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Post by Lukeo on Nov 17, 2019 11:39:39 GMT
Today's the day the Euston-Watford line goes 4tph.. but right now there's a half hour gap heading southbound (last train departed Watford at 11:31, next one is 12:02). Hopefully just a train not tracking?
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Post by kmkcheng on Nov 17, 2019 12:48:54 GMT
Today's the day the Euston-Watford line goes 4tph.. but right now there's a half hour gap heading southbound (last train departed Watford at 11:31, next one is 12:02). Hopefully just a train not tracking? I wonder if there’s a cancelled train in there as there’s another gap a couple of hours later as there’s another 30 minute gap with the 13:32 and 14:02 departures from Watford. There are also northbound 30 minute gaps as well
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Post by rmz19 on Nov 17, 2019 14:04:47 GMT
Today's the day the Euston-Watford line goes 4tph.. but right now there's a half hour gap heading southbound (last train departed Watford at 11:31, next one is 12:02). Hopefully just a train not tracking? I wonder if this will have an affect on the Bakerloo Line north of Queen's Park. Will there be a more reduced service towards Harrow & Wealdstone? Perhaps the shorts to Stonebridge Park will be removed.
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Post by Lukeo on Nov 17, 2019 14:10:29 GMT
Today's the day the Euston-Watford line goes 4tph.. but right now there's a half hour gap heading southbound (last train departed Watford at 11:31, next one is 12:02). Hopefully just a train not tracking? I wonder if this will have an affect on the Bakerloo Line north of Queen's Park. Will there be a more reduced service towards Harrow & Wealdstone? Perhaps the shorts to Stonebridge Park will be removed. Although frequency of the trains has increased, the capacity has barely increased as the new trains are only 4-car (still can’t get over that decision) so I hope not. I’m not sure the Bakerloo line could turn trains quick enough at Queens Park if the Stonebridge Park shorts were to be terminated there instead anyway.
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Post by redbus on Nov 17, 2019 21:06:00 GMT
I wonder if this will have an affect on the Bakerloo Line north of Queen's Park. Will there be a more reduced service towards Harrow & Wealdstone? Perhaps the shorts to Stonebridge Park will be removed. Although frequency of the trains has increased, the capacity has barely increased as the new trains are only 4-car (still can’t get over that decision) so I hope not. I’m not sure the Bakerloo line could turn trains quick enough at Queens Park if the Stonebridge Park shorts were to be terminated there instead anyway. I can't see a problem in turning the trains at Queen's Park. Remember outside of peak hours there used to be a time when all trains were turned at Queen's Park, so unless something has changed I suspect it would be fine.
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Post by rmz19 on Nov 18, 2019 0:10:02 GMT
I wonder if this will have an affect on the Bakerloo Line north of Queen's Park. Will there be a more reduced service towards Harrow & Wealdstone? Perhaps the shorts to Stonebridge Park will be removed. Although frequency of the trains has increased, the capacity has barely increased as the new trains are only 4-car (still can’t get over that decision) so I hope not. I’m not sure the Bakerloo line could turn trains quick enough at Queens Park if the Stonebridge Park shorts were to be terminated there instead anyway. Indeed. I can't get over that either. Although the 710s have a slightly longer carriage length than the 378s the frequency increase surely means there will be more usage due to the more attractive frequency, therefore justifying 5-car 710s, especially if this affects Bakerloo Line services north of Queen's Park (hopefully not). On a slight tangent, I always advocated the Bakerloo Line taking over the Watford DC Line like it used to.
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Post by Lukeo on Nov 18, 2019 0:28:01 GMT
Although frequency of the trains has increased, the capacity has barely increased as the new trains are only 4-car (still can’t get over that decision) so I hope not. I’m not sure the Bakerloo line could turn trains quick enough at Queens Park if the Stonebridge Park shorts were to be terminated there instead anyway. Indeed. I can't get over that either. Although the 710s have a slightly longer carriage length than the 378s the frequency increase surely means there will be more usage due to the more attractive frequency, therefore justifying 5-car 710s, especially if this affects Bakerloo Line services north of Queen's Park (hopefully not). On a slight tangent, I always advocated the Bakerloo Line taking over the Watford DC Line like it used to. Yes, exactly! And I am one of those people.. I live within walking distance of an overground station yet I always opt to take a 10 minute bus trip to Harrow for the metline instead. But now with the frequency being better, it's more likely that as I reach the bus stop I'll instead see the next train is only 5-10 mins away. ..Although having said that, I do still find the LO journey quite draining as you're stopping every few minutes, whereas the metline only has 5 stops to zone 1. So maybe the frequency increase won't be enough to convert me, we'll see!
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Post by ADH45258 on Nov 18, 2019 1:07:45 GMT
Indeed. I can't get over that either. Although the 710s have a slightly longer carriage length than the 378s the frequency increase surely means there will be more usage due to the more attractive frequency, therefore justifying 5-car 710s, especially if this affects Bakerloo Line services north of Queen's Park (hopefully not). On a slight tangent, I always advocated the Bakerloo Line taking over the Watford DC Line like it used to. Yes, exactly! And I am one of those people.. I live within walking distance of an overground station yet I always opt to take a 10 minute bus trip to Harrow for the metline instead. But now with the frequency being better, it's more likely that as I reach the bus stop I'll instead see the next train is only 5-10 mins away. ..Although having said that, I do still find the LO journey quite draining as you're stopping every few minutes, whereas the metline only has 5 stops to zone 1. So maybe the frequency increase won't be enough to convert me, we'll see! There is always the option of changing at Harrow & Wealdstone for the direct LNR services into Euston. Or take the Overground from your station (presumably this is Hatch End or Headstone Lane) to Kenton, then walk to Northwick Park (OSI) for the Met line - as this will save the bus fare.
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Post by ADH45258 on Nov 18, 2019 1:13:40 GMT
Although frequency of the trains has increased, the capacity has barely increased as the new trains are only 4-car (still can’t get over that decision) so I hope not. I’m not sure the Bakerloo line could turn trains quick enough at Queens Park if the Stonebridge Park shorts were to be terminated there instead anyway. Indeed. I can't get over that either. Although the 710s have a slightly longer carriage length than the 378s the frequency increase surely means there will be more usage due to the more attractive frequency, therefore justifying 5-car 710s, especially if this affects Bakerloo Line services north of Queen's Park (hopefully not). On a slight tangent, I always advocated the Bakerloo Line taking over the Watford DC Line like it used to. I have noticed the Watford line to be very busy at peak times, both on 378s at 3tph and on 710s at the new frequency. There could be the option to later add a fifth car to the 710s if TFL deem this necessary. The 378s were 3-car when new, then extended to 4-car and later 5. It is worth noting that the Gospel Oak-Barking line may be a factor, as the Watford line currently shares the same set of 710s. Would lengthening to 5-cars be necessary or beneficial on the Gospel Oak line? Or are the platforms even long enough at the stations on this route, having previously used the 2-car 172s. Though LO could always have a shared 5-car fleet between the Watford and North/West London lines, plus a separate 4-car fleet for the route to Barking.
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Post by Lukeo on Nov 18, 2019 10:18:45 GMT
Yes, exactly! And I am one of those people.. I live within walking distance of an overground station yet I always opt to take a 10 minute bus trip to Harrow for the metline instead. But now with the frequency being better, it's more likely that as I reach the bus stop I'll instead see the next train is only 5-10 mins away. ..Although having said that, I do still find the LO journey quite draining as you're stopping every few minutes, whereas the metline only has 5 stops to zone 1. So maybe the frequency increase won't be enough to convert me, we'll see! There is always the option of changing at Harrow & Wealdstone for the direct LNR services into Euston. Or take the Overground from your station (presumably this is Hatch End or Headstone Lane) to Kenton, then walk to Northwick Park (OSI) for the Met line - as this will save the bus fare. Indeed. I can't get over that either. Although the 710s have a slightly longer carriage length than the 378s the frequency increase surely means there will be more usage due to the more attractive frequency, therefore justifying 5-car 710s, especially if this affects Bakerloo Line services north of Queen's Park (hopefully not). On a slight tangent, I always advocated the Bakerloo Line taking over the Watford DC Line like it used to. I have noticed the Watford line to be very busy at peak times, both on 378s at 3tph and on 710s at the new frequency. There could be the option to later add a fifth car to the 710s if TFL deem this necessary. The 378s were 3-car when new, then extended to 4-car and later 5. It is worth noting that the Gospel Oak-Barking line may be a factor, as the Watford line currently shares the same set of 710s. Would lengthening to 5-cars be necessary or beneficial on the Gospel Oak line? Or are the platforms even long enough at the stations on this route, having previously used the 2-car 172s. Though LO could always have a shared 5-car fleet between the Watford and North/West London lines, plus a separate 4-car fleet for the route to Barking. True, whenever I would take the overground I’d change most of the time. Just checked with the new timetable and it’s an 8 minute wait for both of the fast services which is decent. It used to be 8 minutes for the 24 service, but with the 54 service the overground also arrived at 54 so you’d miss it unless it was a few mins late. Who knows, maybe the proposed Elizabeth Line branch down the wcml will happen one day! On a side note, when I was working in zone 1 a few years ago I tried the journey via Headstone Lane instead because I was running late, so was around 8am. I barely got on the LO service, and then didn’t get on til the 2nd fast train from HRW (probably better if I didn’t try switch!) but the worst part was at Victoria where I didn’t get on til the 7th sb Victoria line train. I found each carriage would have 1-2 people getting off at most. Hence I decided to stick to the route via Harrow, but indeed off-peak it is usually the quicker route. Headstone Lane is my station; I’ve actually never tried switching at Kenton. Every time I considered doing it, the overground train was a while away compared to the H14 to Harrow, so it didn’t make sense to wait for it (bearing in mind I’m closer to the bus stop, with the station being an extra few mins). I’ve heard on another forum that the platforms at either Gospel Oak or Barking (can’t remember which one) can’t have longer trains as the 5th carriage would extend over the points, and the platform can’t be extended from the other side. But most other platforms on the line can otherwise take 5 car trains. It’s a shame to hinder the Watford line just to have a shared fleet with the goblin though.
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Post by routew15 on Nov 18, 2019 17:40:20 GMT
Indeed. I can't get over that either. Although the 710s have a slightly longer carriage length than the 378s the frequency increase surely means there will be more usage due to the more attractive frequency, therefore justifying 5-car 710s, especially if this affects Bakerloo Line services north of Queen's Park (hopefully not). On a slight tangent, I always advocated the Bakerloo Line taking over the Watford DC Line like it used to. I have noticed the Watford line to be very busy at peak times, both on 378s at 3tph and on 710s at the new frequency. There could be the option to later add a fifth car to the 710s if TFL deem this necessary. The 378s were 3-car when new, then extended to 4-car and later 5. It is worth noting that the Gospel Oak-Barking line may be a factor, as the Watford line currently shares the same set of 710s. Would lengthening to 5-cars be necessary or beneficial on the Gospel Oak line? Or are the platforms even long enough at the stations on this route, having previously used the 2-car 172s. Though LO could always have a shared 5-car fleet between the Watford and North/West London lines, plus a separate 4-car fleet for the route to Barking. Although Watford DC Line going 5 car is not physically impossible or impeded by known infrastructure issues. It logistically is probably not a sensible move. The smaller the pool of 4 car 710s will increase the likelihood of an unreliable service on the GOBLIN, should multiple vehicles be taken out of service. Moving the fleet to Ilford where 4 car units are prevalent is probably not a sensible option as the units there are AC only. I think as Eastlondoner62 has mentioned in another thread GOBLIN will probably go through a frequency increase before extension to 5 car due to the infrastructure issues at Gospel Oak.
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Post by ADH45258 on Nov 18, 2019 17:45:42 GMT
There is always the option of changing at Harrow & Wealdstone for the direct LNR services into Euston. Or take the Overground from your station (presumably this is Hatch End or Headstone Lane) to Kenton, then walk to Northwick Park (OSI) for the Met line - as this will save the bus fare. I have noticed the Watford line to be very busy at peak times, both on 378s at 3tph and on 710s at the new frequency. There could be the option to later add a fifth car to the 710s if TFL deem this necessary. The 378s were 3-car when new, then extended to 4-car and later 5. It is worth noting that the Gospel Oak-Barking line may be a factor, as the Watford line currently shares the same set of 710s. Would lengthening to 5-cars be necessary or beneficial on the Gospel Oak line? Or are the platforms even long enough at the stations on this route, having previously used the 2-car 172s. Though LO could always have a shared 5-car fleet between the Watford and North/West London lines, plus a separate 4-car fleet for the route to Barking. True, whenever I would take the overground I’d change most of the time. Just checked with the new timetable and it’s an 8 minute wait for both of the fast services which is decent. It used to be 8 minutes for the 24 service, but with the 54 service the overground also arrived at 54 so you’d miss it unless it was a few mins late. Who knows, maybe the proposed Elizabeth Line branch down the wcml will happen one day! On a side note, when I was working in zone 1 a few years ago I tried the journey via Headstone Lane instead because I was running late, so was around 8am. I barely got on the LO service, and then didn’t get on til the 2nd fast train from HRW (probably better if I didn’t try switch!) but the worst part was at Victoria where I didn’t get on til the 7th sb Victoria line train. I found each carriage would have 1-2 people getting off at most. Hence I decided to stick to the route via Harrow, but indeed off-peak it is usually the quicker route. Headstone Lane is my station; I’ve actually never tried switching at Kenton. Every time I considered doing it, the overground train was a while away compared to the H14 to Harrow, so it didn’t make sense to wait for it (bearing in mind I’m closer to the bus stop, with the station being an extra few mins). I’ve heard on another forum that the platforms at either Gospel Oak or Barking (can’t remember which one) can’t have longer trains as the 5th carriage would extend over the points, and the platform can’t be extended from the other side. But most other platforms on the line can otherwise take 5 car trains. It’s a shame to hinder the Watford line just to have a shared fleet with the goblin though. Regarding the length of Overground services - until recently, the Gospel Oak line had a separate fleet of 172s, while the Watford line shared a 378 fleet with the N/W London lines. Perhaps we could have a similar situation again with the 710s? An isolated 4-car 710 fleet could be used exclusively for the GospelOak-Barking line. Then convert some 4-car 710s to 5-car, resulting in a shared 5-car fleet for the Watford and N/W London lines.
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Post by kmkcheng on Dec 4, 2019 23:13:35 GMT
There’s a new timetable starting on 15th December on the North London Line which includes a peak 10tph between Willesden Junction and Stratford (5 from Richmond and 5 from Clapham Junction). The odd South Acton shorts are also gone which will now reach Richmond
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 18, 2019 12:16:15 GMT
There’s a new timetable starting on 15th December on the North London Line which includes a peak 10tph between Willesden Junction and Stratford (5 from Richmond and 5 from Clapham Junction). The odd South Acton shorts are also gone which will now reach Richmond The new timetable is much better, and has finally sorted out the stupid headways in the evening, which sees nearly 20 mins, then two trains 5 mins of each other. In the mornigns and evenings there were some crazy headways on the North Loindon line, but seems now to have been ironed out.
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Post by redbus on Dec 18, 2019 19:43:51 GMT
There’s a new timetable starting on 15th December on the North London Line which includes a peak 10tph between Willesden Junction and Stratford (5 from Richmond and 5 from Clapham Junction). The odd South Acton shorts are also gone which will now reach Richmond The new timetable is much better, and has finally sorted out the stupid headways in the evening, which sees nearly 20 mins, then two trains 5 mins of each other. In the mornigns and evenings there were some crazy headways on the North Loindon line, but seems now to have been ironed out. I think the crazy headways were done in preparation for the extra trains which now run. I think the intention was to fill the long headways earlier, but the delays to introducing the 710s stopped that.
In terms of increasing capacity on the Watford DC service perhaps there could be a joint set of 5 carriage 378 and 710 trains between the NLL and the Watford DC service. The GOBLIN would have its own set of trains as it used to have. If there were a lack of trains on the GOBLIN perhaps it might be possible to take a carriage out of a 5 carriage 710 and turn it into a 4 carriage train.
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