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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2018 16:42:19 GMT
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Post by sid on Sept 18, 2018 17:25:34 GMT
A very tragic case and I think it's very concerning that anybody is working those sort of hours let alone somebody of that age.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 18, 2018 17:52:47 GMT
Good grief that makes for horrific reading. I am astonished that a company like Stagecoach could allow such hours to be worked by someone so old. When I saw the headline I instantly thought it would be one of the "rag bag" West Midlands independent bus companies that was involved. Shows how wrong you can be! I suspect that for the driver "work was his life" hence his ongoing volunteering for work when there was no real need to do so. I've never seen anything like the video coverage - mind boggling stuff.
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Post by ronnie on Sept 18, 2018 19:11:52 GMT
Good grief that makes for horrific reading. I am astonished that a company like Stagecoach could allow such hours to be worked by someone so old. When I saw the headline I instantly thought it would be one of the "rag bag" West Midlands independent bus companies that was involved. Shows how wrong you can be! I suspect that for the driver "work was his life" hence his ongoing volunteering for work when there was no real need to do so. I've never seen anything like the video coverage - mind boggling stuff. Were the bus company people in their right minds? What the hell were they thinking ....
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Post by busaholic on Sept 18, 2018 20:04:19 GMT
Good grief that makes for horrific reading. I am astonished that a company like Stagecoach could allow such hours to be worked by someone so old. When I saw the headline I instantly thought it would be one of the "rag bag" West Midlands independent bus companies that was involved. Shows how wrong you can be! I suspect that for the driver "work was his life" hence his ongoing volunteering for work when there was no real need to do so. I've never seen anything like the video coverage - mind boggling stuff. Were the bus company people in their right minds? What the hell were they thinking .... Their day in court is coming. I'd be very surprised if legislation on maximum age for stage carriage bus driving doesn't result, maybe for coaches too, though I think it could be higher for the latter. I'm not being ageist, I still drive a car aged 70 and don't require glasses for anything, but I don't think I should be allowed to be in charge of a bus, even if I had the requisite licence.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 18, 2018 21:26:16 GMT
Good grief that makes for horrific reading. I am astonished that a company like Stagecoach could allow such hours to be worked by someone so old. When I saw the headline I instantly thought it would be one of the "rag bag" West Midlands independent bus companies that was involved. Shows how wrong you can be! I suspect that for the driver "work was his life" hence his ongoing volunteering for work when there was no real need to do so. I've never seen anything like the video coverage - mind boggling stuff. Were the bus company people in their right minds? What the hell were they thinking .... Well there is that. Clearly there was a lack of objective management at depot level. I suspect the driver had been so much a "part of the furniture" that people just assumed everything was as fine as it always had been. I also thought that bus drivers had to have regular health checks and driving assessments as they got older? If that is correct then what was going on with this particular driver? The article clearly cites a deterioration in his health and job performance which should have been ringing huge alarm bells with a number of people at Stagecoach.
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Post by ronnie on Sept 18, 2018 21:34:36 GMT
Were the bus company people in their right minds? What the hell were they thinking .... Well there is that. Clearly there was a lack of objective management at depot level. I suspect the driver had been so much a "part of the furniture" that people just assumed everything was as fine as it always had been. I also thought that bus drivers had to have regular health checks and driving assessments as they got older? If that is correct then what was going on with this particular driver? The article clearly cites a deterioration in his health and job performance which should have been ringing huge alarm bells with a number of people at Stagecoach. And somewhere the 70+ hour week should have been noticed. How that fell through the cracks baffles me
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Post by busaholic on Sept 18, 2018 22:59:41 GMT
Well there is that. Clearly there was a lack of objective management at depot level. I suspect the driver had been so much a "part of the furniture" that people just assumed everything was as fine as it always had been. I also thought that bus drivers had to have regular health checks and driving assessments as they got older? If that is correct then what was going on with this particular driver? The article clearly cites a deterioration in his health and job performance which should have been ringing huge alarm bells with a number of people at Stagecoach. And somewhere the 70+ hour week should have been noticed. How that fell yhrrhough the cracks baffles me The BBC 10 o'clock news report made interesting (make that disturbing) viewing. The driver had been reported numerous times, was being regularly monitored by incognito staff on board, whose reports included allegations of speeding, overshooting each and every bus stop, pulling away from a bus stop with the door open and passenger struggling to stay onboard, etc. The driver's status as ex-mayor of Leamington may have blinded Stagecoach to the bleeding obvious, that this man had become a dangerous liability and should have been prevented from driving a bus. I sincerely hope that if Stagecoach plead guilty to the various Health and Safety charges they are facing they don't thereby escape scrutiny of their actions/inactions.
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Post by joefrombow on Sept 19, 2018 0:56:02 GMT
And somewhere the 70+ hour week should have been noticed. How that fell yhrrhough the cracks baffles me The BBC 10 o'clock news report made interesting (make that disturbing) viewing. The driver had been reported numerous times, was being regularly monitored by incognito staff on board, whose reports included allegations of speeding, overshooting each and every bus stop, pulling away from a bus stop with the door open and passenger struggling to stay onboard, etc. The driver's status as ex-mayor of Leamington may have blinded Stagecoach to the bleeding obvious, that this man had become a dangerous liability and should have been prevented from driving a bus. I sincerely hope that if Stagecoach plead guilty to the various Health and Safety charges they are facing they don't thereby escape scrutiny of their actions/inactions. I work for a Distribution company we have a good few drivers here 65+ and up until January had a lovely driver here who was 78 this year and all of them are as fit as a fiddle but all our drivers have Tacho Cards and can by Law only drive for a maximum 56 hours and that's the absolute maximum the other following and preceding week would have to be 45 hours I believe , How anyone can do 70 Hours a week Driving time and in excess of 75 Hours at work or on shift is ridiculous and very clearly dangerous at any age ! How this can go on in a Big company such as Stagecoach really is shocking and how the unions have allowed this as well also shocking , Is it time Bus Drivers and I say Bus Drivers specifically as I know Coach Drivers work to the same Driving hours as HGV drivers , all started working under the same rules and regulations wether 30 miles or more or not Driving is Driving is it not ?
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Post by lwldriver on Sept 19, 2018 2:57:22 GMT
Were the bus company people in their right minds? What the hell were they thinking .... Their day in court is coming. I'd be very surprised if legislation on maximum age for stage carriage bus driving doesn't result, maybe for coaches too, though I think it could be higher for the latter. I'm not being ageist, I still drive a car aged 70 and don't require glasses for anything, but I don't think I should be allowed to be in charge of a bus, even if I had the requisite licence. Yes I agree this was a very tragic incident, however I do feel we need to steer away from this talk of an maximum age-restriction for PCV drivers. Just like those over 70 car drivers they do undergo regular medical examinations. I know of two London bus drivers who are over the age of 70 driving on Routes 37 & N3 respectively, one of which I have met and had many a conversation with and to be perfectly honest I have no doubt on his competence to do the job, I cant recall him ever having an accident or incident on his part and he actually puts many of the younger newer drivers to shame. If anything needs to come out of this then the medical tests should maybe more frequent but an outright maximum age-restriction really isnt the way forward until they get to obviously borderline ages like 80-90+.
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Post by sid on Sept 19, 2018 6:44:01 GMT
Their day in court is coming. I'd be very surprised if legislation on maximum age for stage carriage bus driving doesn't result, maybe for coaches too, though I think it could be higher for the latter. I'm not being ageist, I still drive a car aged 70 and don't require glasses for anything, but I don't think I should be allowed to be in charge of a bus, even if I had the requisite licence. Yes I agree this was a very tragic incident, however I do feel we need to steer away from this talk of an maximum age-restriction for PCV drivers. Just like those over 70 car drivers they do undergo regular medical examinations. I know of two London bus drivers who are over the age of 70 driving on Routes 37 & N3 respectively, one of which I have met and had many a conversation with and to be perfectly honest I have no doubt on his competence to do the job, I cant recall him ever having an accident or incident on his part and he actually puts many of the younger newer drivers to shame. If anything needs to come out of this then the medical tests should maybe more frequent but an outright maximum age-restriction really isnt the way forward until they get to obviously borderline ages like 80-90+. I think there should be more concern about driving hours rather than the age of the driver. Five and a half hours without a break, it's four and a half hours driving a lorry, and it seems astonishing that a bus driver can legally work 13 consecutive days.
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Post by busman on Sept 19, 2018 9:27:40 GMT
Link has been removed....
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Post by rambo on Sept 19, 2018 19:32:41 GMT
But he was driving legally though.
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Post by busaholic on Sept 19, 2018 20:13:19 GMT
But he was driving legally though. In what way?
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Post by busaholic on Sept 19, 2018 20:30:22 GMT
Their day in court is coming. I'd be very surprised if legislation on maximum age for stage carriage bus driving doesn't result, maybe for coaches too, though I think it could be higher for the latter. I'm not being ageist, I still drive a car aged 70 and don't require glasses for anything, but I don't think I should be allowed to be in charge of a bus, even if I had the requisite licence. Yes I agree this was a very tragic incident, however I do feel we need to steer away from this talk of an maximum age-restriction for PCV drivers. Just like those over 70 car drivers they do undergo regular medical examinations. I know of two London bus drivers who are over the age of 70 driving on Routes 37 & N3 respectively, one of which I have met and had many a conversation with and to be perfectly honest I have no doubt on his competence to do the job, I cant recall him ever having an accident or incident on his part and he actually puts many of the younger newer drivers to shame. If anything needs to come out of this then the medical tests should maybe more frequent but an outright maximum age-restriction really isnt the way forward until they get to obviously borderline ages like 80-90+. I wasn't saying that 70 should be the cut-off, but I don't believe that a person aged 75 or over should be allowed to drive a bus in public service; this will be 'unfair' on the tiny minority of drivers over that age who would appear not to be subject to the same process of ageing as the majority, but so be it. By the way, the medical test I had to pass when I had to renew my car driving licence a few months ago was filling in a form in which I confirmed, honestly, that I didn't suffer from any of the conditions specified and I self-certified my absolute right to continue driving! The licence was duly granted, as it probably would have been if I'd lied convincingly. Another factor, which could be an 'aggravating' one in this case, is that only physical health is really considered. Memory loss/dementia is the elephant in the room. The days when a bus driver got in his (always his) cab and just drove while the conductor dealt with pesky passengers, with all their demands and not knowing what the fares are/where they want to go, etc, are long gone, never to return. The modern bus driving job is not for the fainthearted, nor for the elderly!
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