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Post by snoggle on Aug 30, 2017 18:44:58 GMT
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Post by ServerKing on Aug 30, 2017 19:22:42 GMT
Youth Panel will achieve as much as a talent scout at West Ham United  They will ask for WiFi, get shouted down, ask for buses to look as cool as the Kingston Uni shuttles, get shouted down...  It's as effective as the branding on the sides of a 462 bus, IMHO... hopefully they'll send more than one tweet out, but TfL seem to have lost their advertising mojo... there needs to be a decent carrot to tempt people to even bother... |
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Post by arj on Aug 30, 2017 19:36:12 GMT
Youth Panel will achieve as much as a talent scout at West Ham United They will ask for WiFi, get shouted down, ask for buses to look as cool as the Kingston Uni shuttles, get shouted down... It's as effective as the branding on the sides of a 462 bus, IMHO... hopefully they'll send more than one tweet out, but TfL seem to have lost their advertising mojo... there needs to be a decent carrot to tempt people to even bother... You're not wrong. I remember when they came in to my school a couple of years back and all everyone asked for was frequency increases and buses to be timed exactly for when school finishes. Ah so entitled some of my peers are. I choose not to point out the various issues of this. 1. They simply can't add more buses when there is a set PVR. Would they like to pay for these new buses? 2. Timetabling and route regulation doesn't allow for exactly catering for their needs 3. The world doesn't revolve around you  Anyway, they wouldn't understand any of that. I'm not too sure how many forum member's fit into that age bracket anyway; I would be reassured to know I'm not alone Edit: our school is along one bus route with about x12 mins frequencies and no 6xx route. 12 minutes isn't going to kill anyone. It could be a lot worse- if it was single decker for example! |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 30, 2017 19:43:20 GMT
Youth Panel will achieve as much as a talent scout at West Ham United They will ask for WiFi, get shouted down, ask for buses to look as cool as the Kingston Uni shuttles, get shouted down... It's as effective as the branding on the sides of a 462 bus, IMHO... hopefully they'll send more than one tweet out, but TfL seem to have lost their advertising mojo... there needs to be a decent carrot to tempt people to even bother... You're not wrong. I remember when they came in to my school a couple of years back and all everyone asked for was frequency increases and buses to be timed exactly for when school finishes. Ah so entitled some of my peers are. I choose not to point out the various issues of this. 1. They simply can't add more buses when there is a set PVR 2. Timetabling and route regulation doesn't allow for exactly catering for their needs 3. The world doesn't revolve around you Anyway, they wouldn't understand any of that. I'm not too sure how many forum member's fit into that age bracket anyway; I would be reassured to know I'm not alone Edit: our school is along one bus route with about x12 mins frequencies and no 6xx route. 12 minutes isn't going to kill anyone. It could be a lot worse- if it was single decker for example! When they visited my school my peers asked for a more frequent 86, baring in mind that runs around every 5 minutes at school kicking out time and another school route which had journeys going towards Stratford instead Romford and Harold Hill. I do fit into that age bracket, but am very skeptical about whether I should consider applying. This looks more like an exercise so TfL can actually show off that they involve young people rather than actually genuinely asking suggestions that will be properly taken on board, mainly because as you said a lot of the younger people will want unrealistic ideas to come to fruition and that could drown out any potential sensible ideas from being put through. |
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Post by snoggle on Aug 30, 2017 22:07:40 GMT
You're not wrong. I remember when they came in to my school a couple of years back and all everyone asked for was frequency increases and buses to be timed exactly for when school finishes. Ah so entitled some of my peers are. I choose not to point out the various issues of this. 1. They simply can't add more buses when there is a set PVR 2. Timetabling and route regulation doesn't allow for exactly catering for their needs 3. The world doesn't revolve around you Anyway, they wouldn't understand any of that. I'm not too sure how many forum member's fit into that age bracket anyway; I would be reassured to know I'm not alone Edit: our school is along one bus route with about x12 mins frequencies and no 6xx route. 12 minutes isn't going to kill anyone. It could be a lot worse- if it was single decker for example! When they visited my school my peers asked for a more frequent 86, baring in mind that runs around every 5 minutes at school kicking out time and another school route which had journeys going towards Stratford instead Romford and Harold Hill. I do fit into that age bracket, but am very skeptical about whether I should consider applying. This looks more like an exercise so TfL can actually show off that they involve young people rather than actually genuinely asking suggestions that will be properly taken on board, mainly because as you said a lot of the younger people will want unrealistic ideas to come to fruition and that could drown out any potential sensible ideas from being put through. Here's a bit of devil's advocate. Completely understand why you express concern about "wild ideas" being dismissed by TfL. After all most ideas that they get from the public will be a bit wacky and possibly ill defined. However people with some knowledge and understanding are actually much harder to dismiss because you have the facts and info to challenge and challenge and challenge and put people on the spot. In a forum type environment TfL will find it hard to dismiss a rational argument as other forum members will most likely recognise that what is being said has merit and won't like being fobbed off. I also would not compare a formal forum of people with TfL turning up to address a year of pupils in a school in one meeting. It's not the same thing at all. If people with knowledge don't volunteer and put forward rational ideas and concepts nothing will ever change. If nothing else the experience of being on a forum or committee is actually good practice for the work place or even for voluntary work (depending on what people get involved in later in life). I've no axe to grind here btw - I just thought that we have a fair number of bright enthusiastic younger members who might fancy a go at something different to help build their experience and also give them exposure to a range of ideas and plans that TfL might be considering as well as interracting with their peers. |
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Post by COBO on Aug 30, 2017 22:23:04 GMT
Oh what a shame I'm way too old for this.
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Post by thesquirrels on Aug 30, 2017 22:27:42 GMT
This is something I would have enjoyed taking part in a few years ago. Though this is possibly a view I hold with the gift of hindsight - I spent a lot of my early 20s complaining to a wide audience about the conditions my social landlord was keeping the local estate/housing stock in without making any active effort to engage directly with the people responsible for making it right, much to the consternation of a borough councillor who was picking up the baton for me on my behalf and taking things forward as a board member on said RSL. Tl:dr: that disconnect can be a serious thing, your voice is valid at any age, and any opportunity to engage should be taken - it might look like a box-ticking exercise but you're still within hearing distance of those who are obligated to listen and implement. Know and use that option well.
Do the younger people know what "paging" is?
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Post by Alex on Aug 30, 2017 22:33:23 GMT
I must admit, I do see both sides of this - I can understand where people might be skeptical but also I think if someone is interested it's well worth getting involved. I think we should at least give the initiative a chance first. Ok I get the 'wacky ideas' angle but I'm guessing there would be real meetings and discussions with real people involved along the way on this - a great opportunity to ask some questions and learn a bit about the trade  Now, I can't speak for all of TfL, but I get the impression this wouldn't just be about the buses - there would be Underground, Overground, Crossrail and bus angles covered, even the Air Line might have someone involved! Certainly the bit I know (in the organisation) wouldn't dismiss 'wacky ideas' just like that. At the end of the day it's a 'one size fits all' situation and the company will listen to ideas and give reasoning and feedback on them. If people were laughed down or nothing was explained properly the company reputation would be damaged, and it's not a nice way of doing things anyway. If it's opened up to the public I imagine it would all be on laymans terms. As forumers we know tube is LUL, Crossrail MTR, Overground Arriva etc, but it is well known that for most members of the public, the TfL brand and anything involved with it fits into one unit. With this in mind I think the youth forum would be quite accessible and all levels of discussion would be dealt with professionally. Add to this, 12 - 25 is a huge age range in terms of maturity so I think the organisers would be expecting a wide range of topics! I would agree with Snoggle, members here would have a massive head start against more 'regular' (want of a better term ) participants, even if not much happens it would be a great chance to have a chat and gain some knowledge of what goes on. If this sort of thing was going on when I was at school, I'd be all over it  |
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Post by ServerKing on Aug 30, 2017 22:46:47 GMT
I must admit, I do see both sides of this - I can understand where people might be skeptical but also I think if someone is interested it's well worth getting involved. I think we should at least give the initiative a chance first. Ok I get the 'wacky ideas' angle but I'm guessing there would be real meetings and discussions with real people involved along the way on this - a great opportunity to ask some questions and learn a bit about the trade Now, I can't speak for all of TfL, but I get the impression this wouldn't just be about the buses - there would be Underground, Overground, Crossrail and bus angles covered, even the Air Line might have someone involved! Certainly the bit I know (in the organisation) wouldn't dismiss 'wacky ideas' just like that. At the end of the day it's a 'one size fits all' situation and the company will listen to ideas and give reasoning and feedback on them. If people were laughed down or nothing was explained properly the company reputation would be damaged, and it's not a nice way of doing things anyway. If it's opened up to the public I imagine it would all be on laymans terms. As forumers we know tube is LUL, Crossrail MTR, Overground Arriva etc, but it is well known that for most members of the public, the TfL brand and anything involved with it fits into one unit. With this in mind I think the youth forum would be quite accessible and all levels of discussion would be dealt with professionally. Add to this, 12 - 25 is a huge age range in terms of maturity so I think the organisers would be expecting a wide range of topics! I would agree with Snoggle, members here would have a massive head start against more 'regular' (want of a better term ) participants, even if not much happens it would be a great chance to have a chat and gain some knowledge of what goes on. If this sort of thing was going on when I was at school, I'd be all over it ^^This^^  I couldn't have put it better myself. It will be too generic, and probably looking at all that they do, and not just buses. Having worked in TfL (Underground) you can easily disappear amongst the many and this will more likely be a disingenuous form of internship programme than anything else of value. I want £20k to start, staff pass etc, something that would tempt me away from real vacancies if I was considering this role. An advertising and branding role in the bus division is what's needed, to capture the creativity of the 90s again  |
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Post by Alex on Aug 30, 2017 22:53:10 GMT
It will be too generic, and probably looking at all that they do, and not just buses. Yes indeed, on first thoughts I see it in the same vein as 'meet the manager' or something similar, and maybe working onto things from there. Happy to be proved wrong though. I'd say that the youth angle and getting people interested is important, we always need the right people to be the public transport custodians of the future I know what you mean about the (early) 1990s...... |
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Post by snoggle on Aug 30, 2017 22:58:42 GMT
I must admit, I do see both sides of this - I can understand where people might be skeptical but also I think if someone is interested it's well worth getting involved. I think we should at least give the initiative a chance first. Ok I get the 'wacky ideas' angle but I'm guessing there would be real meetings and discussions with real people involved along the way on this - a great opportunity to ask some questions and learn a bit about the trade Now, I can't speak for all of TfL, but I get the impression this wouldn't just be about the buses - there would be Underground, Overground, Crossrail and bus angles covered, even the Air Line might have someone involved! Certainly the bit I know (in the organisation) wouldn't dismiss 'wacky ideas' just like that. At the end of the day it's a 'one size fits all' situation and the company will listen to ideas and give reasoning and feedback on them. If people were laughed down or nothing was explained properly the company reputation would be damaged, and it's not a nice way of doing things anyway. If it's opened up to the public I imagine it would all be on laymans terms. As forumers we know tube is LUL, Crossrail MTR, Overground Arriva etc, but it is well known that for most members of the public, the TfL brand and anything involved with it fits into one unit. With this in mind I think the youth forum would be quite accessible and all levels of discussion would be dealt with professionally. Add to this, 12 - 25 is a huge age range in terms of maturity so I think the organisers would be expecting a wide range of topics! I would agree with Snoggle, members here would have a massive head start against more 'regular' (want of a better term ) participants, even if not much happens it would be a great chance to have a chat and gain some knowledge of what goes on. If this sort of thing was going on when I was at school, I'd be all over it I would just say that it may well go well beyond the modes. There may be all sorts of things like planning, development, role of technology, emerging transit modes, roads, cycling, walking, financial stuff, even stuff like ensuring equal treatment for different groups of passengers. Many younger people have far clearer and more open views on these sorts of things than those of us who grew up in different times and places (seen that manifest itself on this forum more than once). There are quite a lot of risks around the future of transport in London and how people will travel given more choice and changing expectations. Younger minds are more likely to be able express their aspirations and expectations from a more "up to date" prospect than boring gits like me who are not plugged into their smartphone etc every nanosecond of the day. They may see things that the rest of us can't. Experience tells me that you do need a range of people and mindsets to deliver anything (look up Belbin team types to see what I mean in the context of workplace teams). People change their belbin role over time. I'd expect the Youth Forum to have a spread of mindsets and knowledge. |
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Post by YY13VKP on Aug 30, 2017 23:16:11 GMT
Hmmm...this might go down well for my UCAS personal statement. Might give this a go.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 31, 2017 0:25:46 GMT
I'd of probably had a go at this but sadly, it's restricted to a particular age group so I'm not eligible  - I'd of badgered them for their thoughts on creating bus only access into Acre Lane from Brixton Road & Coldharbour Lane for Clapham bound buses saving the need for the 35, 355 & P5 having to swing around all of the St. Matthew's Church one way system |
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Post by COBO on Aug 31, 2017 1:23:48 GMT
Maybe TfL should create something similar for bus or train enthusiast aged 25 +.
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Post by mondraker275 on Aug 31, 2017 15:16:23 GMT
As mentioned, I would expect that the people that bother to apply and go through the process and end up being selected are going to make very good contributions. I think the panel is a very good idea and I also think individuals will benefit from the experience greatly.
I will apply after I double check with TfL that there is a typo and its actually the age 12 + 25.
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so stop worrying. 
It's as effective as the branding on the sides of a 462 bus, IMHO... hopefully they'll send more than one tweet out, but TfL seem to have lost their advertising mojo... there needs to be a decent carrot to tempt people to even bother... 
- I'd of badgered them for their thoughts on creating bus only access into Acre Lane from Brixton Road & Coldharbour Lane for Clapham bound buses saving the need for the 35, 355 & P5 having to swing around all of the St. Matthew's Church one way system 