|
Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 27, 2018 12:57:11 GMT
I sat downstairs on an LT on the EL2 yesterday evening- I'd give that a -5. I even tweeted Tfl about the temperature, without reply Pretty much every LT I get in my area gets a -5, haven't had one with a working air cooling system since last year. Honestly, it's absolutely unacceptable that something hasn't been done about it bar fitting some windows as you could argue it breaches health & safety when you have temperatures of 35 degrees on there. I have checked a few LT's today, none of them are effective and just blowing standard air. A few of the drivers cab in them has the AC working ok, a few doesn't work well.
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 27, 2018 13:00:24 GMT
Checked a few buses today. Almost all the Gemini3 HV's blow cold, yesterday one of them on the 259 was blowing standard air. THe LT's everyone of them was warm standard air. Only one had been a little cool at the vents but wouldn't be felt at seat level.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Jul 27, 2018 13:05:02 GMT
Pretty much every LT I get in my area gets a -5, haven't had one with a working air cooling system since last year. Honestly, it's absolutely unacceptable that something hasn't been done about it bar fitting some windows as you could argue it breaches health & safety when you have temperatures of 35 degrees on there. I have checked a few LT's today, none of them are effective and just blowing standard air. A few of the drivers cab in them has the AC working ok, a few doesn't work well. There was a driver on the news yesterday saying it’s unacceptable how many buses have no decent cooling system for passengers or drivers alike. snoggle makes a great point about the concept of closing all the windows - until recently, I never knew that closing all the windows would actually help and TfL have never bothered to explain this to passengers which is why nearly every person leaves them open. This is why I’ve long called for removing the air cooling systems and just fit proper sliding windows like what the L’s, M’s & T’s had rather than the small ineffective ones on LT’s.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Jul 27, 2018 13:06:23 GMT
Checked a few buses today. Almost all the Gemini3 HV's blow cold, yesterday one of them on the 259 was blowing standard air. THe LT's everyone of them was warm standard air. Only one had been a little cool at the vents but wouldn't be felt at seat level. Gemini2’s & Gemini3’s do seem to do better than other types and MMC’s can be pleasant to ride on depending where you sit.
|
|
|
Post by VWH1414 on Jul 27, 2018 13:37:55 GMT
Checked a few buses today. Almost all the Gemini3 HV's blow cold, yesterday one of them on the 259 was blowing standard air. THe LT's everyone of them was warm standard air. Only one had been a little cool at the vents but wouldn't be felt at seat level. Gemini2’s & Gemini3’s do seem to do better than other types and MMC’s can be pleasant to ride on depending where you sit. Had the misfortune of catching VWH2184 twice on the 114 on Tuesday, that was blowing out a tiny bit of warm air. A lot of the LS ADEs/ADHs have good air conditioning, although like you said you have to be in the correct place to actually get it, usually the right hand side upstairs is best, similar situation with their 13 reg VHs.
|
|
|
Post by redexpress on Jul 27, 2018 13:38:28 GMT
I have checked a few LT's today, none of them are effective and just blowing standard air. A few of the drivers cab in them has the AC working ok, a few doesn't work well. There was a driver on the news yesterday saying it’s unacceptable how many buses have no decent cooling system for passengers or drivers alike. snoggle makes a great point about the concept of closing all the windows - until recently, I never knew that closing all the windows would actually help and TfL have never bothered to explain this to passengers which is why nearly every person leaves them open. This is why I’ve long called for removing the air cooling systems and just fit proper sliding windows like what the L’s, M’s & T’s had rather than the small ineffective ones on LT’s. Actually I'm not sure about closing windows on buses here. If you have proper air conditioning it is certainly much better to keep the windows closed - I grew up in a hot country so I had that drummed into me from an early age. But the air cooling on many London buses is nowhere near good enough to generate enough air flow within the bus. If you leave all windows closed in this weather the bus will end up being unbearably stuffy, which is why most people will open the windows. This is why it was such a miscalculation not to fit LTs with opening windows at first. If they had proper a/c it wouldn't have been an issue.
Another problem is that buses are forever opening and closing their doors, which makes the idea of keeping the cool air within the bus rather difficult to achieve.
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Jul 27, 2018 13:50:41 GMT
There was a driver on the news yesterday saying it’s unacceptable how many buses have no decent cooling system for passengers or drivers alike. snoggle makes a great point about the concept of closing all the windows - until recently, I never knew that closing all the windows would actually help and TfL have never bothered to explain this to passengers which is why nearly every person leaves them open. This is why I’ve long called for removing the air cooling systems and just fit proper sliding windows like what the L’s, M’s & T’s had rather than the small ineffective ones on LT’s. Actually I'm not sure about closing windows on buses here. If you have proper air conditioning it is certainly much better to keep the windows closed - I grew up in a hot country so I had that drummed into me from an early age. But the air cooling on many London buses is nowhere near good enough to generate enough air flow within the bus. If you leave all windows closed in this weather the bus will end up being unbearably stuffy, which is why most people will open the windows. This is why it was such a miscalculation not to fit LTs with opening windows at first. If they had proper a/c it wouldn't have been an issue. Another problem is that buses are forever opening and closing their doors, which makes the idea of keeping the cool air within the bus rather difficult to achieve. In countries with proper air con on their buses then there are no opening windows anyway! That's my experience of Hong Kong and Singapore. HK moved to a fully air con bus service a number of years ago but before then those buses without it had huge opening windows all the way along so the draught effect when the vehicle got up speed must have been nice. I can only recall one such bus ride - on an ex London DMS - and the breeze was not something I was paying attention to. Being alive at the end of the ride was a greater concern. KMB S3BL419 6C Mongkok by plcd1, on Flickr Given full air con, Far East style, requires massive units at the back of the bus plus considerable ducting on both decks it would be completely impossible to have an air conditioned, 3 door, rear platform NB4L. It just couldn't work. You need something very different like some of the Enviro 500 designs that ADL have come up with but they are long vehicles which would no doubt have triggered the usual hysteria about long buses that arises in London. (We'll just ignore all the long sightseeing buses and enormous coaches than run on the same roads). What a shame we didn't end up with 1,000 dual staircase, three doored ADL Enviro 500s with proper air con. That would have been a legacy but not a very clean one (no hybrid drive train).
|
|
|
Post by snowman on Jul 27, 2018 14:36:42 GMT
Actually I'm not sure about closing windows on buses here. If you have proper air conditioning it is certainly much better to keep the windows closed - I grew up in a hot country so I had that drummed into me from an early age. But the air cooling on many London buses is nowhere near good enough to generate enough air flow within the bus. If you leave all windows closed in this weather the bus will end up being unbearably stuffy, which is why most people will open the windows. This is why it was such a miscalculation not to fit LTs with opening windows at first. If they had proper a/c it wouldn't have been an issue. Another problem is that buses are forever opening and closing their doors, which makes the idea of keeping the cool air within the bus rather difficult to achieve. In countries with proper air con on their buses then there are no opening windows anyway! That's my experience of Hong Kong and Singapore. HK moved to a fully air con bus service a number of years ago but before then those buses without it had huge opening windows all the way along so the draught effect when the vehicle got up speed must have been nice. I can only recall one such bus ride - on an ex London DMS - and the breeze was not something I was paying attention to. Being alive at the end of the ride was a greater concern. KMB S3BL419 6C Mongkok by plcd1, on Flickr Given full air con, Far East style, requires massive units at the back of the bus plus considerable ducting on both decks it would be completely impossible to have an air conditioned, 3 door, rear platform NB4L. It just couldn't work. You need something very different like some of the Enviro 500 designs that ADL have come up with but they are long vehicles which would no doubt have triggered the usual hysteria about long buses that arises in London. (We'll just ignore all the long sightseeing buses and enormous coaches than run on the same roads). What a shame we didn't end up with 1,000 dual staircase, three doored ADL Enviro 500s with proper air con. That would have been a legacy but not a very clean one (no hybrid drive train). Where proper a/c is fitted, normal practice is not to fit opening windows (saves weight), and to fit coated glass (anti solar glare), which is different to just having tinted glass. Can also save cost of the heater plumbing that tends to run along the saloon (instead heat/cool air in one place before it enters ducts). I think the reference to Far East style also includes the E500s in America, Switzerland, Mexico etc. Not just an Asian thing Now that the rear platform is closed, the theory about proper a/c wouldn’t work is a myth. But alas no provision was made to retrofit and now harder due to removal of fixed windows
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Jul 27, 2018 16:31:05 GMT
Now that the rear platform is closed, the theory about proper a/c wouldn’t work is a myth. But alas no provision was made to retrofit and now harder due to removal of fixed windows You misunderstood me. The entire rear design of the NB4L is such that it physically prevents the sort of full refrigerant based air con that you see in buses in the Far East. There physically is not the space and probably not the axle weight capability, given the NB4L's heaviness, to cope with extra equipment. I was not referring to the rear door being left open - that just b*ggered how the air cooling worked. We all know what Far East operators thought of the NB4L when it was on tour - a great big thumbs down in their operational conditions especially the issues with lack of air con which is now considered essential by passengers in Hong Kong / Singapore. I am not even convinced that the adapted Wright design on Volvo chassis (VHR in RATP speak) could take full air con either. I have not travelled on one so don't know whether they are any better in terms of ventilation and air cooling.
|
|
|
Post by rhys on Jul 27, 2018 18:10:39 GMT
Now that the rear platform is closed, the theory about proper a/c wouldn’t work is a myth. But alas no provision was made to retrofit and now harder due to removal of fixed windows You misunderstood me. The entire rear design of the NB4L is such that it physically prevents the sort of full refrigerant based air con that you see in buses in the Far East. There physically is not the space and probably not the axle weight capability, given the NB4L's heaviness, to cope with extra equipment. I was not referring to the rear door being left open - that just b*ggered how the air cooling worked. We all know what Far East operators thought of the NB4L when it was on tour - a great big thumbs down in their operational conditions especially the issues with lack of air con which is now considered essential by passengers in Hong Kong / Singapore. I am not even convinced that the adapted Wright design on Volvo chassis (VHR in RATP speak) could take full air con either. I have not travelled on one so don't know whether they are any better in terms of ventilation and air cooling. I'd imagine a VHR to peform a lot better than an NRM, when it comes to A/C. The interior of a VHR is more closely related to a Gemini 3, than it is to an NRM. Gemini 3s often tend to be rather decent with A/C, so who knows?
|
|
|
Post by sid on Jul 28, 2018 22:28:25 GMT
Checked a few buses today. Almost all the Gemini3 HV's blow cold, yesterday one of them on the 259 was blowing standard air. THe LT's everyone of them was warm standard air. Only one had been a little cool at the vents but wouldn't be felt at seat level. Well I seem to have struck lucky today, I rode on LT677 on the 3, LT436 on the 12, LT725 on the 59 and LT114 on the 148 and all were blowing cool air, not phenomenal amounts and you would expect better from a proper air con system but it was cool air and all four were comfortable enough to travel on.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Jul 28, 2018 22:43:40 GMT
Checked a few buses today. Almost all the Gemini3 HV's blow cold, yesterday one of them on the 259 was blowing standard air. THe LT's everyone of them was warm standard air. Only one had been a little cool at the vents but wouldn't be felt at seat level. Well I seem to have struck lucky today, I rode on LT677 on the 3, LT436 on the 12, LT725 on the 59 and LT114 on the 148 and all were blowing cool air, not phenomenal amounts and you would expect better from a proper air con system but it was cool air and all four were comfortable enough to travel on. The one LT I had today (LT745 on the 390) had working air cooling but there was no cool air coming out at all. It was only bearable as by this point, it was early evening and there was a lot of wind about with not too much sun.
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 2, 2018 10:33:09 GMT
It also doesn't help that there are a few garages that have disconnected the air-con from the drivers cab by removing the driver belt on the a/c compressor, so no a/c for drivers and definitely no a/c for the passengers upper deck cooling.
|
|
|
Post by sid on Aug 2, 2018 11:09:43 GMT
It also doesn't help that there are a few garages that have disconnected the air-con from the drivers cab by removing the driver belt on the a/c compressor, so no a/c for drivers and definitely no a/c for the passengers upper deck cooling. Don't the unions have anything to say about it? And operators wonder why they struggle to recruit drivers.
|
|
|
Post by John tuthill on Aug 2, 2018 12:47:36 GMT
It also doesn't help that there are a few garages that have disconnected the air-con from the drivers cab by removing the driver belt on the a/c compressor, so no a/c for drivers and definitely no a/c for the passengers upper deck cooling. I'll bet it was done on economic grounds. If your mpg in your car goes down with the a/c running....................
|
|