|
Post by M1104 on Sept 28, 2018 22:12:00 GMT
Interesting consultation 343 to Aldgate? The 343 is dead from Elephant & Castle to Ciry Hall. So use the 343 to compensate the 40? What were they thinking. Agreed! They'd also be three routes crossing the Tower Bridge from somewhat the same areas of South East London. With the 45 to be curtailed back to Elephant, perhaps that could be extended via the 343 and Tower Bridge to Aldgate... allowing the 343 to be rerouted elsewhere to another terminus.
|
|
|
Post by danorak on Sept 28, 2018 22:19:18 GMT
Has the decision not to proceed with the 3 to Russell Square been addressed anywhere or are they just hoping we've forgotten about it?
|
|
|
Post by overgroundcommuter on Sept 28, 2018 22:29:59 GMT
Interesting consultation 343 to Aldgate? The 343 is dead from Elephant & Castle to Ciry Hall. So use the 343 to compensate the 40? What were they thinking. Agreed! They'd also be three routes crossing the Tower Bridge from somewhat the same areas of South East London. With the 45 to be curtailed back to Elephant, perhaps that could be extended via the 343 and Tower Bridge to Aldgate... allowing the 343 to be rerouted elsewhere to another terminus. The Aylesbury Estate will have TWO routes serving Tower Bridge with the 42 and the 343, although the City Hall terminus already is a short walk to Tower Bridge.
|
|
|
Post by busman on Sept 28, 2018 22:42:01 GMT
The 853 blog let the cat out of the bag already, but these changes will do nothing to attract people to the bus network. Obviously TfL need to make cost savings, which is highlighted in their analysis of each cut, but the irony is that the hopper fare has made these cuts possible and the fare freeze has made the cuts deeper than if TfL were able to increase fares. Thank you Sadiq 👍 What's to say that a Tory Mayor wouldn't have the same issues as Sadiq has? TfL has lost funding from central Government, fares freeze and hopper fare or not, something had to give. The congestion charge no longer works, considering how bad traffic is in Zone 1, passengers by their own choice have switched to rail modes as standing on a cramped tube or train is preferable to sitting in a traffic jam to go a mile down the road for 25-30 minutes. It was Sadiq Khan’s policy to implement a fare freeze and the hopper fare. That’s not a Labour or Tory policy, but something that he personally committed to in full knowledge of the imminent cuts put in place by Boris Johnson and George Osborne. An awful decision that shows what happens when you give things away - they eventually have to be paid for somehow. I did have a wry smile as I read in every single area consultation “Our Hopper fare means there is no longer an additional fare for changing onto additional buses within one hour” being used to stick 2 fingers up at passengers who would be inconvenienced by the cuts. It’s almost like someone in TfL was trying to make a point. Clearly Sadiq Khan’s policy has made this outcome possible wouldn’t you agree?
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Sept 28, 2018 23:48:52 GMT
What's to say that a Tory Mayor wouldn't have the same issues as Sadiq has? TfL has lost funding from central Government, fares freeze and hopper fare or not, something had to give. The congestion charge no longer works, considering how bad traffic is in Zone 1, passengers by their own choice have switched to rail modes as standing on a cramped tube or train is preferable to sitting in a traffic jam to go a mile down the road for 25-30 minutes. It was Sadiq Khan’s policy to implement a fare freeze and the hopper fare. That’s not a Labour or Tory policy, but something that he personally committed to in full knowledge of the imminent cuts put in place by Boris Johnson and George Osborne. An awful decision that shows what happens when you give things away - they eventually have to be paid for somehow. I did have a wry smile as I read in every single area consultation “Our Hopper fare means there is no longer an additional fare for changing onto additional buses within one hour” being used to stick 2 fingers up at passengers who would be inconvenienced by the cuts. It’s almost like someone in TfL was trying to make a point. Clearly Sadiq Khan’s policy has made this outcome possible wouldn’t you agree? Absolutely, we all can blame Boris for the subsidy being removed but if Kahn had a brain, he would of not resorted to populist policies that have no thought behind them such as the fares freeze or the hopper fare at a time when the coffers were empty.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Sept 28, 2018 23:53:37 GMT
Had to laugh at those who think the changes aren’t too bad - glad your not on low wage having to commute into Central London! And I have to laugh at those who talk about buses as though they are some sort of enthusiasts play thing. Do they really not see the amount of under utilised buses in Central London? I'd actually be more concerned about the 468 reduction happening tomorrow and the effect that is going to have at the Croydon end whilst the other end of the route remains over bussed, you couldn't make it up! Who said anything about a enthusiasts play thing? Like it or not, there is still an important role to be played by buses in Central London and these awful changes only do harm rather than good.
|
|
|
Post by sid on Sept 29, 2018 5:29:34 GMT
And I have to laugh at those who talk about buses as though they are some sort of enthusiasts play thing. Do they really not see the amount of under utilised buses in Central London? I'd actually be more concerned about the 468 reduction happening tomorrow and the effect that is going to have at the Croydon end whilst the other end of the route remains over bussed, you couldn't make it up! Who said anything about a enthusiasts play thing? Like it or not, there is still an important role to be played by buses in Central London and these awful changes only do harm rather than good. It's a case of supply and demand.
|
|
|
Post by sid on Sept 29, 2018 5:43:37 GMT
What's to say that a Tory Mayor wouldn't have the same issues as Sadiq has? TfL has lost funding from central Government, fares freeze and hopper fare or not, something had to give. The congestion charge no longer works, considering how bad traffic is in Zone 1, passengers by their own choice have switched to rail modes as standing on a cramped tube or train is preferable to sitting in a traffic jam to go a mile down the road for 25-30 minutes. It was Sadiq Khan’s policy to implement a fare freeze and the hopper fare. That’s not a Labour or Tory policy, but something that he personally committed to in full knowledge of the imminent cuts put in place by Boris Johnson and George Osborne. An awful decision that shows what happens when you give things away - they eventually have to be paid for somehow. I did have a wry smile as I read in every single area consultation “Our Hopper fare means there is no longer an additional fare for changing onto additional buses within one hour” being used to stick 2 fingers up at passengers who would be inconvenienced by the cuts. It’s almost like someone in TfL was trying to make a point. Clearly Sadiq Khan’s policy has made this outcome possible wouldn’t you agree? A fares freeze and hopper fare were in Sadiq Khan's manifesto and he was voted into office accordingly and most people seem quite happy with it, I don't see too many demands for a fares increase. Many other capital cities have a one hour ticket or something similar and clearly hopper fare is here to stay and I don't see what a fare increase will achieve other than a further drop in usage. On the subject of giving things away, Ken Livingstone's free travel means many people can't get on buses in the morning during school term. TfL now have some very real onstreet competition in the shape of uber and the like and people are voting with their feet.
|
|
|
Post by busman on Sept 29, 2018 7:07:26 GMT
It was Sadiq Khan’s policy to implement a fare freeze and the hopper fare. That’s not a Labour or Tory policy, but something that he personally committed to in full knowledge of the imminent cuts put in place by Boris Johnson and George Osborne. An awful decision that shows what happens when you give things away - they eventually have to be paid for somehow. I did have a wry smile as I read in every single area consultation “Our Hopper fare means there is no longer an additional fare for changing onto additional buses within one hour” being used to stick 2 fingers up at passengers who would be inconvenienced by the cuts. It’s almost like someone in TfL was trying to make a point. Clearly Sadiq Khan’s policy has made this outcome possible wouldn’t you agree? A fares freeze and hopper fare were in Sadiq Khan's manifesto and he was voted into office according and most people seem quite happy with it, I don't see too many demands for a fares increase. Many other capital cities have a one hour ticket or something similar and clearly hopper fare is here to stay, I don't see what a fare increase will achieve other than a further drop in usage. I don’t see what bus cuts during peak hours will achieve other than a drop in usage 🤷♂️ Just because people voted for Sadiq Khan, it doesn’t absolve him of responsibility for the outcomes of his policies. Also a vote for a politician or party isn’t necessarily an endorsement of 100% of their policies. Yes, many other capital cities have hopper fares but many (if not most?) also receive a government subsidy so we’re not comparing apples with apples. I don’t blame TfL for these cuts as they are implementing the will of the Mayor. The Mayor’s policies to date have resulted in increased congestion in central and outer London, slower bus journeys, fewer buses, and less money in the TfL coffers to the tune of over £700M over 4 years. The annual cost of the hopper fare was estimated to be £35M. The latest round of bus cuts will bring in tremendous savings added up earlier by another poster to be £22.5M. These cuts are merely TfL balancing the books.
|
|
|
Post by lonmark on Sept 29, 2018 7:16:38 GMT
I look into very careful of this review.
Do I start thinking about how many bus operators face to cut the bus drivers and losing more works? Also, who will take over the new routes? Where is buses will go if not need for many routes in Central London?
|
|
|
Post by ADH45258 on Sept 29, 2018 7:20:45 GMT
Interesting consultation 343 to Aldgate? The 343 is dead from Elephant & Castle to Ciry Hall. So use the 343 to compensate the 40? What were they thinking. Agreed! They'd also be three routes crossing the Tower Bridge from somewhat the same areas of South East London. With the 45 to be curtailed back to Elephant, perhaps that could be extended via the 343 and Tower Bridge to Aldgate... allowing the 343 to be rerouted elsewhere to another terminus. Or instead, simply leave the 45 as it is, and divert the 40 via City Hall and Tower Bridge.
|
|
|
Post by ADH45258 on Sept 29, 2018 7:23:49 GMT
Here’s what I find stupid about the 388. Okay yes, I can fully believe that the extension to E&C had made the route pretty unreliable. BUT: it had an increase of 1 MILLION journeys last year, which is a BIG increase. With numbers like that surely the extension can be deemed as a success? So why the hell undo it? The utter disgracefulness of the written presentation of this consultation is a clear indication of an organisation in total disarray. And the 100 was well used on this section before being cut back.
|
|
|
Post by rj131 on Sept 29, 2018 7:27:33 GMT
Here’s what I find stupid about the 388. Okay yes, I can fully believe that the extension to E&C had made the route pretty unreliable. BUT: it had an increase of 1 MILLION journeys last year, which is a BIG increase. With numbers like that surely the extension can be deemed as a success? So why the hell undo it? The utter disgracefulness of the written presentation of this consultation is a clear indication of an organisation in total disarray. And the 100 was well used on this section before being cut back. That’s why I’m sure the 388 increase is because of that section. Since being extended the 388 had a million extra, and since being cut back the 100 lost a million. Coincidence? I think not
|
|
|
Post by ADH45258 on Sept 29, 2018 7:29:50 GMT
We all knew this was coming, and after sitting on a 9 for an hour between Trafalgar Square and Kensington recently, because of traffic, the mayor needs can pat himself on the back. Because Central London is the slowest I can ever remember. Oh it's really bad. I now have to commute once a week on the 176 to Tottenham Court Road. A 'quick' journey from just past Dulwich Library to TCR during the workday now takes 75 minutes (it's timetabled for 77 minutes from my stop) with huge padding between Trafalgar Square and TCR of 15 minutes to go along the Charing Cross Road. Last week, it took me 95 mins to get to TCR at lunchtime with 25 mins of that stuck on Charing Cross Road. I remember when it'd take 45 mins to get to Trafalgar Square during the daytime and 50 to TCR. The 20mph speed limits have a lot to answer for. And with the 176, none of its busy corridors are really being reduced. The 171 will not make a lot of difference along Kingsway. There is a reduction over Waterloo Bridge (4/171/RV1), but this is just a short section. Waterloo-Elephant only loses the 171, and Elephant-Camberwell is very overbused, and has no change at all. One step would be to fully withdraw route 171, with the 172 extended from Brockley to Bellingham (via the 171). The 12/68/172 would continue most links.
|
|
|
Post by sid on Sept 29, 2018 8:06:57 GMT
A fares freeze and hopper fare were in Sadiq Khan's manifesto and he was voted into office according and most people seem quite happy with it, I don't see too many demands for a fares increase. Many other capital cities have a one hour ticket or something similar and clearly hopper fare is here to stay, I don't see what a fare increase will achieve other than a further drop in usage. I don’t see what bus cuts during peak hours will achieve other than a drop in usage 🤷♂️ Just because people voted for Sadiq Khan, it doesn’t absolve him of responsibility for the outcomes of his policies. Also a vote for a politician or party isn’t necessarily an endorsement of 100% of their policies. Yes, many other capital cities have hopper fares but many (if not most?) also receive a government subsidy so we’re not comparing apples with apples. I don’t blame TfL for these cuts as they are implementing the will of the Mayor. The Mayor’s policies to date have resulted in increased congestion in central and outer London, slower bus journeys, fewer buses, and less money in the TfL coffers to the tune of over £700M over 4 years. The annual cost of the hopper fare was estimated to be £35M. The latest round of bus cuts will bring in tremendous savings added up earlier by another poster to be £22.5M. These cuts are merely TfL balancing the books. I agree that it doesn't absolve Sadiq Khan of any responsibility but most people seem to be quite happy with the fares freeze and hopper fare and probably take the view that cutting under used services in order to keep fares down is a small price to pay.
|
|