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Post by arrivaarriva on Oct 16, 2018 6:20:38 GMT
I hope it's not a dumb question. I am asking because I recently read an article that implied that First "sold" its garages AND vehicles. I've always thought that the vehicles themselves are owned by TfL and are dished out to the respective companies in accordance with the number of vehicles required for each route operated.
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Post by sid on Oct 16, 2018 6:41:28 GMT
I hope it's not a dumb question. I am asking because I recently read an article that implied that First "sold" its garages AND vehicles. I've always thought that the vehicles themselves are owned by TfL and are dished out to the respective companies in accordance with the number of vehicles required for each route operated. The LT's are owned by TfL and a few other buses, I think RM's on the 15H are and hydrogen buses on the RV1 are, but most buses are owned or leased by the operator. |
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Post by M1104 on Oct 16, 2018 10:09:18 GMT
I hope it's not a dumb question. I am asking because I recently read an article that implied that First "sold" its garages AND vehicles. I've always thought that the vehicles themselves are owned by TfL and are dished out to the respective companies in accordance with the number of vehicles required for each route operated. Not a dumb question at all, a very plausible one in fact. Generally some London buses are company owned by the individual firms, some are TfL owned and some are leased from various dealerships. Each company has a different ratio of what they own against what's leased. Not sure if you've noticed but on many occasions newer buses get withdrawn whilst older buses are kept on, that's where the newer ones tend to be the ones acquired on lease and are now being returned whereas the older ones are used for as long as possible (getting their money's worth) before being sold on or scrapped. As already mentioned all the LTs belong to TfL as well as the handful of electric buses allocated to the 69 and 312. There are quite a few other TfL owned buses around the capital. I believe some former London Transport bus garages are also owned where others are leased. |
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Post by snoggle on Oct 16, 2018 11:28:36 GMT
I hope it's not a dumb question. I am asking because I recently read an article that implied that First "sold" its garages AND vehicles. I've always thought that the vehicles themselves are owned by TfL and are dished out to the respective companies in accordance with the number of vehicles required for each route operated. Before the 1980s London Transport owned all the red buses in London. When route tendering was introduced the private companies who won contracts used their own buses to run the services. Some of those buses were directly owned and a few were leased given contracts were a lot shorter in those early days. Later on the government order LT to reorganise its bus business and prepare it for privatisation. This meant that publicly owned assets (buses, garages, equipment and spares) were all sold off to private companies or the old London Buses businesses privatised themselves - Metroline is a good example. Once everything was sold off there were only a tiny number of residual vehicles retained by London Transport. In 2000 Transport for London was formed and it took over most of LT's responsibilities and other roles like the Public Carriage Office. The tube was left out for a few years because of the PPP. The biggest change in terms of vehicle ownership took place under TfL as it encouraged the use of new technologies - many of the early hybrid / electric / hydrogen buses are / were owned by TfL. Then we had the 1,000 NB4Ls which are owned by TfL and leased at a nominal fee to the bus companies. Otherwise all the buses, service vans and cars (for driver changeovers) are either owned directly by the private bus companies or are leased for specific contract terms. Singapore uses the concept you mention. All the buses were bought by the government when they introduced a system of contracted bus operation. The buses are leased back to the contracted operators. Previously all the buses were owned by SBS Transit or SMRT Buses plus a few small companies that ran a few special services. |
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Post by sid on Oct 17, 2018 20:19:32 GMT
I hope it's not a dumb question. I am asking because I recently read an article that implied that First "sold" its garages AND vehicles. I've always thought that the vehicles themselves are owned by TfL and are dished out to the respective companies in accordance with the number of vehicles required for each route operated. Not a dumb question at all, a very plausible one in fact. Generally some London buses are company owned by the individual firms, some are TfL owned and some are leased from various dealerships. Each company has a different ratio of what they own against what's leased. Not sure if you've noticed but on many occasions newer buses get withdrawn whilst older buses are kept on, that's where the newer ones tend to be the ones acquired on lease and are now being returned whereas the older ones are used for as long as possible (getting their money's worth) before being sold on or scrapped. As already mentioned all the LTs belong to TfL as well as the handful of electric buses allocated to the 69 and 312. There are quite a few other TfL owned buses around the capital. I believe some former London Transport bus garages are also owned where others are leased. I think the electric buses on the 312 are owned by Arriva. |
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 17, 2018 22:46:23 GMT
Not a dumb question at all, a very plausible one in fact. Generally some London buses are company owned by the individual firms, some are TfL owned and some are leased from various dealerships. Each company has a different ratio of what they own against what's leased. Not sure if you've noticed but on many occasions newer buses get withdrawn whilst older buses are kept on, that's where the newer ones tend to be the ones acquired on lease and are now being returned whereas the older ones are used for as long as possible (getting their money's worth) before being sold on or scrapped. As already mentioned all the LTs belong to TfL as well as the handful of electric buses allocated to the 69 and 312. There are quite a few other TfL owned buses around the capital. I believe some former London Transport bus garages are also owned where others are leased. I think the electric buses on the 312 are owned by Arriva. My understanding is EMC1&2 are leased from TfL and EMC3-9 leased from a regular leasing company ... no idea of the position with EMC10 |
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