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Post by snowman on Feb 19, 2018 12:01:17 GMT
consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/485-283/consult_view/Making 485 higher frequency and diverting via Putney High Street and Upper Richmond Road (thus along Putney LEZ corridor), current 30 minute intervals become every 15 mnutes Making the 283 curtailment to Barnes Wetland centre permanent (currently long term temporary) Also cutting 2 buses per hour on 209 Further change to 485 in 2019 (diverted to Osiers Road funded by developers), instead of current terminus at Ram Street.
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Post by lonmark on Feb 19, 2018 12:26:03 GMT
I think this is good idea. I agree with this route 485 change.
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Post by snowman on Feb 19, 2018 12:42:55 GMT
The 485 starts a new contract in May, not sure which buses were proposed but it currently uses 2006 LDPs but will require euroVI buses (with frequency doubled probably 7 buses)
The 209 is awaiting tender results (might have got a short extension) and uses 2009 enviro200s from Brentford
So effectively looking at GoAhead gaining PVR of 2 or 3 and Metroline losing some PVR if these changes take effect (which these days consultation proposals usually do, unaltered)
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 19, 2018 13:17:48 GMT
I can't help thinking it paves the way once the bridge works are complete for the 283 to run to Mortlake using possibly double dockers.
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Post by redexpress on Feb 19, 2018 13:18:14 GMT
The 485 starts a new contract in May, not sure which buses were proposed but it currently uses 2006 LDPs but will require euroVI buses (with frequency doubled probably 7 buses) The 209 is awaiting tender results (might have got a short extension) and uses 2009 enviro200s from Brentford So effectively looking at GoAhead gaining PVR of 2 or 3 and Metroline losing some PVR if these changes take effect (which these days consultation proposals usually do, unaltered) 485 was awarded on the basis of using EuroV SEs off the 244, although I guess that may change if these buses are not being released from the 244 any time soon. I doubt they'll want to spend money upgrading the old LDPs to EuroVI so newer buses of some sort will have to be allocated. 209 recently had a peak frequency reduction, obviously with no consultation. So they consult when they want to reduce the frequency with a partial replacement (the increased 485), but they don't consult when they reduce the frequency with no replacement! Not that it will make any difference anyway.
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Post by COBO on Feb 19, 2018 13:26:01 GMT
I think they should just combine the 283 and 485 together once the Bridge is completed.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 19, 2018 14:38:41 GMT
consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/485-283/consult_view/Making 485 higher frequency and diverting via Putney High Street and Upper Richmond Road (thus along Putney LEZ corridor), current 30 minute intervals become every 15 mnutes Making the 283 curtailment to Barnes Wetland centre permanent (currently long term temporary) Also cutting 2 buses per hour on 209 Further change to 485 in 2019 (diverted to Osiers Road funded by developers), instead of current terminus at Ram Street. I take it you mean the 283 will now run permanently between Hammersmith & East Acton with the 485 permanently taking over the Wetlands Centre section? A decent change though does it really need to run via Upper Richmond Road when the 337 shadows the busy 37 currently but the round the corner link may prove handy. Also, they could avoid having to stand in a residential area, especially given the problems that happened over at North Brentford with the 235, by serving the Wandsworth Riverside area and then continue to Wandsworth to stand with the 28 & 220 at the Southside shopping centre - there is plenty of room here to do so & you provide a direct link to Wandsworth Riverside from Southside. Ram Street isn’t ideal although at least it’s nearby.
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Post by ADH45258 on Feb 19, 2018 16:35:46 GMT
I would suggest that the 485 should use some of the 13-reg WSs from the 491. This would mean only one SD type at AF (though different lengths).
The 244's SEs can remain on the route at BX until it is known if a DD conversion will happen. The B16 is due to receieve a PVR top up from the 244 allocation, but should not be an issue as the B11 is likely to have a PVR decrease.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 19, 2018 18:30:33 GMT
I would suggest that the 485 should use some of the 13-reg WSs from the 491. This would mean only one SD type at AF (though different lengths). The 244's SEs can remain on the route at BX until it is known if a DD conversion will happen. The B16 is due to receieve a PVR top up from the 244 allocation, but should not be an issue as the B11 is likely to have a PVR decrease. How big is the B11’s decrease because if it’s just a -1 decrease, it won’t free up any SE’s but instead lead to its LDP being withdrawn.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 19, 2018 18:51:51 GMT
Hmm - bit of a curate's egg this one.
1. The 485 increased frequency is clearly a sop to "buy off" the "we want the 22 to run to Barnes" brigade. However I think a 15 min M-S service with added evening and Sunday coverage is a good idea - should have been done ages ago.
2. The permanent loss of the 283 to Barnes is a hefty frequency cut on a long term basis.
3. The cut to the 209 removes capacity from Barnes Bridge and Mortlake that is not replaced by the 485.
4. I may be being thick but I don't understand how the 485 serves Wandsworth post 2019. The consultation does not make it clear whether buses will just go to Riverside and omit the town centre or whether they will loop the town centre and terminate at Riverside. The map covers the 2018 and 2019 termini options but doesn't explain if access to central Wandsworth is lost from 2019.
5. I actually think TfL have missed a trick here in that looping Riverside and running across Wandsworth to Wandsorth Town station (or thereabouts) would be advantageous in giving people a link to train services into town. As it is people would be forced to change buses for what is a relatively short trip but one which is horrible to walk because of the road layout.
6. I look forward to the residents of Riverside saying "no smelly buses, no smelly buses, no smelly buses". I can foresee a repeat of the North Brentford Quarter fiasco.
7. I trust Wandsworth Council will happily toddle along and make the traffic light changes at Upper Richmond Road in due time and at their own cost (hah!).
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Post by snowman on Feb 19, 2018 19:23:23 GMT
Hmm - bit of a curate's egg this one. 1. The 485 increased frequency is clearly a sop to "buy off" the "we want the 22 to run to Barnes" brigade. However I think a 15 min M-S service with added evening and Sunday coverage is a good idea - should have been done ages ago. 2. The permanent loss of the 283 to Barnes is a hefty frequency cut on a long term basis. 3. The cut to the 209 removes capacity from Barnes Bridge and Mortlake that is not replaced by the 485. 4. I may be being thick but I don't understand how the 485 serves Wandsworth post 2019. The consultation does not make it clear whether buses will just go to Riverside and omit the town centre or whether they will loop the town centre and terminate at Riverside. The map covers the 2018 and 2019 termini options but doesn't explain if access to central Wandsworth is lost from 2019. 5. I actually think TfL have missed a trick here in that looping Riverside and running across Wandsworth to Wandsorth Town station (or thereabouts) would be advantageous in giving people a link to train services into town. As it is people would be forced to change buses for what is a relatively short trip but one which is horrible to walk because of the road layout. 6. I look forward to the residents of Riverside saying "no smelly buses, no smelly buses, no smelly buses". I can foresee a repeat of the North Brentford Quarter fiasco. 7. I trust Wandsworth Council will happily toddle along and make the traffic light changes at Upper Richmond Road in due time and at their own cost (hah!) . As far as I can work out the road at the end of the proposed loop (by Bell Lane Creek) doesn’t yet exist The map is confusing but Armoury Way and Ram Street are one way so it appears the buses will still go via Ram Street in one direction, so only go past Wandsworth Shopping centre in one direction. Extra mileage duplicating other routes (there are more needy parts of London if there are limited extensions) There is currently no right turn into Putney High Street, so a Bus only right turn needs to be built (there are currently two ahead lanes (but narrow) so unlikely trucks will get past a bus waiting to turn right (and there are lots of trucks as this is South Circular Road), so appears to be create a congestion scheme Don’t think it appeases the 22 to Barnes brigade, the big housing expansion has been at Roehampton end and this doesn’t go near that area.
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Post by ADH45258 on Feb 19, 2018 19:58:05 GMT
I would suggest that the 485 should use some of the 13-reg WSs from the 491. This would mean only one SD type at AF (though different lengths). The 244's SEs can remain on the route at BX until it is known if a DD conversion will happen. The B16 is due to receieve a PVR top up from the 244 allocation, but should not be an issue as the B11 is likely to have a PVR decrease. How big is the B11’s decrease because if it’s just a -1 decrease, it won’t free up any SE’s but instead lead to its LDP being withdrawn. A decrease on the B11 may release enough SEs for the B16's top up, with no longer a need for any vehicles from the 244 allocation.
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Post by galwhv69 on Feb 19, 2018 21:53:41 GMT
Wait,WHAT!Have TFL gone crazy and are increasing frequencies again! I better start celebrating before they realize and switch it back! Just thought I would throw this in:
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Post by Green Kitten on Feb 19, 2018 21:57:53 GMT
Disagree vehemently with the 283 cut, should return to Barnes. Currently it's a rather pointless stub of a route which shockingly still survives the frequency reduction spectre. Perhaps they're planning something with the route in the future, maybe in line with the 228.
_Why_ waste money on sending bus services to a quarter of 'luxury' soulless million-pound flats. The residents won't bother using the bus anyway, they have their Ubers. All this faff after cutting frequencies to routes where real people actually _use_ the bus. Maddening.
I do agree with the re-routing of the 485 though via Upper Richmond Road. Links more of Putney High Street and Hammersmith instead of duplicating the 220.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 19, 2018 23:01:50 GMT
Hmm - bit of a curate's egg this one. 6. I look forward to the residents of Riverside saying "no smelly buses, no smelly buses, no smelly buses". I can foresee a repeat of the North Brentford Quarter fiasco. Indeed and it’s not like there isn’t an alternative staring them in the face. Southside shopping centre has plenty of stand space and it finally allows the 485 to serve the shopping area much better than currently where it’s shoved out onto Ram Street. You could then take your idea of serving Wandsworth Town Station by starting from Southside then Garratt Lane, Wandsworth High Street & Putney Bridge Road to reach Wandsworth Riverside to loop around those roads and then run down Putney Bridge Road, Armoury Way, Old York Road (serving the station) & Swandon Way before going around the one way system and towards Putney. The return would be into Putney Bridge Road, Wandsworth Riverside, Putney Bridge Road, Armoury Way, Old York Road (serving the station), Swandon Way, Fairfield Street, Wandsworth High Street & Garratt Lane for Southside. Not the simplest of routings but does the job quite effectively.
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