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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2018 15:42:25 GMT
I wonder if they (TfL) will just pitch in with this “they can use Dial-a-Ride” in response to the consultation objections The same thought did wander through my mind. It's certainly their response when getting rid of the mobility bus routes. Yeah it would certainly fit considering the displaced passenger groups concerned along with the revelation above from snowman about DaR. It’s clever that they didn’t mention it in the consultation because they are likely knowing that the objections will be from and/or about the vulnerable users that would likely be eligible for DaR, so once TfL have all this they can push it through and offer DaR as a ‘compromise’. I’d be surprised if it doesn’t go down like that anyway. Sadly though, like the public do, they’ll swallow up the offer as if it’s a favour from TfL rather than the plan all along!
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Post by ian on Sept 16, 2018 16:25:35 GMT
To be fair there has been a campaign to link Edgware (and Mill Hill) directly with Barnet ever since services were moved from Edgware to Barnet hospital about 15 years or so ago. It has gathered pace at various times with the move of Barnet Football Club, and the creation of various new schools. The link was certainly suggested in the review of hospital links last year, so it has been a possibility for some time. I do, agree, though, that the timing has been probably connected with the determination to reduce the frequency of the 292 re Herts CC funding issues. I think it is also to show new outer London links reference the central London cuts that are to come, and this is one new link that could be delivered quite rapidly.
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Post by uakari on Oct 2, 2018 23:34:54 GMT
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Post by uakari on Oct 11, 2018 1:49:00 GMT
The 'save the 384 bus' campaign against removing the route from the residential roads in High/New/East Barnet, plus New Barnet station, East Barnet Road, The Spires, etc, is in full swing, with councillors and volunteers (including me) handing out flyers and setting up stalls. There's one outside New Barnet Sainsbury's (which would no longer be served) this Saturday 13th Oct at 10:00 am. The consultation deadline has been extended by two weeks until 9th November - a sliver of hope for campaigners perhaps? consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/route-384/
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Post by uakari on Oct 19, 2018 12:58:33 GMT
Just a reminder that the 384 withdrawal/extension consultation has been extended until 9th November, so still time to get your views in: consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/route-384/Also see the petition: www.change.org/p/tfl-consultations-save-the-384-bus-route (lots more signatures collected on paper versions) Other options that TfL could consider to leave all of the roads currently served by the 384 with a service: - Extend the 240 from Edgware to Barnet (including possible diversion via Deansbrook Road, conversion to single decker, and quicker route eg via Marsh Lane - Hendon Wood Lane - Barnet Road - Barnet Gate Lane - Mays Lane - Chesterfield Road - Trinder Road - Wellhouse Lane - Barnet Hospital etc) - Extend the 384 via Chesterfield Road - Mays Lane - Barnet Gate Lane - Barnet Road - Hendon Wood Lane - Marsh Lane etc to make the proposed extension more direct and reliable than going via the A1. Extend the 184 to take over the Whitings Road - Quinta Drive last leg - Create a special 6xx school service for JCoSS that goes via Edgware to Barnet to JCoSS, so the 384 becomes less important in terms of this link - If they insist on diverting the 384, at least divert the 383 via Barnet Hill - Station Road - Gloucester Road - Longmore Ave - York Road - New Barnet Station: station approach so this section would still have a bus service. The section of the 383 that would then be removed is already covered by the frequent 184. Consider a late evening and Sunday service and a frequency increase on the 383.
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Post by VMH2452 on Oct 19, 2018 15:11:44 GMT
Just a reminder that the 384 withdrawal/extension consultation has been extended until 9th November, so still time to get your views in: consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/route-384/Also see the petition: www.change.org/p/tfl-consultations-save-the-384-bus-route (lots more signatures collected on paper versions) Other options that TfL could consider to leave all of the roads currently served by the 384 with a service: - Extend the 240 from Edgware to Barnet (including possible diversion via Deansbrook Road, conversion to single decker, and quicker route eg via Marsh Lane - Hendon Wood Lane - Barnet Road - Barnet Gate Lane - Mays Lane - Chesterfield Road - Trinder Road - Wellhouse Lane - Barnet Hospital etc) - Extend the 384 via Chesterfield Road - Mays Lane - Barnet Gate Lane - Barnet Road - Hendon Wood Lane - Marsh Lane etc to make the proposed extension more direct and reliable than going via the A1. Extend the 184 to take over the Whitings Road - Quinta Drive last leg - Create a special 6xx school service for JCoSS that goes via Edgware to Barnet to JCoSS, so the 384 becomes less important in terms of this link - If they insist on diverting the 384, at least divert the 383 via Barnet Hill - Station Road - Gloucester Road - Longmore Ave - York Road - New Barnet Station: station approach so this section would still have a bus service. The section of the 383 that would then be removed is already covered by the frequent 184. Consider a late evening and Sunday service and a frequency increase on the 383. The 384 option is the best. I don't think 240 should be single decked as whenever I see it (daily) it is well loaded.
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Post by uakari on Oct 19, 2018 16:28:44 GMT
Just a reminder that the 384 withdrawal/extension consultation has been extended until 9th November, so still time to get your views in: consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/route-384/Also see the petition: www.change.org/p/tfl-consultations-save-the-384-bus-route (lots more signatures collected on paper versions) Other options that TfL could consider to leave all of the roads currently served by the 384 with a service: - Extend the 240 from Edgware to Barnet (including possible diversion via Deansbrook Road, conversion to single decker, and quicker route eg via Marsh Lane - Hendon Wood Lane - Barnet Road - Barnet Gate Lane - Mays Lane - Chesterfield Road - Trinder Road - Wellhouse Lane - Barnet Hospital etc) - Extend the 384 via Chesterfield Road - Mays Lane - Barnet Gate Lane - Barnet Road - Hendon Wood Lane - Marsh Lane etc to make the proposed extension more direct and reliable than going via the A1. Extend the 184 to take over the Whitings Road - Quinta Drive last leg - Create a special 6xx school service for JCoSS that goes via Edgware to Barnet to JCoSS, so the 384 becomes less important in terms of this link - If they insist on diverting the 384, at least divert the 383 via Barnet Hill - Station Road - Gloucester Road - Longmore Ave - York Road - New Barnet Station: station approach so this section would still have a bus service. The section of the 383 that would then be removed is already covered by the frequent 184. Consider a late evening and Sunday service and a frequency increase on the 383. The 384 option is the best. I don't think 240 should be single decked as whenever I see it (daily) it is well loaded. But wouldn't a lot of those passengers on the 240 get off at Edgware or before? If you and others agree with any of these suggestions, it would really help if you could make them to TfL as a reply to the consultation - the idea of the 384 extension via the alternative roads mentioned would be especially to make it quicker, more direct and reliable between Barnet and Edgware, with the aim of then retaining it on all the roads in Barnet that it currently serves. Many thanks.
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Post by VMH2452 on Oct 19, 2018 16:36:15 GMT
The 384 option is the best. I don't think 240 should be single decked as whenever I see it (daily) it is well loaded. But wouldn't a lot of those passengers on the 240 get off at Edgware or before? If you and others agree with any of these suggestions, it would really help if you could make them to TfL as a reply to the consultation - the idea of the 384 extension via the alternative roads mentioned would be especially to make it quicker, more direct and reliable between Barnet and Edgware, with the aim of then retaining it on all the roads in Barnet that it currently serves. Many thanks. This suggested extension means the whole route has to be SD’s. Either your 384 proposal or a new route is created.
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Post by uakari on Oct 19, 2018 16:39:03 GMT
But wouldn't a lot of those passengers on the 240 get off at Edgware or before? If you and others agree with any of these suggestions, it would really help if you could make them to TfL as a reply to the consultation - the idea of the 384 extension via the alternative roads mentioned would be especially to make it quicker, more direct and reliable between Barnet and Edgware, with the aim of then retaining it on all the roads in Barnet that it currently serves. Many thanks. This suggested extension means the whole route has to be SD’s. Either your 384 proposal or a new route is created. Haven't they just decreased the frequency of the 240 from every 12 to every 15 minutes though? Perhaps they could convert it to SD and put the frequency back to every 12 minutes (improving bus services in outer London and all that)? It seems like quite short route to me, much of which is currently paralleled by the tube.
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Post by VMH2452 on Oct 19, 2018 16:42:23 GMT
This suggested extension means the whole route has to be SD’s. Either your 384 proposal or a new route is created. Haven't they just decreased the frequency of the 240 from every 12 to every 15 minutes though? Perhaps they could convert it to SD and put the frequency back to every 12 minutes (improving bus services in outer London and all that)? It seems like quite short route to me, much of which is currently paralleled by the tube. It only serves two stations on the Edgware Branch and Mill Hill East - it links up many different places that the tube doesn't serve.
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Post by uakari on Oct 19, 2018 16:48:12 GMT
This suggested extension means the whole route has to be SD’s. Either your 384 proposal or a new route is created. Haven't they just decreased the frequency of the 240 from every 12 to every 15 minutes though? Perhaps they could convert it to SD and put the frequency back to every 12 minutes (improving bus services in outer London and all that)? It seems like quite short route to me, much of which is currently paralleled by the tube. It's quite near to Brent Cross and Hendon Central too (walking distance) and it's still quite short. I don't want to make the 240 worse, but I don't want the 384 to be removed so people don't have any bus service at all. It's interesting to have this discussion because we can actually talk about alternatives, whereas TfL just seems to have drawn lines on a map without any knowledge of the roads in Barnet and how the 384 currently connects residential areas to key high streets and stations. So do you think that extending the 384 via the route I suggested but keeping on all the currently-served roads would be viable? What about the slight extension of the 184 to Quinta Drive? Can you think of any other alternatives?
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Post by VMH2452 on Oct 19, 2018 17:04:19 GMT
Haven't they just decreased the frequency of the 240 from every 12 to every 15 minutes though? Perhaps they could convert it to SD and put the frequency back to every 12 minutes (improving bus services in outer London and all that)? It seems like quite short route to me, much of which is currently paralleled by the tube. It's quite near to Brent Cross and Hendon Central too (walking distance) and it's still quite short. I don't want to make the 240 worse, but I don't want the 384 to be removed so people don't have any bus service at all. It's interesting to have this discussion because we can actually talk about alternatives, whereas TfL just seems to have drawn lines on a map without any knowledge of the roads in Barnet and how the 384 currently connects residential areas to key high streets and stations. So do you think that extending the 384 via the route I suggested but keeping on all the currently-served roads would be viable? What about the slight extension of the 184 to Quinta Drive? Can you think of any other alternatives? I think it is viable and this would probably relieve 251 in the peaks.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 19, 2018 17:14:53 GMT
This suggested extension means the whole route has to be SD’s. Either your 384 proposal or a new route is created. Haven't they just decreased the frequency of the 240 from every 12 to every 15 minutes though? Perhaps they could convert it to SD and put the frequency back to every 12 minutes (improving bus services in outer London and all that)? It seems like quite short route to me, much of which is currently paralleled by the tube. The whole 'improving Outer London' line is spin giving a number of routes that run in outer London boroughs have seen cuts - take Croydon for example where a number of routes have received cuts to frequency, PVR, or both. You also have the cutback of the final destination in the case of the 75. It's not the shortest route ever but it's aided by quite favourable traffic conditions along much of it's routing - it's also a lovely route to go on as well particularly at the northern end
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Post by VWH1414 on Oct 19, 2018 17:24:38 GMT
Haven't they just decreased the frequency of the 240 from every 12 to every 15 minutes though? Perhaps they could convert it to SD and put the frequency back to every 12 minutes (improving bus services in outer London and all that)? It seems like quite short route to me, much of which is currently paralleled by the tube. It's quite near to Brent Cross and Hendon Central too (walking distance) and it's still quite short. I don't want to make the 240 worse, but I don't want the 384 to be removed so people don't have any bus service at all. It's interesting to have this discussion because we can actually talk about alternatives, whereas TfL just seems to have drawn lines on a map without any knowledge of the roads in Barnet and how the 384 currently connects residential areas to key high streets and stations. So do you think that extending the 384 via the route I suggested but keeping on all the currently-served roads would be viable? What about the slight extension of the 184 to Quinta Drive? Can you think of any other alternatives? The 240 is fine and sees enough patronage as it is, it gives a link between Edgware and Mill Hill East (Which would mean going to Camden Town and changing for a Barnet branch train on the tube), serving Mill Hill Village, part of which is currently being redeveloped and also Millbrook Park/Mill Hill East, before making a link between Mill Hill East and Hendon (Hendon is the busiest part of the route) and then onto Golders Green, so is useful in its current form, a route does not need to be long to be useful, the only part of the route I'd change is the Edgware end, where I'd re-route it via Deansbrook Road (Old 303 route), as Hale Lane is paralleled by the 221 and Deansbrook has lost its link. Perhaps the 384 plan can go ahead, with the 389/399 being made more use of to replace some of the back roads the 384 serves, with a few more journeys a day on these routes added. The 389 could for example be extended from the Spires (Current Terminus) and follow the 384s current routing to Quinta Drive, with the route being given more journeys during the daytime, rather then just a few in the peaks.
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Post by uakari on Oct 19, 2018 17:42:51 GMT
It's quite near to Brent Cross and Hendon Central too (walking distance) and it's still quite short. I don't want to make the 240 worse, but I don't want the 384 to be removed so people don't have any bus service at all. It's interesting to have this discussion because we can actually talk about alternatives, whereas TfL just seems to have drawn lines on a map without any knowledge of the roads in Barnet and how the 384 currently connects residential areas to key high streets and stations. So do you think that extending the 384 via the route I suggested but keeping on all the currently-served roads would be viable? What about the slight extension of the 184 to Quinta Drive? Can you think of any other alternatives? The 240 is fine and sees enough patronage as it is, it gives a link between Edgware and Mill Hill East (Which would mean going to Camden Town and changing for a Barnet branch train on the tube), serving Mill Hill Village, part of which is currently being redeveloped and also Millbrook Park/Mill Hill East, before making a link between Mill Hill East and Hendon (Hendon is the busiest part of the route) and then onto Golders Green, so is useful in its current form, a route does not need to be long to be useful, the only part of the route I'd change is the Edgware end, where I'd re-route it via Deansbrook Road (Old 303 route), as Hale Lane is paralleled by the 221 and Deansbrook has lost its link. Perhaps the 384 plan can go ahead, with the 389/399 being made more use of to replace some of the back roads the 384 serves, with a few more journeys a day on these routes added. The 389 could for example be extended from the Spires (Current Terminus) and follow the 384s current routing to Quinta Drive, with the route being given more journeys during the daytime, rather then just a few in the peaks. The trouble with this is that the 389 and 399 are both currently ultra-low frequency shopping hours only services (I believe they were made into two separate routes so that there wouldn't be a double run via Salisbury Road with people getting confused as to whether the bus was going to Western Way or Hadley Wood first). The main purpose of the 389 is to connect people in the Western Way area to The Spires, and the main purpose of the 399 is to connect people in Hadley Wood to The Spires. They don't pause for long at either Western Way or Hadley Wood station, so that people can use them as a circular from whichever of the roads in those areas is nearest to them, and then an hour later catch the same route (in fact the very same bus that has turned into the other route and back in the meantime) back home. I'm not sure that TfL would countenance having a more regular bus service on Western Way, especially as that really would be a big detour for people wanting to get from High Barnet to Gloucester Avenue/Lyonsdown Road/Logmore Avenue/York Road/New Barnet station or the New Barnet/East Barnet roads. People say that the current 384 route goes 'all round the houses' but it's still a viable way of getting from High Barnet all the way to Cockfosters if you need to (ironically the only bit that seems to make it slow is the Westbrook Crescent loop, which they intend to keep). I'm not sure that a diversion all round Western Way wouldn't reduce passenger numbers further than TfL seems to think they already have reduced (that's what happens when you make that crucial every 15 to every 20 cut). I agree that the 389 and the 399 could do with a frequency increase though (the chance would be a fine thing). However, the demand between The Spires and Quinta Drive is still too high for a route like these, which is one of the reasons the 384 was extended over this section via former route 385 in 1998. Lots of shopping trips to The Spires and Barnet High Street from Quinta Drive area, only bus that takes you from the upper high street and The Spires to the hospital (plus A&E dept), Wentworth Road/Byng Road are remote from any other service and have lots of 'ordinary' houses plus two primary schools and a new children's hospice (notice how the 384 proposal would still have it stopping at the top of Wentworth Road in both directions). And people from these areas often want to go beyond High Barnet to New Barnet station, East Barnet Road or even Cockfosters and Trent Park (I know because I used to be one of these people). I doubt there'd be enough demand for both the 384 and the 389 in this area though - note that although still bad, in High Barnet it's only Alston and Strafford roads that wouldn't have a 384 in both directions, whereas on the New Barnet and East Barnet sections many roads would be left without any bus. I also agree with you about diverting the 240 via Deansbrook Road anyway, as the 221 has had a frequency increase via The Hale and the 303 is also serving that area now too. If the 240 were extended to Barnet this would also avoid a double run via Hale Lane, and connect Edgware Community Hospital with Barnet Hospital. Personally I would also divert the 114 via Hale Lane, Dean's Lane and Orange Hill Road, as this would restore the other broken link to Burnt Oak station - the 251 could probably survive on its own at the eastern end of Watling Avenue.
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