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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 6, 2017 16:23:35 GMT
I like the idea of the 10/23 as it maintains a link from the current 23 to the West end rather then Paddington and Lancaster Gate. Looks like the Wembley extension/452 diversion is cancelled. I doubt TFL will have the 10 and 23 running between Paddington and Ladbroke Grove.
The 113 and 159 quite logical and expected.
I think the Marble Arch terminus of 7 and 94 is frankly a cop out and makes particularly the 94 an almost pointless route. 31 to Acton Green and extend the 274 to Notting Hill Gate (it has little purpose just to Lancaster Gate) now it is going DD.
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Post by COBO on Nov 6, 2017 16:29:08 GMT
Why do you need to ‘decide’ the route number of the “10/23 amalgamation”? Just call it the 10. You chopped and changed the 13, this is no different. The 23 becomes the Wembley Park - Lancaster Gate route as planned. Simples. [/OCD] I wonder what is happening with the 452 proposals if the 10 is taking its place. Have I missed a change of plan? So TfL is still sending the 23 to Wembley?
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 6, 2017 16:40:55 GMT
According to TFL the 10/23 idea replaces the original plans so it looks to be cancelled.
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 6, 2017 17:37:43 GMT
If stand space at Marble is an issue maybe the 137 and 94 could join and run as Streatham Hill to Shepherds Bush with the 31 to Acton Green.
With only the 159 moving out they now need space for the 7, 30, 137, 94 and 98 and 189 with the 113 likely standing there aswell. Also potentially at a later stage the 2 and 74 aswell.
No wonder the U shape 10/23 us proposed rather then cutting both to Marble Arch.
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Post by COBO on Nov 6, 2017 17:40:51 GMT
According to TFL the 10/23 idea replaces the original plans so it looks to be cancelled. That's very disappointing to hear. I was sceptical at first but now it looks like a good idea. This now leaves the 18 without any assistance.
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Post by routew15 on Nov 6, 2017 17:56:40 GMT
For something that is so "carefully considered" by TfL why is there no commentary about the replacement of route 10 between Marble Arch and Kings Cross via Russell Square? To mention the 10 would be to start the same issues that occured with the 13/82. I note that they have gone as far as to upload a map of proposed routes to serve the area showing the new Hammersmith- Westbourne Park route only as “TBC”.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 6, 2017 17:58:35 GMT
Why do you need to ‘decide’ the route number of the “10/23 amalgamation”? Just call it the 10. You chopped and changed the 13, this is no different. The 23 becomes the Wembley Park - Lancaster Gate route as planned. Simples. [/OCD] I wonder what is happening with the 452 proposals if the 10 is taking its place. Have I missed a change of plan? I suspect TfL are concerned not to get embroiled in another long running debate over route numbers hence the hesitation. I also think we have a "moving feast" here where these proposals are clearly only a stepping stone. Several elements of what is being proposed are clearly incompatible with the scheduled later phases of pedestrianisation so I suspect little of what is being planned now will last very long. TfL clearly are struggling to manage flows and particularly the volumes of routes scheduled to terminate at Marble Arch. The same issues will apply at TCR where I suspect the struggle is vastly worse than at Marble Arch. I suspect the 23 / 452 swap over at Westbourne Park is dead as is any plan to add an extra route to Wembley. To my simple mind it would make a little more sense to actually link the 10 and 98 to give a Willesden to Hammersmith service. OK it's a long way round for a short cut but it would remove one high frequency terminating route at Marble Arch and the frequencies are reasonably compatible. I'd run the 23 into Portman Square but via Seymour St from Edgware Road. I suspect the well to do residents of Seymour St would not like buses down there (there is a coach ban in place) but they may have no choice once the west end of Oxford St is paved over. I'd prefer the 23 to get as far as Oxford Circus via Wigmore St but clearly that's not an option as TfL are trying hard to minimise volumes using this road. Even more ideally the 7 would also reach Oxford Circus the same way but I'm clearly in the land of "clouds and cuckoos" for having such dangerous thoughts.
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Post by routew15 on Nov 6, 2017 18:03:12 GMT
If stand space at Marble is an issue maybe the 137 and 94 could join and run as Streatham Hill to Shepherds Bush with the 31 to Acton Green. With only the 159 moving out they now need space for the 7, 30, 137, 94 and 98 and 189 with the 113 likely standing there aswell. Also potentially at a later stage the 2 and 74 aswell. No wonder the U shape 10/23 us proposed rather then cutting both to Marble Arch. The 148 already supports the 94 to Shepherds Bush. I dont think that having the 94 corridor run only to Shepherds Bush is a good idea there are quite a few through journeys that would be disrupted. I do not see why the 94 is not able to run to Portman Square to allow connection onto Oxford Street however i guess more future planning has gone into 94 than the 390
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Post by routew15 on Nov 6, 2017 18:19:07 GMT
Even more ideally the 7 would also reach Oxford Circus the same way but I'm clearly in the land of "clouds and cuckoos" for having such dangerous thoughts. If TfLs predictions on modal shift are correct and these OSW plans go ahead, then the only thing that sounds like it has a chance at savingthe patronage on the 7 is this idea. If both of the aforementioned changes take place then it sounds like the 7 maybe better off as a single decker route on a high frequency.
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 6, 2017 18:41:37 GMT
With the 23 likely continuing from the Portobello area to Marble Arch (same as the 7) I wonder if a DD conversion plus maybe an extra journey each way on the 70 could see the 7 withdrawn completely. Capacity between East Acton would probably suffice on an upgraded 70 with the hopper fare allowing free transfer to the 23 to continue to Marble Arch. Would certainly save a route from Marble Arch stand space.
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Post by Arriva London Explorer on Nov 6, 2017 19:36:34 GMT
I have issues here I need to say: I think 10/23 is a good propsal but will people agree with it I do since they are proposing to pedestrianised Oxford STREET West due to our growing population.
I think they might as well merge the 476 and 73 into one route to save carbon emissions.
They could scrap the 94 and either make the 31 or 316 or C1 reroute and terminate at Acton green.
I'm worried that there not enough bus stand for 159 and 7
Where near self ridge would the bus stand be for 114 might as well terminate at Baker Street.
159 might as well terminate at Tranflgar square if they want to reduce Co2 around Oxford Street so as the 73 to Tottenham Court Road
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Post by ServerKing on Nov 6, 2017 19:55:00 GMT
Wigmore Street, Margaret Street etc., will struggle with buses, I've seen just today the 25's and 73's struggle just to get back onto Oxford Street out of Great Portland Street and the tiny back roads not really expecting a decker to use them And once Brexit kicks in, and the crowds dry up after having pedestrianized the length of Oxford Street, and it becomes as busy as Brentford on Good Friday, is there a Plan B? Arriva London Explorer I think merging the 476/73 would be good, I'd love to see operators share a route for once, a PVR split down the middle Time to re-number our bus routes to get rid of gaps and to make it make a little more sense for newcomers / tourists (E3 bus, but no E4, W3 bus but no W2 or W1 )
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Post by vjaska on Nov 6, 2017 20:14:07 GMT
I have issues here I need to say: I think 10/23 is a good propsal but will people agree with it I do since they are proposing to pedestrianised Oxford STREET West due to our growing population. I think they might as well merge the 476 and 73 into one route to save carbon emissions. They could scrap the 94 and either make the 31 or 316 or C1 reroute and terminate at Acton green. I'm worried that there not enough bus stand for 159 and 7 Where near self ridge would the bus stand be for 114 might as well terminate at Baker Street. 159 might as well terminate at Tranflgar square if they want to reduce Co2 around Oxford Street so as the 73 to Tottenham Court Road Oxford Street is being pedestrianised to supposedly create an enhanced shopping experience - it has nothing to do with a growing population. Routes don’t get cut back because of Co2 emissions - not only that but most buses in Central London are either hybrid, electric or hydrogen.
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Post by Arriva London Explorer on Nov 6, 2017 20:16:00 GMT
I have issues here I need to say: I think 10/23 is a good propsal but will people agree with it I do since they are proposing to pedestrianised Oxford STREET West due to our growing population. I think they might as well merge the 476 and 73 into one route to save carbon emissions. They could scrap the 94 and either make the 31 or 316 or C1 reroute and terminate at Acton green. I'm worried that there not enough bus stand for 159 and 7 Where near self ridge would the bus stand be for 114 might as well terminate at Baker Street. 159 might as well terminate at Tranflgar square if they want to reduce Co2 around Oxford Street so as the 73 to Tottenham Court Road Oxford Street is being pedestrianised to supposedly create an enhanced shopping experience - it has nothing to do with a growing population. Routes don’t get cut back because of Co2 emissions - not only that but most buses in Central London are either hybrid, electric or hydrogen. I know that but they are focusing on air/noise pollution, traffic overcrowding etc.
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Post by DT 11 on Nov 6, 2017 20:17:55 GMT
The consultation has been released to pedestrianise Oxford Street consultations.tfl.gov.uk/roads/oxford-street/#Buses
Oxford Circus to Selfridges pedestrianised by Dec 2018 Oxford Circus to TCR pedestrianised by Dec 2019 Selfridges to Marble Arch pedestrianised post 2020
For the buses it would mean: 7, 94 and 98 would be cut back to Marble Arch 113 cut back to Selfridges 159 cut back to Oxford Circus
139 & 390 diverted via Wigmore Street and Henrietta Place
10 & 23 merged to run as a new route from Hammersmith to Westbourne Park
Very short term vision used by TfL (no surprise) as there is no plan for a further re-routed 390 when OC to TCR is pedestrianised. I cannot see a logical route for it east of Oxford Circus area. Nice Proof reading "We will decide later would route number to assign to this new route" . "139 West Hampstead - Waterloo". I believe it is now Golders Green! Marble Arch Stand is going to be busier as well as Oxford Circus Stand. In regards to the 113 there was no point re-routing it to Marble Arch replacing the 189. I thought it was pointless when these changes happened earlier this year. 10/23 so pretty much the 10 is withdrawn between King's Cross and March Arch and extended to Westbourne Park. 73 & 390 takes everyone. The 23 is already in consultation to be re-routed. Would be interesting to know what replaces the Russell Square section of the 10. The 7 just gets even shorter. No surprise to the 7 & 98 last stop at the top of Edgware Road. 94 & 159 no surprises, 94 terminates at the top of Bayswater Road. No new links really made just 8 routes standing at Marble Arch.
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