95 jobs to go at Wrightbus

[snoggle]

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/jobs/sdlp-mla-says-95-wrightbus-job-losses-a-devastating-blow-36980015.html

Looks like the "fight the flab" regime at TfL is now having inevitable consequences for jobs elsewhere in the UK. I expect more jobs will go within 6 months as there is no sign of big orders from any of the UK bus groups who all have problems.

There is a particularly bizarre reference to "London Government directing orders to China and Egypt" which is more than a little misleading. If Wrightbus can't make a desirable all electric bus then it won't get any orders will it? Furthermore if it manages to somehow "upset" a long term customer like Metroline then what the hell does it think will happen? It's in a competitve market and if its products and quality don't hold up then the business goes elsewhere. And they weren't exactly crying for ADL employees when TfL ordered 1,000 NB4Ls which might have been fine for Wrightbus but didn't exactly do other bus manufacturers any good whatsoever. I think the Northern Irish politicians and journalists need to do a bit of learning about how things work before throwing round will accusations.

[Eastlondoner62]

This does make me wonder if they're actually planning on taking any steps to make their products more attractive for consumers. They can't just sit around laying of employees each time they run into a hurdle as soon there won't be any employees left to make redundant. Alexander Dennis and MCV are doing fine by the looks of it in the UK market. It's not really "inexcusable betrayal" if the company is not giving its customers what they want.

[snoggle]

Jun 5, 2018 18:34:16 GMT Eastlondoner62 said:

This does make me wonder if they're actually planning on taking any steps to make their products more attractive for consumers. They can't just sit around laying of employees each time they run into a hurdle as soon there won't be any employees left to make redundant. Alexander Dennis and MCV are doing fine by the looks of it in the UK market. It's not really "inexcusable betrayal" if the company is not giving its customers what they want.

You are forgetting that Northern Ireland demands continued "special treatment" and the politicians all act on this basis. It's like a bunch of spolit brats forever wailing that someone's kicked them in the shins and they need to be compensated. The attitude stinks to be quite honest and drives the sort of ludicrous attitudes evidenced in that article. I dare say Auntie Arlene (the real Prime Minister) will be bending someone's ear in Whitehall demanding that more bus orders are given to Northern Ireland regardless of the quality of the end product. Also let's not forget the colossal sums that have been given to Wrightbus via various programmes and order programmes that has taken a lot of commercial and developmental risk off Wrightbus altogether and STILL they moan. Alexander Dennis and Optare have had nothing like the same preferential treatment but are still capable of developing decent products that people want to buy.

[snowman]

Jun 5, 2018 17:51:01 GMT snoggle said:

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/jobs/sdlp-mla-says-95-wrightbus-job-losses-a-devastating-blow-36980015.html

Looks like the "fight the flab" regime at TfL is now having inevitable consequences for jobs elsewhere in the UK. I expect more jobs will go within 6 months as there is no sign of big orders from any of the UK bus groups who all have problems.

There is a particularly bizarre reference to "London Government directing orders to China and Egypt" which is more than a little misleading. If Wrightbus can't make a desirable all electric bus then it won't get any orders will it? Furthermore if it manages to somehow "upset" a long term customer like Metroline then what the hell does it think will happen? It's in a competitve market and if its products and quality don't hold up then the business goes elsewhere. And they weren't exactly crying for ADL employees when TfL ordered 1,000 NB4Ls which might have been fine for Wrightbus but didn't exactly do other bus manufacturers any good whatsoever. I think the Northern Irish politicians and journalists need to do a bit of learning about how things work before throwing round will accusations.

Just to make this clear, it is a second 95 jobs cut (95 cut was announced February)

The local politicians in NI (as snoggle has said) are not living in the real world. Wrightbus have been getting development grants, factory grants and other subsidies for years (millions per their accounts) On sales side they lost Metroline, RATP London and GOAhead London now seem to prefer the E400MMC. They have a framework agreement with Lothian (but Lothian then discovered it could get 50 nearly new buses from London), so may not take up all 300 buses. Elsewhere First Group has problems so unlikely to make big orders. Singapore looking at MAN buses. Wrightbus is in bigger trouble than losing 2x95 workers.

There is a view held by some of the more experienced members on here that TfL are cutting about 700 buses over 2 years from about 8400 to about 7700 (mayors business plan 7% cut). So orders will dry up from London. The new euroVI deadline of 26 October 2020 will probably then see a 2 year order freeze as happened after low floor conversion in April 2006 (however some contract Operator changes may see a few deliveries, but likely to be few dozen, rather than 800 buses per year). When orders do resume (2023?) could be different eg electric.

So Wrightbus may get virtually nothing from London for next 4-5 years, although might have got TFLs 20-23 hydrogen buses that Metroline (Perivale) will operate.

[redexpress]

Jun 5, 2018 17:51:01 GMT snoggle said:

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/jobs/sdlp-mla-says-95-wrightbus-job-losses-a-devastating-blow-36980015.html

Looks like the "fight the flab" regime at TfL is now having inevitable consequences for jobs elsewhere in the UK. I expect more jobs will go within 6 months as there is no sign of big orders from any of the UK bus groups who all have problems.

There is a particularly bizarre reference to "London Government directing orders to China and Egypt" which is more than a little misleading. If Wrightbus can't make a desirable all electric bus then it won't get any orders will it? Furthermore if it manages to somehow "upset" a long term customer like Metroline then what the hell does it think will happen? It's in a competitve market and if its products and quality don't hold up then the business goes elsewhere. And they weren't exactly crying for ADL employees when TfL ordered 1,000 NB4Ls which might have been fine for Wrightbus but didn't exactly do other bus manufacturers any good whatsoever. I think the Northern Irish politicians and journalists need to do a bit of learning about how things work before throwing round will accusations.

Exactly.  The reference to orders going to China is particularly disingenuous given that almost all of the Chinese buses in London are bodied in the UK by ADL.

I'm not a big fan of either manufacturer but it does seem that ADL are doing a better job of providing what operators want at the moment.  The tie-up with BYD was a very astute move.  Wrights could have looked at a similar arrangement but decided instead to develop their own electric products; if those aren't selling very well that's their own fault.  They do have the contract for hydrogen buses but that'll only be for a small number of units for the foreseeable future.

[ServerKing]

Jun 5, 2018 17:51:01 GMT snoggle said:

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/jobs/sdlp-mla-says-95-wrightbus-job-losses-a-devastating-blow-36980015.html

Looks like the "fight the flab" regime at TfL is now having inevitable consequences for jobs elsewhere in the UK. I expect more jobs will go within 6 months as there is no sign of big orders from any of the UK bus groups who all have problems.

There is a particularly bizarre reference to "London Government directing orders to China and Egypt" which is more than a little misleading. If Wrightbus can't make a desirable all electric bus then it won't get any orders will it? Furthermore if it manages to somehow "upset" a long term customer like Metroline then what the hell does it think will happen? It's in a competitve market and if its products and quality don't hold up then the business goes elsewhere. And they weren't exactly crying for ADL employees when TfL ordered 1,000 NB4Ls which might have been fine for Wrightbus but didn't exactly do other bus manufacturers any good whatsoever. I think the Northern Irish politicians and journalists need to do a bit of learning about how things work before throwing round will accusations.

I think it's a bit tense over there, they know the Mainland may flog them to Ireland as part of Brexit negotiations if need be, anywayz back to buses, even on a local level the protracted 243 HV rollout (with a couple being damaged in transit, and the long awaited arrival of HV353)...

Plus, people cant buy buses all the time, so orders are placed as and when. Only First and Go Ahead have bought the StreetDeck, hampered by the wrong size Daimler engine, only now when people have lost interest, they might offer the larger Citaro engine in it. As for Hybrids, aside from the jerky B5LH that even Volvo is tiring of, the only other attempt was a bus on the DB250 chassis with an engine from a Ford Transit in it I know about the NBFL's system, but it was proved it polluted more than a conventional diesel plus, cost for unique parts in the event of frequent brake failures or driver error

BYD had a credible product, but in a fugly body until tying up with ADL, and the frequent shutdowns or long lead times made Metroline try something else such as MCV, which is a nice change from so many Gemini3 buses of late.

They could update the StreetLite which is well overdue something, but in this climate, as with everything in business, it's evolve, or die, unfortunately. With operators increasingly sweating assets (see 318 ) new orders might be a while yet

[snoggle]

Jun 5, 2018 18:59:43 GMT redexpress said:

The tie-up with BYD was a very astute move.  Wrights could have looked at a similar arrangement but decided instead to develop their own electric products; if those aren't selling very well that's their own fault. 

Precisely this. ADL's move was very clever. If they can develop an electric double decker with BYD that is viable for the UK, Hong Kong and parts of mainland China then they'll be rolling in it. The Chinese will be more than happy if the ADL bodywork and finish raises the quality profile of their products. BYD are not exactly free from problems (that Los Angeles article I referenced a few weeks back) but I've not noticed the same issues in London. I've only ridden on a couple of the SEes but they seemed pretty decent. There don't appear to be reliability issues either - not seen reports of them conking out. The StreetAir wasn't bad either but seemingly operators (other than Lothian) are not convinced by it.

[capitalomnibus]

Jun 5, 2018 18:51:54 GMT snoggle said:

Jun 5, 2018 18:34:16 GMT Eastlondoner62 said:

This does make me wonder if they're actually planning on taking any steps to make their products more attractive for consumers. They can't just sit around laying of employees each time they run into a hurdle as soon there won't be any employees left to make redundant. Alexander Dennis and MCV are doing fine by the looks of it in the UK market. It's not really "inexcusable betrayal" if the company is not giving its customers what they want.

You are forgetting that Northern Ireland demands continued "special treatment" and the politicians all act on this basis. It's like a bunch of spolit brats forever wailing that someone's kicked them in the shins and they need to be compensated. The attitude stinks to be quite honest and drives the sort of ludicrous attitudes evidenced in that article. I dare say Auntie Arlene (the real Prime Minister) will be bending someone's ear in Whitehall demanding that more bus orders are given to Northern Ireland regardless of the quality of the end product. Also let's not forget the colossal sums that have been given to Wrightbus via various programmes and order programmes that has taken a lot of commercial and developmental risk off Wrightbus altogether and STILL they moan. Alexander Dennis and Optare have had nothing like the same preferential treatment but are still capable of developing decent products that people want to buy.

I have to agree with you on that, a bit of sour grapes. Apart from single decks in the 90's Wrightbus hardly had much share of the London market. In the early 2000's, they poached orders from Transbus/Mayflower and East Lancs in the London double deck scene. They won orders from Arriva, Go-Ahead, First then later Metroline. They have been slow at getting the London single deck market, but with the streetlite it has gained more orders than the outgoing Cadet. They gained a huge market share in London with the Nbfl and a lot of double deck orders in the past 8 years.

[vjaska]

Jun 5, 2018 22:48:49 GMT capitalomnibus said:

Jun 5, 2018 18:51:54 GMT snoggle said:

You are forgetting that Northern Ireland demands continued "special treatment" and the politicians all act on this basis. It's like a bunch of spolit brats forever wailing that someone's kicked them in the shins and they need to be compensated. The attitude stinks to be quite honest and drives the sort of ludicrous attitudes evidenced in that article. I dare say Auntie Arlene (the real Prime Minister) will be bending someone's ear in Whitehall demanding that more bus orders are given to Northern Ireland regardless of the quality of the end product. Also let's not forget the colossal sums that have been given to Wrightbus via various programmes and order programmes that has taken a lot of commercial and developmental risk off Wrightbus altogether and STILL they moan. Alexander Dennis and Optare have had nothing like the same preferential treatment but are still capable of developing decent products that people want to buy.

I have to agree with you on that, a bit of sour grapes. Apart from single decks in the 90's Wrightbus hardly had much share of the London market. In the early 2000's, they poached orders from Transbus/Mayflower and East Lancs in the London double deck scene. They won orders from Arriva, Go-Ahead, First then later Metroline. They have been slow at getting the London single deck market, but with the streetlite it has gained more orders than the outgoing Cadet. They gained a huge market share in London with the Nbfl and a lot of double deck orders in the past 8 years.

And yet the Cadet is a better bus in nearly every department (reliability the only real let down on certain batches)

[paulo]

Jun 5, 2018 22:48:49 GMT capitalomnibus said:

Jun 5, 2018 18:51:54 GMT snoggle said:

You are forgetting that Northern Ireland demands continued "special treatment" and the politicians all act on this basis. It's like a bunch of spolit brats forever wailing that someone's kicked them in the shins and they need to be compensated. The attitude stinks to be quite honest and drives the sort of ludicrous attitudes evidenced in that article. I dare say Auntie Arlene (the real Prime Minister) will be bending someone's ear in Whitehall demanding that more bus orders are given to Northern Ireland regardless of the quality of the end product. Also let's not forget the colossal sums that have been given to Wrightbus via various programmes and order programmes that has taken a lot of commercial and developmental risk off Wrightbus altogether and STILL they moan. Alexander Dennis and Optare have had nothing like the same preferential treatment but are still capable of developing decent products that people want to buy.

I have to agree with you on that, a bit of sour grapes. Apart from single decks in the 90's Wrightbus hardly had much share of the London market. In the early 2000's, they poached orders from Transbus/Mayflower and East Lancs in the London double deck scene. They won orders from Arriva, Go-Ahead, First then later Metroline. They have been slow at getting the London single deck market, but with the streetlite it has gained more orders than the outgoing Cadet. They gained a huge market share in London with the Nbfl and a lot of double deck orders in the past 8 years.

Just been in Hong Kong for the past couple of days and very noticeable that ADL now dominate the market there. It’s full of recent E400/500s and MMC variants and not a Frog Face in sight. I still can’t get my head around why they turned the Gemini into something so ugly.

[Volvo]

I don't think the Gemini 3 is ugly at all, infact it is imo one of the best ever looking DDS and looks alot better than previous versions what is ugly is the front of the evoseti imo the rest looks good. What is happening at Wrightbus is sad aswell.

[ServerKing]

Jun 6, 2018 17:57:29 GMT Volvo said:

I don't think the Gemini 3 is ugly at all, infact it is imo one of the best ever looking DDS and looks alot better than previous versions what is ugly is the front of the evoseti imo the rest looks good. What is happening at Wrightbus is sad aswell.

Its the M&S effect... evolve or die. I have gotten used to the Gemini3 with its egg-cartons-for-headlights and in your face looks, softened by ubiquity, nearly every operator has a Gemini3 now, so they can hardly be crying. Even a couple of the 4 series HVs are 18 plate, so it's not like nobody in London has bought a Wrightbus product in years. Even the 286 just got an extra Streetlite last week (okay, it was a late order again) so all this about the London bus scene abandoning them after overwhelming the streets of London is a bit much. Even Stagecoach bought the Gemini3.1 for Plumstead, and their Cumbria operations have bought Gemini3S open toppers, so they should quit moaning. Use the energy to design a smarter Streetlite. Something like a smaller version of their B8RLE single deckers with the G3 front.

Optare aren't moaning, and the Metrocity and MetroDecker havent exactly been a roaring success. The StreetAir (Electric SB200) was too big for London, and outside London, no one wants short range electric buses anyway