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Post by snowman on Jun 13, 2018 10:08:42 GMT
The London Assembly questioned top TfL officials yesterday 12/6/18 and one of the more suprising answers was Elizabeth line revenues
TfL basically said expecting income from fares to be 70% transfers from other modes / lines so no financial gain. Other 30% is expected to be extra revenue from new journeys (and this forms a big chunk of plan to sort the budget deficit)
Maybe its just me, but I was surprised they expect that many extra paying journeys (an extra journey using a travelcard is not extra income). Modal shift (to easier or faster journeys I get), but why would thousands per day suddenly make so many new additional journeys that they don't currently need.
Can anyone explain ?
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Post by snoggle on Jun 13, 2018 10:28:04 GMT
The London Assembly questioned top TfL officials yesterday 12/6/18 and one of the more suprising answers was Elizabeth line revenues TfL basically said expecting income from fares to be 70% transfers from other modes / lines so no financial gain. Other 30% is expected to be extra revenue from new journeys (and this forms a big chunk of plan to sort the budget deficit) Maybe its just me, but I was surprised they expect that many extra paying journeys (an extra journey using a travelcard is not extra income). Modal shift (to easier or faster journeys I get), but why would thousands per day suddenly make so many new additional journeys that they don't currently need. Can anyone explain ? I haven't seen the Assembly session yet. I can only assume that TfL's modelling assumes that the faster journey times on some links will drive more ridership. It's just the rail version of high frequency on bus services typically driving more ridership. It is worth noting that if you get modal transfer from bus to Crossrail, as TfL expect, you get two effects. You DO get incremental revenue (rail fares higher than bus, also rail caps higher than bus ones) and the opportunity to cut bus services. I don't expect you will get 30% extra new trips in 2018/19 but you may well achieve that in 2020/21 when the full service is in place with much higher frequencies and more convenient through services from some destinations which could generate new trips or modal transfer from *cars*. It isn't just Gtr London - TfL will get extra money from trips generated in Berkshire for example. I'm not saying that's a full or correct explanation but I can see where TfL may be coming from. 30% is still quite a heroic number though and it won't be immediate. It will build over several years over and above the phased service build up.
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Post by snoggle on Jun 15, 2018 16:09:19 GMT
Had another visit to Farringdon station today - probably the last public visit before it opens. The tour included the Western ticket hall by Farringdon station and also a trek down to platform level. In the ticket hall the interior finishes have started to be applied and the escalators are now installed but not in a workable state for public use. The "arty" patterned and the lustred metal panels are also being fitted. I still reckon it's going to be tight given lighting and other things aren't fully working yet - not sure that can be finished and signed over to the operators in 2-3 months. Down at platform level it was rather more complete. This was my first view of the Central London tunnel level and the spaces are big and platforms are very long although we were confined to a short section of them. The light coloured stone panels which line the tunnels help create a "bright space" but I still think the cleaning regime is going to be difficult. Signs, totems and roundels were all in place. Platforms are lettered A and B, not numbered. The line diagrams show the final service pattern as does the signage but I suspect they may be covered over with temporary signage / maps come December 2018. You can see where the time and money has gone in creating such enormous spaces. There was also a track digger chugging along one of the tracks - not sure why but obviously no class 345s whizzing through! b]EDIT[/b] Photos to follow later when I've processed them at bottom of this page on Flickr www.flickr.com/photos/24759744@N02/albums/72157630061932508/page2/.
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Post by snowman on Jun 15, 2018 16:47:20 GMT
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jun 15, 2018 22:25:14 GMT
I noticed at Morgate or Farrigndon today that some of the signs were peeled off revealing Elizabeth line.
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Post by snoggle on Jul 5, 2018 21:16:55 GMT
Obviously there are no guarantees these will run but the test train timetable for Crossrail has been loaded to NR systems from end of July. Test train times at TCRJust click on a train ID to see the run times between stations.
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Post by Alex on Jul 5, 2018 22:56:27 GMT
Obviously there are no guarantees these will run but the test train timetable for Crossrail has been loaded to NR systems from end of July. Test train times at TCRJust click on a train ID to see the run times between stations. Thanks for that - very impressive indeed. Woolwich to Custom House - 3.5 minutes , Woolwich to Paddington 25.5 minutes, and that's with one minute stands in some platforms. I wouldn't mind seeing the timings with all class 345 working on the Shenfield line, once the 315s are gone hopefully the 345 will be able to ramp up to it's full potential. I have spotted this when trains are running late and making up time, the 345 really takes off and also I've been standing at a station waiting for a late train, it's delay gets smaller and smaller until the 345 rolls in right time (or very nearly), impressive stuff indeed.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 7, 2018 11:15:22 GMT
Went to Whitechapel's open day today, pictures can be found here
I have to say I'm very sceptical it will all be ready in time for December. Most of the platform was closed and a lot of the area on ground level still had scaffolding and hoardings covering everything.
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Post by snoggle on Jul 7, 2018 13:10:55 GMT
Went to Whitechapel's open day today, pictures can be found here
I have to say I'm very sceptical it will all be ready in time for December. Most of the platform was closed and a lot of the area on ground level still had scaffolding and hoardings covering everything. Thank you for sharing these photos. I was unable to get tickets and then I see how empty the place was when you visited - grrrr! I have been sceptical about Whitechapel's progress for 2 years or so. This is largely because there were repeated additional closures of the ELL and District Line but zero mention of the station in any progress reports. Normally Crossrail has been "even handed" in how it boasts about progress but silence has long been indicative of problems. I don't think Whitechapel will open in December because the main ticket hall and access route simply won't be finished. The irony is that much of the actual Crossrail platform area has been in better state than the rest of the place.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 7, 2018 13:19:43 GMT
Went to Whitechapel's open day today, pictures can be found here
I have to say I'm very sceptical it will all be ready in time for December. Most of the platform was closed and a lot of the area on ground level still had scaffolding and hoardings covering everything. Thank you for sharing these photos. I was unable to get tickets and then I see how empty the place was when you visited - grrrr! I have been sceptical about Whitechapel's progress for 2 years or so. This is largely because there were repeated additional closures of the ELL and District Line but zero mention of the station in any progress reports. Normally Crossrail has been "even handed" in how it boasts about progress but silence has long been indicative of problems. I don't think Whitechapel will open in December because the main ticket hall and access route simply won't be finished. The irony is that much of the actual Crossrail platform area has been in better state than the rest of the place. I was quite surprised as well at the lack of people, I imagine they're selling a limited number of tickets to avoid having too many people crowding in one area at the same time which could post as a health and safety hazard. Something else I forgot to mention was the lack of signage, I didn't make it to Farringdon but looking at reports there were signs up there but only a few roundels were present at Whitechapel. They kept mentioning a green roof through the open day but there's zero sign of that wherever you look. All the PEDs were up so at least testing should hopefully manage to run through there without being hampered.
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Post by snoggle on Jul 7, 2018 13:31:48 GMT
Thank you for sharing these photos. I was unable to get tickets and then I see how empty the place was when you visited - grrrr! I have been sceptical about Whitechapel's progress for 2 years or so. This is largely because there were repeated additional closures of the ELL and District Line but zero mention of the station in any progress reports. Normally Crossrail has been "even handed" in how it boasts about progress but silence has long been indicative of problems. I don't think Whitechapel will open in December because the main ticket hall and access route simply won't be finished. The irony is that much of the actual Crossrail platform area has been in better state than the rest of the place. I was quite surprised as well at the lack of people, I imagine they're selling a limited number of tickets to avoid having too many people crowding in one area at the same time which could post as a health and safety hazard. Something else I forgot to mention was the lack of signage, I didn't make it to Farringdon but looking at reports there were signs up there but only a few roundels were present at Whitechapel. They kept mentioning a green roof through the open day but there's zero sign of that wherever you look. All the PEDs were up so at least testing should hopefully manage to run through there without being hampered. No point installing a green roof, even with drought tolerant plants, in this weather or when there is still an obvious need to access the roof area to do work. Clearly Crossrail do have to be careful about crowding on these visits but even so. Grrrr! Signage and stuff doesn't take that long to install if it's all fixed and non illuminated. Clearly a bit more involved if it is switchable to manage passenger flows. The most important thing is to get all the signs in (such as they are) and then ensure the CCTV images all work and there are no blind spots as a result of signage positioning. This should have been designed out long ago but it still needs to be checked.
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Post by busaholic on Jul 7, 2018 14:11:20 GMT
I was quite surprised as well at the lack of people, I imagine they're selling a limited number of tickets to avoid having too many people crowding in one area at the same time which could post as a health and safety hazard. Something else I forgot to mention was the lack of signage, I didn't make it to Farringdon but looking at reports there were signs up there but only a few roundels were present at Whitechapel. They kept mentioning a green roof through the open day but there's zero sign of that wherever you look. All the PEDs were up so at least testing should hopefully manage to run through there without being hampered. No point installing a green roof, even with drought tolerant plants, in this weather or when there is still an obvious need to access the roof area to do work. Clearly Crossrail do have to be careful about crowding on these visits but even so. Grrrr! Signage and stuff doesn't take that long to install if it's all fixed and non illuminated. Clearly a bit more involved if it is switchable to manage passenger flows. The most important thing is to get all the signs in (such as they are) and then ensure the CCTV images all work and there are no blind spots as a result of signage positioning. This should have been designed out long ago but it still needs to be checked. Perhaps tickets were withheld from anyone they suspected might ask too many pertinent (or, from their point of view, impertinent) questions?!
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Post by snoggle on Jul 7, 2018 14:24:04 GMT
Perhaps tickets were withheld from anyone they suspected might ask too many pertinent (or, from their point of view, impertinent) questions?! As most tours are self guided and you are not required to ask questions then I don't see how Crossrail could ever police such a policy. I've asked pointed questions before and got the fully expected guarded answers that are in line with the agreed public position. They're not daft. They also know trying to "censore" the public would reflect very badly if it were to become public. Inevitably the demand for these "final" visits is going to be high. Anyway I have an evil plan in mind to get me in to the stations before they open but are more finished than they currently are - MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Post by redbus on Jul 8, 2018 21:35:03 GMT
I was also at Whitechapel yesterday, and although the PEDs are installed, I don't think all the equipment above the PEDs to operate them was. Still, shouldn't stop trains running through. Lots still to finish, but I can see it being ready on time. I never realised the current entrance is only a temporary one, and the only entrance once Crossrail launches will be the revamped 'old' entrance on the main road.
I'll be at Tottenham Court Road tomorrow, so I look forward to seeing what that is like. I agree the ticket situation is poor, the tickets seem to go almost as soon as they are released.
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Post by snoggle on Jul 8, 2018 23:27:30 GMT
I was also at Whitechapel yesterday, and although the PEDs are installed, I don't think all the equipment above the PEDs to operate them was. Still, shouldn't stop trains running through. Lots still to finish, but I can see it being ready on time. I never realised the current entrance is only a temporary one, and the only entrance once Crossrail launches will be the revamped 'old' entrance on the main road. I'll be at Tottenham Court Road tomorrow, so I look forward to seeing what that is like. I agree the ticket situation is poor, the tickets seem to go almost as soon as they are released. Just watched Geoff Marshall's video about Whitechapel. On it he says that there will not be open day visits for Bond St, Liverpool St, Paddington or Woolwich. Not entirely surprised by this to be honest as time pressures on site are paramount and they can't spare the time to have the public wandering around plus setting up / taking down time. Enjoy TCR!
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