because it’s double decker so it actually evens itself out.
|
|
|
Post by lonmark on Feb 7, 2019 15:47:25 GMT
report from Londonbusroutes.net say
From Saturday 23rd Feb.
Route 486 will be run
Every 10 minutes during Monday to Friday (with TWO AM peaks hour toward North Greenwich). Every 12 minutes during Saturday. Every 15 minutes during the evenings and all day Sunday.
|
|
|
Post by cl54 on Feb 21, 2019 5:23:42 GMT
TfL did a presentation to Greenwich Council recently.
The 472 changes will not happen until the Elizabeth line starts running.
No mention of the 180 diversion.
|
|