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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 22:32:06 GMT
Can anyone explain why NB4L (LT) drivers use such an erratic driving technique?
On a conventional bus, the driver accelerates to road speed, then coasts to the next bus stop. Job done.
NB4L drivers get up to about 15mph, brake, accelerate, brake, accelerate, brake. There's no coasting. It's a constant accelerate and brake routine.
It makes the bus rock back and forth and is extremely uncomfortable.
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Post by Danny on Jan 10, 2018 22:46:21 GMT
Can anyone explain why NB4L (LT) drivers use such an erratic driving technique? On a conventional bus, the driver accelerates to road speed, then coasts to the next bus stop. Job done. NB4L drivers get up to about 15mph, brake, accelerate, brake, accelerate, brake. There's no coasting. It's a constant accelerate and brake routine. It makes the bus rock back and forth and is extremely uncomfortable. Reminds me of a driver on the 407, he gives an extremely uncomfortable ride. |
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Post by Nathan on Jan 10, 2018 23:18:32 GMT
Can anyone explain why NB4L (LT) drivers use such an erratic driving technique? On a conventional bus, the driver accelerates to road speed, then coasts to the next bus stop. Job done. NB4L drivers get up to about 15mph, brake, accelerate, brake, accelerate, brake. There's no coasting. It's a constant accelerate and brake routine. It makes the bus rock back and forth and is extremely uncomfortable. Isn't that just the way the hybrid system is? The E400H has a similar behaviour to the one you described. |
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Post by lwldriver on Jan 11, 2018 0:16:49 GMT
Can anyone explain why NB4L (LT) drivers use such an erratic driving technique? On a conventional bus, the driver accelerates to road speed, then coasts to the next bus stop. Job done. NB4L drivers get up to about 15mph, brake, accelerate, brake, accelerate, brake. There's no coasting. It's a constant accelerate and brake routine. It makes the bus rock back and forth and is extremely uncomfortable. Isn't that just the way the hybrid system is? The E400H has a similar behaviour to the one you described. The case you are describing is solely down to that drivers driving behaviour. I drive all my buses in the same manner. |
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Post by lwldriver on Jan 11, 2018 0:17:26 GMT
Can anyone explain why NB4L (LT) drivers use such an erratic driving technique? On a conventional bus, the driver accelerates to road speed, then coasts to the next bus stop. Job done. NB4L drivers get up to about 15mph, brake, accelerate, brake, accelerate, brake. There's no coasting. It's a constant accelerate and brake routine. It makes the bus rock back and forth and is extremely uncomfortable. Reminds me of a driver on the 407, he gives an extremely uncomfortable ride. To Be Fair them buses are horrible with that AS Tronic box. |
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Post by planesandtrains on Jan 11, 2018 0:42:35 GMT
Reminds me of a driver on the 407, he gives an extremely uncomfortable ride. To Be Fair them buses are horrible with that AS Tronic box. It's because most drivers keep their foot stuck down when going through the gears, rather than taking their foot off during every change. But there is one thing I enjoy about those E200's, they have heaps of character. |
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Post by 6HP502C on Jan 11, 2018 1:00:51 GMT
Can anyone explain why NB4L (LT) drivers use such an erratic driving technique? On a conventional bus, the driver accelerates to road speed, then coasts to the next bus stop. Job done. NB4L drivers get up to about 15mph, brake, accelerate, brake, accelerate, brake. There's no coasting. It's a constant accelerate and brake routine. It makes the bus rock back and forth and is extremely uncomfortable. I drive NRMs, though I honestly try my very best not to. When the throttle is fully released, the retarder comes on automatically. Holding the throttle at about 10% stops it from engaging, allowing for a smooth cruise. Not everyone can figure this out though. The drivers who deliver that erratic ride don't understand how the retarder works so will be on and off the gas to maintain speed. Then you get the drivers at the opposite end of the scale who work out all of the complex throttle position sequences to gain far greater control of the engine, lock/unlock the gear to avoid jerkiness, cancel impending violent recoils, draw additional power etc. |
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Post by lwldriver on Jan 11, 2018 1:11:11 GMT
Can anyone explain why NB4L (LT) drivers use such an erratic driving technique? On a conventional bus, the driver accelerates to road speed, then coasts to the next bus stop. Job done. NB4L drivers get up to about 15mph, brake, accelerate, brake, accelerate, brake. There's no coasting. It's a constant accelerate and brake routine. It makes the bus rock back and forth and is extremely uncomfortable. I drive NRMs, though I honestly try my very best not to. When the throttle is fully released, the retarder comes on automatically. Holding the throttle at about 10% stops it from engaging, allowing for a smooth cruise. Not everyone can figure this out though. The drivers who deliver that erratic ride don't understand how the retarder works so will be on and off the gas to maintain speed. Then you get the drivers at the opposite end of the scale who work out all of the complex throttle position sequences to gain far greater control of the engine, lock/unlock the gear to avoid jerkiness, cancel impending violent recoils, draw additional power etc. Haha indeed I do try to avoid the poxy things to be honest with you. Sadly there aren’t any TA’s in active Abellio service but I do believe the few Green school ones are about although can’t be sure. That’s what you call a bus. Darts and Volvo’s are also good, but no darts left at WL or BC apart from trailer darts 8439 and 8418. Now I try to keep to driving Volvo’s and normal Enviros, can’t stand the 24** Hybrids. MMC’s I don’t mind them but nothing great but when we start talking about 8343-8347 that’s something else. |
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Post by 6HP502C on Jan 11, 2018 1:22:51 GMT
To Be Fair them buses are horrible with that AS Tronic box. It's because most drivers keep their foot stuck down when going through the gears, rather than taking their foot off during every change. But there is one thing I enjoy about those E200's, they have heaps of character. The time I had one, I drove it in manual mode when accelerating and put it in auto when coasting and slowing down. Shifting up at low revs largely does away with the jerkiness. |
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Post by 6HP502C on Jan 11, 2018 1:33:47 GMT
Haha indeed I do try to avoid the poxy things to be honest with you. Sadly there aren’t any TA’s in active Abellio service but I do believe the few Green school ones are about although can’t be sure. That’s what you call a bus. Darts and Volvo’s are also good, but no darts left at WL or BC apart from trailer darts 8439 and 8418. Now I try to keep to driving Volvo’s and normal Enviros, can’t stand the 24** Hybrids. MMC’s I don’t mind them but nothing great but when we start talking about 8343-8347 that’s something else. Yes the green ones have had a following ever since they entered service with Connex back in the day - truly amazing buses. Likewise with 8343-7 which are probably best placed on the 484 with its hilly sections. I remember when management at WL had all of the E200s severely restricted, doing 6mph or so up minor gradients like Dog Kennel Hill. Then one day, all of that rubbish was flushed out of their ECUs. I quite like the 24xx hybrids. They were so boring when new but now the engines/batteries are knackered, they are a bit more entertaining. As mentioned they also need a light hold on the gas to keep the retarder off. |
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Post by lwldriver on Jan 11, 2018 3:41:23 GMT
Haha indeed I do try to avoid the poxy things to be honest with you. Sadly there aren’t any TA’s in active Abellio service but I do believe the few Green school ones are about although can’t be sure. That’s what you call a bus. Darts and Volvo’s are also good, but no darts left at WL or BC apart from trailer darts 8439 and 8418. Now I try to keep to driving Volvo’s and normal Enviros, can’t stand the 24** Hybrids. MMC’s I don’t mind them but nothing great but when we start talking about 8343-8347 that’s something else. Yes the green ones have had a following ever since they entered service with Connex back in the day - truly amazing buses. Likewise with 8343-7 which are probably best placed on the 484 with its hilly sections. I remember when management at WL had all of the E200s severely restricted, doing 6mph or so up minor gradients like Dog Kennel Hill. Then one day, all of that rubbish was flushed out of their ECUs. I quite like the 24xx hybrids. They were so boring when new but now the engines/batteries are knackered, they are a bit more entertaining. As mentioned they also need a light hold on the gas to keep the retarder off. Neber has an opportunity to drive those TA’s. Are they still about? Only 8345-8347 can appear on the 484, C10 & P13 at the moment as 8322/43/44 still have their BC sets. |
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Post by snoggle on Jan 11, 2018 12:07:40 GMT
I drive NRMs, though I honestly try my very best not to. When the throttle is fully released, the retarder comes on automatically. Holding the throttle at about 10% stops it from engaging, allowing for a smooth cruise. Not everyone can figure this out though. The drivers who deliver that erratic ride don't understand how the retarder works so will be on and off the gas to maintain speed. Then you get the drivers at the opposite end of the scale who work out all of the complex throttle position sequences to gain far greater control of the engine, lock/unlock the gear to avoid jerkiness, cancel impending violent recoils, draw additional power etc. Stupid question time - given those foibles with the NB4Ls are drivers not given proper instruction on how to drive them smoothly? You're clever / interested enough to work out how to drive almost any bus well (given all your posts) but for those without your dedication surely passengers deserve drivers to be fully au fait with the nuances of a complex vehicle like the NB4L which has a unique drivetrain. |
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Post by portman227 on Jan 11, 2018 12:31:52 GMT
I drive NRMs, though I honestly try my very best not to. When the throttle is fully released, the retarder comes on automatically. Holding the throttle at about 10% stops it from engaging, allowing for a smooth cruise. Not everyone can figure this out though. The drivers who deliver that erratic ride don't understand how the retarder works so will be on and off the gas to maintain speed. Then you get the drivers at the opposite end of the scale who work out all of the complex throttle position sequences to gain far greater control of the engine, lock/unlock the gear to avoid jerkiness, cancel impending violent recoils, draw additional power etc. Haha indeed I do try to avoid the poxy things to be honest with you. Sadly there aren’t any TA’s in active Abellio service but I do believe the few Green school ones are about although can’t be sure. That’s what you call a bus. Darts and Volvo’s are also good, but no darts left at WL or BC apart from trailer darts 8439 and 8418. Now I try to keep to driving Volvo’s and normal Enviros, can’t stand the 24** Hybrids. MMC’s I don’t mind them but nothing great but when we start talking about 8343-8347 that’s something else. Whats different about the 24** hybrids compared to the MMC E400H, more or less same acceleration profile, 2400 series are older and not fully to the new spec. |
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Post by 6HP502C on Jan 11, 2018 14:32:33 GMT
I drive NRMs, though I honestly try my very best not to. When the throttle is fully released, the retarder comes on automatically. Holding the throttle at about 10% stops it from engaging, allowing for a smooth cruise. Not everyone can figure this out though. The drivers who deliver that erratic ride don't understand how the retarder works so will be on and off the gas to maintain speed. Then you get the drivers at the opposite end of the scale who work out all of the complex throttle position sequences to gain far greater control of the engine, lock/unlock the gear to avoid jerkiness, cancel impending violent recoils, draw additional power etc. Stupid question time - given those foibles with the NB4Ls are drivers not given proper instruction on how to drive them smoothly? You're clever / interested enough to work out how to drive almost any bus well (given all your posts) but for those without your dedication surely passengers deserve drivers to be fully au fait with the nuances of a complex vehicle like the NB4L which has a unique drivetrain. The responsibility is always on the driver to work out how to master each vehicle to deliver a smooth ride. Throttle/brake pedals are always in various states of repair and efficacy. My type training on LTs was pretty much how to operate the doors, wipers and switch the thing on and off. No special training provided on how to overcome what may be considered a design bug if not driven correctly. From my experience, operators expect the driver to work it out. If a lot of drivers complain, the onus is then put on the manufacturer to make a smooth ride easier to deliver. A case in point is the ZF AS-Tronic boxed Enviros which can be smoothly driven if one develops natural reflexes with the throttle and uses the manual gear controls. Until I started driving I didn't understand why some drivers put the bus into neutral prior to braking - some buses have diabolical retarders which significantly hamper ride quality so it's a way to brake smoothly - but at the expense of the brake pads. |
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Post by lwldriver on Jan 11, 2018 17:39:49 GMT
Haha indeed I do try to avoid the poxy things to be honest with you. Sadly there aren’t any TA’s in active Abellio service but I do believe the few Green school ones are about although can’t be sure. That’s what you call a bus. Darts and Volvo’s are also good, but no darts left at WL or BC apart from trailer darts 8439 and 8418. Now I try to keep to driving Volvo’s and normal Enviros, can’t stand the 24** Hybrids. MMC’s I don’t mind them but nothing great but when we start talking about 8343-8347 that’s something else. Whats different about the 24** hybrids compared to the MMC E400H, more or less same acceleration profile, 2400 series are older and not fully to the new spec. 24** series are basically standard E400H’s. I don’t like them, I find they are very lightweight and don’t hold the road very well, every slight dip in the surface of the road, the whole bus then vibrates. They are too loud when you pull up to stops sometimes. They aren’t very good on routes like the 343 with speed humps as even at slow speeds you tend to ground them. I am one of them drivers that despite being young, I much prefer the buses that I first used to drive; TA’s, Dart’s and Volvo’s do it for me. I’m not a Hybrid fan but I don’t mind the MMC hybrids, 45, 109 & 415 ones are ok, apart from the fact the 45 buses have front door interlock which is a right pain. |
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