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Post by busaholic on Jul 18, 2018 22:11:15 GMT
Let me explain. I don't wish to see either the 25 or 48 change from their existing routes, but if the former was to do so and the latter was to be withdrawn then this is what I'd like to see in their place, assuming all changes were made at the same time. First to the 25. It is clear that TfL have no intention post Elizabeth Line opening of allowing the 25 to continue to Oxford Circus (or Tottenham Court Road or, quite probably, Holborn Station) and, imo, Holborn Circus is a hopeless terminus from the east, with passengers not even reaching that objective, so I'm proposing cutting it back further to St Pauls, but with every other bus further cut back to Aldgate Bus Station, thus the full service would run Aldgate to Ilford. Whether the 425 would still need extending from Stratford to Ilford I'm leaving out of the equation for now.
To continue the bus link between Oxford Circus and points east of Holborn Station along the corridor to Bank and beyond (given the 8 will apparently never have that opportunity again) I'm proposing the extension of the 98 from Red Lion Square to Aldgate Bus Station via the 25, thus overlapping the 25 between St Pauls and Aldgate.
If the 48 was to get the chop in its entirety, then, along with the extension of the 55 to Walthamstow, I'd divert the 242 south of Liverpool Street to London Bridge, thus at least preserving a Hackney to London Bridge link and ensuring a reasonable peak service from LB bus station to Liverpool Street and Shoreditch, should the bus stn ever re-open fully! The vacation of the St Pauls stand by the 242 should provide sufficient room for the revised 25. The 56 to St Barts (not so far from St Pauls) provides an alternative for some 242 passengers to that point.
Whether the 55 would require a peak hour boost for the common section with the 48 I leave it to others to evaluate (if this was done, perhaps it could coincide with a cut in frequency on the 56).
In all this, I'm assuming that the Oxford Street proposals are dead and buried.
Comments/ constructive criticism/ your own proposals welcome, now I've lit the touch paper. 
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 19, 2018 6:53:44 GMT
We don't know if the Oxford Street Proposals are dead and buried. TFL may still want to remove buses from the area.
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Post by sid on Jul 19, 2018 7:34:47 GMT
Let me explain. I don't wish to see either the 25 or 48 change from their existing routes, but if the former was to do so and the latter was to be withdrawn then this is what I'd like to see in their place, assuming all changes were made at the same time. First to the 25. It is clear that TfL have no intention post Elizabeth Line opening of allowing the 25 to continue to Oxford Circus (or Tottenham Court Road or, quite probably, Holborn Station) and, imo, Holborn Circus is a hopeless terminus from the east, with passengers not even reaching that objective, so I'm proposing cutting it back further to St Pauls, but with every other bus further cut back to Aldgate Bus Station, thus the full service would run Aldgate to Ilford. Whether the 425 would still need extending from Stratford to Ilford I'm leaving out of the equation for now.
To continue the bus link between Oxford Circus and points east of Holborn Station along the corridor to Bank and beyond (given the 8 will apparently never have that opportunity again) I'm proposing the extension of the 98 from Red Lion Square to Aldgate Bus Station via the 25, thus overlapping the 25 between St Pauls and Aldgate.
If the 48 was to get the chop in its entirety, then, along with the extension of the 55 to Walthamstow, I'd divert the 242 south of Liverpool Street to London Bridge, thus at least preserving a Hackney to London Bridge link and ensuring a reasonable peak service from LB bus station to Liverpool Street and Shoreditch, should the bus stn ever re-open fully! The vacation of the St Pauls stand by the 242 should provide sufficient room for the revised 25. The 56 to St Barts (not so far from St Pauls) provides an alternative for some 242 passengers to that point.
Whether the 55 would require a peak hour boost for the common section with the 48 I leave it to others to evaluate (if this was done, perhaps it could coincide with a cut in frequency on the 56).
In all this, I'm assuming that the Oxford Street proposals are dead and buried.
Comments/ constructive criticism/ your own proposals welcome, now I've lit the touch paper.
I agree that Holborn Circus is an unsuitable terminus for the 25 and it should still go to Holborn Station even if alternate buses are curtailed at St Paul's or Aldgate. I agree about rerouting the 242 to London Bridge if the 48 is axed. I suspect buses will be banished from Oxford Street whatever happens. |
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Post by cl54 on Jul 19, 2018 9:39:47 GMT
When construction of the additional entrance at Holborn station starts there will be a lot less road space in the area and probably traffic delays.
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Post by 15002 on Jul 19, 2018 12:22:07 GMT
Imo I think the 25 should be kept at least at Holborn. A lot of people use the 25 from East London as their sole transport due to it being much more cheaper than going on a train, plus it will allow for more options for transportation. With the 98 idea being extended to Aldgate, that would actually help assist the 25 between Holborn and Oxford Circus and allow for an East/West link to be more established as well (to put this into perspective, you could get two buses from East Ham to Willesden) so I’m supporting that idea as well, as well as carrying on the link between Oxford Circus and Aldgate via the 25 route. Only real issue I see is reliability and congestion within Central London which may prevent it running reliably all the time.
No issue with the 48 proposal.
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Post by Arriva London Explorer on Jul 19, 2018 12:47:12 GMT
Imo I think the 25 should be kept at least at Holborn. A lot of people use the 25 from East London as their sole transport due to it being much more cheaper than going on a train, plus it will allow for more options for transportation. With the 98 idea being extended to Aldgate, that would actually help assist the 25 between Holborn and Oxford Circus and allow for an East/West link to be more established as well (to put this into perspective, you could get two buses from East Ham to Willesden) so I’m supporting that idea as well, as well as carrying on the link between Oxford Circus and Aldgate via the 25 route. Only real issue I see is reliability and congestion within Central London which may prevent it running reliably all the time. No issue with the 48 proposal. I'm sad that TFL wants to cut back the 25 to Holborn Circus, I agree with the 25 going to Holborn station it would provide people the route to the station compares to the circus, also to replace the 25 link. Also agree with the 98, to Aldgate and should parallel with the 25 help out the cut of the 25. I don't agree with 48 and 55 merge, I think 55 should merge with the 56 as Whoops cross to Oxford Street would be perfect link. One the 242 can easily terminate at St.Barts Hospital so the link to East London to the hospital remains their 2. A slight frequency increase on the 4 would do fine, as it goes near enough to the hospital, also since theirs hopper fare 476/73/38 link with 4 to the hospital. Also 242 or 38 can more than go on Pembury road |
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Post by vjaska on Jul 19, 2018 13:21:58 GMT
Imo I think the 25 should be kept at least at Holborn. A lot of people use the 25 from East London as their sole transport due to it being much more cheaper than going on a train, plus it will allow for more options for transportation. With the 98 idea being extended to Aldgate, that would actually help assist the 25 between Holborn and Oxford Circus and allow for an East/West link to be more established as well (to put this into perspective, you could get two buses from East Ham to Willesden) so I’m supporting that idea as well, as well as carrying on the link between Oxford Circus and Aldgate via the 25 route. Only real issue I see is reliability and congestion within Central London which may prevent it running reliably all the time. No issue with the 48 proposal. Yeah, I think we can all agree that the 25 is no good terminating at Holborn Circus & Holborn Station would be a far better alternative. The 98 is idea is interesting and should be doable as far as Aldgate as it's not the longest route going and is the most direct from Willesden. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 13:31:03 GMT
If Holborn is not possible what about Russell Square if space?
Another idea would be extend the 115 from Aldgate towards Holborn but this would mean more buses needed on this route.
As others have said the 25 is a very popular route carrying a lot of passengers from east London towards Oxford Street. I can't see a sudden switch to train.
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Post by busaholic on Jul 19, 2018 13:40:10 GMT
Imo I think the 25 should be kept at least at Holborn. A lot of people use the 25 from East London as their sole transport due to it being much more cheaper than going on a train, plus it will allow for more options for transportation. With the 98 idea being extended to Aldgate, that would actually help assist the 25 between Holborn and Oxford Circus and allow for an East/West link to be more established as well (to put this into perspective, you could get two buses from East Ham to Willesden) so I’m supporting that idea as well, as well as carrying on the link between Oxford Circus and Aldgate via the 25 route. Only real issue I see is reliability and congestion within Central London which may prevent it running reliably all the time. No issue with the 48 proposal. Yeah, I think we can all agree that the 25 is no good terminating at Holborn Circus & Holborn Station would be a far better alternative. The 98 is idea is interesting and should be doable as far as Aldgate as it's not the longest route going and is the most direct from Willesden. Thanks for all the comments so far. I was assuming that Holborn Station, even if doable, would be a 'red line'. For those who are unaware, the 98 is the former western half of the 8, which ran Willesden to Old Ford for donkeys' years. I've even got the memory of it being the only successful bus schedule I ever compiled when I worked for the organisation, having failed miserably with the 6 and the 10! (The bus timings were comparatively easy, it was getting the crew schedules to match that I found impossible).
As for buses getting withdrawn from Oxford Street altogether, that is outside the scope of this thread and would in any case require a new consultation imo as the principal reason given for the previous one is no longer true.
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Post by sid on Jul 19, 2018 14:12:47 GMT
Yeah, I think we can all agree that the 25 is no good terminating at Holborn Circus & Holborn Station would be a far better alternative. The 98 is idea is interesting and should be doable as far as Aldgate as it's not the longest route going and is the most direct from Willesden. Thanks for all the comments so far. I was assuming that Holborn Station, even if doable, would be a 'red line'. For those who are unaware, the 98 is the former western half of the 8, which ran Willesden to Old Ford for donkeys' years. I've even got the memory of it being the only successful bus schedule I ever compiled when I worked for the organisation, having failed miserably with the 6 and the 10! (The bus timings were comparatively easy, it was getting the crew schedules to match that I found impossible).
As for buses getting withdrawn from Oxford Street altogether, that is outside the scope of this thread and would in any case require a new consultation imo as the principal reason given for the previous one is no longer true.
I remember the 8 going all the way to Willesden Garage and for many years it was worked exclusively from BW.
Whatever the future is for Oxford Street I don't see buses being a part of it so the 98 might well end up being withdrawn from Oxford Circus?
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Post by vjaska on Jul 19, 2018 14:20:04 GMT
If Holborn is not possible what about Russell Square if space? Another idea would be extend the 115 from Aldgate towards Holborn but this would mean more buses needed on this route. As others have said the 25 is a very popular route carrying a lot of passengers from east London towards Oxford Street. I can't see a sudden switch to train. Russell Square doesn't have the space for the 25 - it currently only has enough space for the 98 & 188 as well as the X68 which does sit on the stand sometimes between trips. If the 98 was extended beyond Holborn, you free up its stand for the 25 to use though extra stand space may probably be required. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 14:44:53 GMT
If Holborn is not possible what about Russell Square if space? Another idea would be extend the 115 from Aldgate towards Holborn but this would mean more buses needed on this route. As others have said the 25 is a very popular route carrying a lot of passengers from east London towards Oxford Street. I can't see a sudden switch to train. Russell Square doesn't have the space for the 25 - it currently only has enough space for the 98 & 188 as well as the X68 which does sit on the stand sometimes between trips. If the 98 was extended beyond Holborn, you free up its stand for the 25 to use though extra stand space may probably be required. o sorry I thought the 98 had returned to Red Lion Square. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 14:51:49 GMT
Personally I think it will be crazy to withdraw the 48 at all! It will add much more pressure to the 55 and 56.
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Post by John tuthill on Jul 19, 2018 14:57:16 GMT
Thanks for all the comments so far. I was assuming that Holborn Station, even if doable, would be a 'red line'. For those who are unaware, the 98 is the former western half of the 8, which ran Willesden to Old Ford for donkeys' years. I've even got the memory of it being the only successful bus schedule I ever compiled when I worked for the organisation, having failed miserably with the 6 and the 10! (The bus timings were comparatively easy, it was getting the crew schedules to match that I found impossible).
As for buses getting withdrawn from Oxford Street altogether, that is outside the scope of this thread and would in any case require a new consultation imo as the principal reason given for the previous one is no longer true.
I remember the 8 going all the way to Willesden Garage and for many years it was worked exclusively from BW.
Whatever the future is for Oxford Street I don't see buses being a part of it so the 98 might well end up being withdrawn from Oxford Circus?
And here's the proof(Ian Armstrongs bus route page)  Attachment Deleted |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 19, 2018 16:17:48 GMT
The 7/98 were replaced with the 10 passing through Russell Square so the previous 7 stand should still be there. Maybe earmarked for the 3?
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