|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 21, 2019 19:53:30 GMT
So, someone falls in front of train yesterday at Oxford Circus. TfL deny result of overcrowding. Figures show Highbury & Islington, Finsbury Park and Oxford Circus are the worst for overcrowding and temporary closing. Reducing buses in these areas increase people using the tube. Go figure. It's exactly what I've been saying for ages - the tube system has been severly overcrowded for a number of years now yet TfL obviously haven't realised this because cutting bus routes certainly won't help the situation nor will it on the trains. Unless you have integrated system between the different parts of public transport, then it all falls down. Couldn't agree more with this, the tube doesn't have unlimited capacity - not to mention Crossrail is showing no signs of being open at all yet TfL are cutting absolutely everything they can in Central London. It's a bit ridiculous the tube is at breaking point in most locations yet TfL are happy to pile more load onto it. With this situation now I honestly hope PEDs get rolled out sooner rather than later, a line like the Victoria could quite easily accommodate them along the whole line.
|
|
|
Post by kenmet on Nov 21, 2019 19:58:50 GMT
Sorry but it was you that used the phrase "go figure". If accidents like this were happening on a regular basis there may be something in what you say but to the best of my knowledge they are not. Well perhaps you could do some research like the BBC have done , and report back to the group. You used the phrase "go figure" rudely towards an individual. I used it collectively towards a situation. There is a difference. The phrase is either offensive or it isn't. I think opinions will probably vary about any research that the BBC have done. The tube is a victim of its own success and always has been.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 20:05:23 GMT
Well perhaps you could do some research like the BBC have done , and report back to the group. You used the phrase "go figure" rudely towards an individual. I used it collectively towards a situation. There is a difference. The phrase is either offensive or it isn't. I think opinions will probably vary about any research that the BBC have done. The tube is a victim of its own success and always has been. Yes the way you used it was offensive and you knew it. No apology noted.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 20:13:30 GMT
The phrase is either offensive or it isn't. I think opinions will probably vary about any research that the BBC have done. The tube is a victim of its own success and always has been. Yes the way you used it was offensive and you knew it. No apology noted. Both used the same phrase. Stop trying to score points. 🙄
|
|
|
Post by rmz19 on Nov 21, 2019 20:30:57 GMT
So, someone falls in front of train yesterday at Oxford Circus. TfL deny result of overcrowding. Figures show Highbury & Islington, Finsbury Park and Oxford Circus are the worst for overcrowding and temporary closing. Reducing buses in these areas increase people using the tube. Go figure. It's really terrible situations like this that absolutely justifies the use of platform barriers across the ENTIRE network like the ones used on the eastern part of the Jubilee Line. What's worse is that there was no crowd management at all at the time of the incident according to some tweets. The safety of commuters is paramount and why barriers haven't been installed is utterly shameful, especially in a city like London. Heck they don't even have to be 'sophisticated' like the Jubilee Line ones, it can be of partial height like the ones used on Line 1 of the Paris Metro to minimize cost. But in the grand scheme of things cost shouldn't be an excuse when it comes to the safety of the public.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 20:33:35 GMT
Well perhaps you could do some research like the BBC have done , and report back to the group. You used the phrase "go figure" rudely towards an individual. I used it collectively towards a situation. There is a difference. The phrase is either offensive or it isn't. I think opinions will probably vary about any research that the BBC have done. The tube is a victim of its own success and always has been. In the past it might have been but now it is under much more pressure with all the displaced passengers from bus routes like the 25! Or you going to now say they use other bus routes were as when the cuts were announced you was saying they can use the tube as a alternative.
|
|
|
Post by kenmet on Nov 21, 2019 20:48:17 GMT
So, someone falls in front of train yesterday at Oxford Circus. TfL deny result of overcrowding. Figures show Highbury & Islington, Finsbury Park and Oxford Circus are the worst for overcrowding and temporary closing. Reducing buses in these areas increase people using the tube. Go figure. It's really terrible situations like this that absolutely justifies the use of platform barriers across the ENTIRE network like the ones used on the eastern part of the Jubilee Line. What's worse is that there was no crowd management at all at the time of the incident according to some tweets. The safety of commuters is paramount and why barriers haven't been installed is utterly shameful, especially in a city like London. Heck they don't even have to be 'sophisticated' like the Jubilee Line ones, it can be of partial height like the ones used on Line 1 of the Paris Metro to minimize cost. But in the grand scheme of things cost shouldn't be an excuse when it comes to the safety of the public. Heck it's easy installing them on new lines like the JLE,and their main purpose is draught management, quite a different matter trying to retrospectively fit them on existing platforms. If you've ever been to Stevenage there are two island platforms that can get crowded and trains hurtling through at over 100mph, that's a far more deserving case than anywhere on London Underground.
|
|
|
Post by John tuthill on Nov 21, 2019 21:23:29 GMT
So, someone falls in front of train yesterday at Oxford Circus. TfL deny result of overcrowding. Figures show Highbury & Islington, Finsbury Park and Oxford Circus are the worst for overcrowding and temporary closing. Reducing buses in these areas increase people using the tube. Go figure. It's really terrible situations like this that absolutely justifies the use of platform barriers across the ENTIRE network like the ones used on the eastern part of the Jubilee Line. What's worse is that there was no crowd management at all at the time of the incident according to some tweets. The safety of commuters is paramount and why barriers haven't been installed is utterly shameful, especially in a city like London. Heck they don't even have to be 'sophisticated' like the Jubilee Line ones, it can be of partial height like the ones used on Line 1 of the Paris Metro to minimize cost. But in the grand scheme of things cost shouldn't be an excuse when it comes to the safety of the public. I don't know if it's an illusion, but when I used to use the Victoria Line many years ago, I had the feeling that the platforms seemed narrower than other lines?
|
|
|
Post by rif153 on Nov 21, 2019 21:36:28 GMT
The phrase is either offensive or it isn't. I think opinions will probably vary about any research that the BBC have done. The tube is a victim of its own success and always has been. In the past it might have been but now it is under much more pressure with all the displaced passengers from bus routes like the 25! Or you going to now say they use other bus routes were as when the cuts were announced you was saying they can use the tube as a alternative. Exactly, the lack of buses to pick up the slack in scenarios such as these is an utter disgrace. I can imagine the 94 got incrediby packed, but had all the Oxford Street bus cuts gone ahead then there would have been many a full bus leaving people behind on Oxford Street West, as I'm sure chronic ovecrowding occured, likewise with routes heading east from Oxford Circus yet the lack of the 25 paralleling the Central Line is diabolical.
|
|
|
Post by routew15 on Nov 21, 2019 21:42:45 GMT
It's really terrible situations like this that absolutely justifies the use of platform barriers across the ENTIRE network like the ones used on the eastern part of the Jubilee Line. What's worse is that there was no crowd management at all at the time of the incident according to some tweets. The safety of commuters is paramount and why barriers haven't been installed is utterly shameful, especially in a city like London. Heck they don't even have to be 'sophisticated' like the Jubilee Line ones, it can be of partial height like the ones used on Line 1 of the Paris Metro to minimize cost. But in the grand scheme of things cost shouldn't be an excuse when it comes to the safety of the public. Heck it's easy installing them on new lines like the JLE,and their main purpose is draught management, quite a different matter trying to retrospectively fit them on existing platforms. If you've ever been to Stevenage there are two island platforms that can get crowded and trains hurtling through at over 100mph, that's a far more deserving case than anywhere on London Underground. draught management ? Can’t tell if you are being serious. Retrofitting is not impossible on the Underground is it costly and probably why it has not been done yet. I don’t see the logic in Stevenage being a priority over a station like Oxford Circus or even Stratford. That sounds bizarre
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 21, 2019 21:42:58 GMT
It's really terrible situations like this that absolutely justifies the use of platform barriers across the ENTIRE network like the ones used on the eastern part of the Jubilee Line. What's worse is that there was no crowd management at all at the time of the incident according to some tweets. The safety of commuters is paramount and why barriers haven't been installed is utterly shameful, especially in a city like London. Heck they don't even have to be 'sophisticated' like the Jubilee Line ones, it can be of partial height like the ones used on Line 1 of the Paris Metro to minimize cost. But in the grand scheme of things cost shouldn't be an excuse when it comes to the safety of the public. Heck it's easy installing them on new lines like the JLE,and their main purpose is draught management, quite a different matter trying to retrospectively fit them on existing platforms. If you've ever been to Stevenage there are two island platforms that can get crowded and trains hurtling through at over 100mph, that's a far more deserving case than anywhere on London Underground. However I don't think Stevenage often has people pushing and shoving on platforms where there's limited space. Not to mention Stevenage isn't actually TfL's problem while the Underground is. I know fitting PEDs is easier said than done, which is why I specifically suggested the Victoria Line initially because all its platforms are straight and the slightly more modern nature of the line should make it just that bit easier. But at a time when safety is paramount it's a cost that can be justified - unlike the money being spent on branding. I agree with rmz19 where if the cost of full height ones is too much where a least some half height ones can be installed.
|
|
|
Post by rif153 on Nov 21, 2019 21:49:16 GMT
Heck it's easy installing them on new lines like the JLE,and their main purpose is draught management, quite a different matter trying to retrospectively fit them on existing platforms. If you've ever been to Stevenage there are two island platforms that can get crowded and trains hurtling through at over 100mph, that's a far more deserving case than anywhere on London Underground. However I don't think Stevenage often has people pushing and shoving on platforms where there's limited space. Not to mention Stevenage isn't actually TfL's problem while the Underground is. I know fitting PEDs is easier said than done, which is why I specifically suggested the Victoria Line initially because all its platforms are straight and the slightly more modern nature of the line should make it just that bit easier. But at a time when safety is paramount it's a cost that can be justified - unlike the money being spent on branding. I agree with rmz19 where if the cost of full height ones is too much where a least some half height ones can be installed. I wonder if one reason for reluctance to install PEDs/PSDs, other than expense, is due to their nature. Once you install them, it will be very expensive to alter the station for future growth, and platform widening such as the Northern Line at Bank is almost out of the question. Whilst I support installations of PEDs, I'm playing devil's advocate and suggesting that perhaps making narrow platforms permanent could be a reason for reluctance to install PEDs.
|
|
|
Post by M1104 on Nov 21, 2019 23:02:17 GMT
I don't know if it's an illusion, but when I used to use the Victoria Line many years ago, I had the feeling that the platforms seemed narrower than other lines? If you think that's narrow try the island platforms at Clapham Common and Clapham North on the Northern Line, used for both directions. Angel Station also used to be that way before the rebuild.
|
|
|
Post by redbus on Nov 21, 2019 23:25:00 GMT
Heck it's easy installing them on new lines like the JLE,and their main purpose is draught management, quite a different matter trying to retrospectively fit them on existing platforms. If you've ever been to Stevenage there are two island platforms that can get crowded and trains hurtling through at over 100mph, that's a far more deserving case than anywhere on London Underground. draught management ? Can’t tell if you are being serious. Retrofitting is not impossible on the Underground is it costly and probably why it has not been done yet. I don’t see the logic in Stevenage being a priority over a station like Oxford Circus or even Stratford. That sounds bizarre I believe it has been reported elsewhere (London Reconnections I think) that the primary driver for having the full height JLE PEDs is draught management. How true this is or why it is needed for that reason on JLE I don't know. Crowding apparently was not the driver for PEDs on the JLE.
In terms of cost installing PEDs on existing lines it is very high. It is not just the cost of the PEDs it is getting the trains to stop exactly in the right place for the PEDs, linking into the trains and signalling system (assuming that is possible / economical). Once you install PEDs then when it comes to replacing trains you have an issue as you have to buy trains with doors in exactly the same places as the old ones. That can mean a lack of standardisation and increase in cost when you buy new trains.
Back to buses, and I agree that it would appear that TfL seem to want to force a modal change towards the tube away from buses either consciously or sub-consously.
|
|
|
Post by Alex on Nov 21, 2019 23:25:39 GMT
draught management ? Can’t tell if you are being serious. Yep that's totally serious. The draughts in this case being to control air flows in the event of a fire, working with big fans in shafts near stations to assist this to work. The part whereby people couldn't fall onto the track was a nice byproduct Not so nice though when the trains went from six to seven cars and the PED doors all had to be moved...... EDIT: Seen this touched upon above, and back to buses......
|
|