Labour to propose free bus travel for under 25s

[snoggle]

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/11/labour-announces-plan-for-under-25s-to-have-free-bus-travel

Interesting move to link it to the use of franchising / municipalisation powers by local authorities. Can't see the big bus groups liking this *at all*. I'd expect this to fall foul of challenges to franchising / municipalisation because of the risk of loss of profits. Labour would have to change existing legislation to remove this issue.

The most worrying phrase in the article is that Labour have modelled their idea on the disabled / older person concessionary pass scheme. That has been partly responsible for the destruction of bus routes and bus companies so extending a badly flawed idea is not at all sensible. The scheme has to be funded properly and designed to avoid negative consequences or else don't bother. Why they think under 25 years old won't use such a pass 10 times a week is beyond me. If they're in work and commute by bus then they'll easily make 10 trips.

[Gellico]

Erm no thanks... Go back to giving cuddles out Labour plz

[RandomBusesGirl]

Nah who are they kidding...
Literally no country in the world has free travel for under 25s. It just makes no sense. Clearly trying to suck up to the younger demographic, but guess what I don't buy it, I don't buy any politician crap in fact.
I wonder who's gonna pay for that too…

[planesandtrains]

What I would rather see is a UK bus rover ticket similar to the ALR (National Rail) available in Daily, Weekly, Monthly and Annual formats. Then have discounts for the elderly and the young. No need for this endless phaffing for change/'day tickets' about when operators decide not to work together (ahem Courtney).

[vjaska]

This is why the current guise of Labour can't be trusted as they instead brainwash all youngsters that everything under Corbyn will be sweet and rosy with these crackpot schemes that can't be funded - I mean, you only have to look at Kahn's fare freeze for starters. They make out they are for the many not the few but in reality, their policies are actually similar in that like the Tories, they are for a select group and as for Corbyn, he is unfit to govern anyway given his links with his 'friends' Hezbollah & his idiotic dictator pal in Venezuela not to mention his refusal to condemn IRA attacks and the recent suspected Russia poisoning in Salisbury.

[LX09FBJ]

The mayors fares freeze has already had a profound effect on TfL services with cuts left, right and centre. So giving free travel to under 25s is frankly an idiotic idea that only serves to woo younger voters. Maybe a Railcard-style regional pass could perhaps work (like with the linking up of Oyster currently but with a bus element too, say 10-15% off the bus cap as well)

While many people are cash strapped, incremental fare increases that roughly matches inflation is sadly needed. People want a decent transport network with mod cons like free Wifi and USB charging but sadly there's a premium that needs to be paid for that.

I have sadly become less of a fan of Labour as Corbyn is too left wing for me.

[sid]

Apr 12, 2018 0:05:32 GMT LX09FBJ said:

The mayors fares freeze has already had a profound effect on TfL services with cuts left, right and centre. So giving free travel to under 25s is frankly an idiotic idea that only serves to woo younger voters. Maybe a Railcard-style regional pass could perhaps work (like with the linking up of Oyster currently but with a bus element too, say 10-15% off the bus cap as well)

While many people are cash strapped, incremental fare increases that roughly matches inflation is sadly needed. People want a decent transport network with mod cons like free Wifi and USB charging but sadly there's a premium that needs to be paid for that.

I have sadly become less of a fan of Labour as Corbyn is too left wing for me.

The fact is that the mayors fares freeze was in his manifesto and without it there would surely be an even bigger decline in bus usage? I agree that the free travel for under 25's idea is idiotic but no more so than the current free travel for under 16's. WiFi and USB chargers come as standard in other parts of the country.

[busman]

Using road tax and borrowing money to pay for free travel for under 25’s? I can’t vote for that. The outworking of this is:

Reduced space on buses for fare paying passengers
Increased road tax (or poor roads, take your pick)
Increased public debt
Promotion of entitlement in society

I’m not against national bus companies, but I feel that it should be run as a profitable business or break-even at worst. This scheme is just pouring money down the drain to drive political ideology and young votes. One thing that is clear - Labour is the party of entitlement not equality.

[John tuthill]

Apr 12, 2018 6:42:32 GMT busman said:

Using road tax and borrowing money to pay for free travel for under 25’s? I can’t vote for that. The outworking of this is:

Reduced space on buses for fare paying passengers
Increased road tax (or poor roads, take your pick)
Increased public debt
Promotion of entitlement in society

I’m not against national bus companies, but I feel that it should be run as a profitable business or break-even at worst. This scheme is just pouring money down the drain to drive political ideology and young votes. One thing that is clear - Labour is the party of entitlement not equality.

Call it bribery

[Deleted]

Apr 12, 2018 6:42:32 GMT busman said:

Using road tax and borrowing money to pay for free travel for under 25’s? I can’t vote for that. The outworking of this is:

Reduced space on buses for fare paying passengers
Increased road tax (or poor roads, take your pick)
Increased public debt
Promotion of entitlement in society

I’m not against national bus companies, but I feel that it should be run as a profitable business or break-even at worst. This scheme is just pouring money down the drain to drive political ideology and young votes. One thing that is clear - Labour is the party of entitlement not equality.

Completely agree with your statement. For me I have no problem with under 16s and under 18s, in full time education, having free fares but at 16/18 and out of education you have the means to pay for transport yourself by getting a job. Why should I as a taxpayer subsidise the under 25s and punish the rest of us with higher taxes. It’s ridiculous and as you say creates a culture of entitlement.

[snowman]

Probably a timing coincidence, but this week Safeguard in Guildford introduced a young adult fare (age 17-24) which is £1.50 or £2.50 return. Aim is to encourage bus use rather than take cars

Link

My personal view is that diverting funds into the scheme encourages the handout mentality
Labour is effectively wooing votes with a free gift to that age group

[snoggle]

Apr 12, 2018 11:11:46 GMT @busenthusiast56 said:

Apr 12, 2018 6:42:32 GMT busman said:

Using road tax and borrowing money to pay for free travel for under 25’s? I can’t vote for that. The outworking of this is:

Reduced space on buses for fare paying passengers
Increased road tax (or poor roads, take your pick)
Increased public debt
Promotion of entitlement in society

I’m not against national bus companies, but I feel that it should be run as a profitable business or break-even at worst. This scheme is just pouring money down the drain to drive political ideology and young votes. One thing that is clear - Labour is the party of entitlement not equality.

Completely agree with your statement. For me I have no problem with under 16s and under 18s, in full time education, having free fares but at 16/18 and out of education you have the means to pay for transport yourself by getting a job. Why should I as a taxpayer subsidise the under 25s and punish the rest of us with higher taxes. It’s ridiculous and as you say creates a culture of entitlement.

While I think this bus travel policy is flawed you need to be careful about your "why should I ask as a taxpayer subsidise "X"". Lots of things and groups of people get subsidies or reduced costs. Do you begrudge me not having to pay the full cost of the medication I need? I pay for my prescriptions but clearly don't the full cost of the drugs. Should councils not receive subsidies to buy greener buses? All of these are just examples of how taxpayers' money are spent.

It's interesting how many people (here and elsewhere) have missed the fact that road maintenance will be covered by a separate investment programme.

[Deleted]

Apr 12, 2018 14:42:52 GMT snoggle said:

Apr 12, 2018 11:11:46 GMT @busenthusiast56 said:

Completely agree with your statement. For me I have no problem with under 16s and under 18s, in full time education, having free fares but at 16/18 and out of education you have the means to pay for transport yourself by getting a job. Why should I as a taxpayer subsidise the under 25s and punish the rest of us with higher taxes. It’s ridiculous and as you say creates a culture of entitlement.

While I think this bus travel policy is flawed you need to be careful about your "why should I ask as a taxpayer subsidise "X"". Lots of things and groups of people get subsidies or reduced costs. Do you begrudge me not having to pay the full cost of the medication I need? I pay for my prescriptions but clearly don't the full cost of the drugs. Should councils not receive subsidies to buy greener buses? All of these are just examples of how taxpayers' money are spent.

It's interesting how many people (here and elsewhere) have missed the fact that road maintenance will be covered by a separate investment programme.

Of course I don’t begrudge your medical costs as they would be unaffordable if you had to pay for them yourself. I just think that by removing this cost for under 25s it removes the responsibility of having to budget for everyday expenses, medical expenses are not an everyday thing for a lot of people. My point is it will lead to a sense of entitlement and ultimately could lead to a weaker economy.

[mondraker275]

I think the incremental system in London with TfL is good and can be used nationally. This is U18s free, then 30% off as student, then 50% as unemployed, and then 100% when you work. To have a blanket U25 free makes little sense as many of the 21-25 can afford to pay for travel. Even if they are unemployed the number of journeys they need to make in say a week is very low.

[snoggle]

Apr 12, 2018 17:50:06 GMT mondraker275 said:

I think the incremental system in London with TfL is good and can be used nationally. This is U18s free, then 30% off as student, then 50% as unemployed, and then 100% when you work. To have a blanket U25 free makes little sense as many of the 21-25 can afford to pay for travel. Even if they are unemployed the number of journeys they need to make in say a week is very low.

The fundamental issue is what is / are the objective(s) of the policy? I haven't seen those stated. Is it to reduce car borne traffic? Is it to reduce pollution? Is it to help those who may have low incomes or are unemployed? Is to force a restructuring of the bus industry? After all the free travel won't be available nationwide - it will only be available where a franchising or "municipal" operation is in place (presumably compliant with whatever a Labour govt set out).

It may be a "bribe" as people are suggesting but it's a very limited one and subject to local decision making. I can see a whole load of Tory run councils simply refusing to have anything to do with the policy. That may impose some local political penalty for Tory councillors but if you don't have a large youth vote in an area why would you be bothered? Many areas have no history of "municipal" operation either and there is probably not the infrastructure to create it. There are a million and one issues with the policy that if you look in to the practicalities you can see it would take more than one parliamentary term for get a viable scheme up and running and for any results to show up. And that's before the existing bus groups drag the government through the courts over sequestration of their assets / loss of profits - exactly the issues that killed the Nexus proposal to regulate buses in Tyne and Wear.