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Post by arrivaarriva on Oct 16, 2018 20:42:22 GMT
I guess they must have been the cheapest thing around at the time, or was it a buy 100 get 50 free deal? Only out in London's leafy suburbs are there nice single deck buses that are a pleasure to ride on. Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted |
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 16, 2018 20:55:19 GMT
Probably the fact it was the successor to the Dennis Dart which probably was the most popular single docker of all time.
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Post by planesandtrains on Oct 16, 2018 21:16:37 GMT
It was the only real lightweight single decker out there at the time. Lightweight single deckers are cheaper to buy, run and maintain.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 16, 2018 22:12:51 GMT
I guess they must have been the cheapest thing around at the time, or was it a buy 100 get 50 free deal? Only out in London's leafy suburbs are there nice single deck buses that are a pleasure to ride on. View AttachmentView AttachmentLondon has long had a history of preferring cheaper & lighter single deckers which can fit down smaller roads of which there are many in London - as southlondonbus mentioned, they had probably the most popular single decker ever in the good old Dart which came in many shapes & sizes (wonder if it pips the Solos which was also extremely popular). Outside London, roads are generally wider and you end up with more longer & heavy duty single deckers such as the many Wright single deckers, Enviro 300's, etc. |
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Post by snoggle on Oct 17, 2018 9:02:56 GMT
I guess they must have been the cheapest thing around at the time, or was it a buy 100 get 50 free deal? Only out in London's leafy suburbs are there nice single deck buses that are a pleasure to ride on. This is just to add to what the 3 previous posts said (I agree with all those comments). While Dennis / ADL probably didn't offer quite the scale of discount you suggest I think we can probably take it as read that prices were very competitive as were any support / maintenance deals. Coupled with all of the other advantages already listed it's no surprise that the E200 was a successful bus for London. I can understand why enthusiasts might be rather bored with them but they strike me as perfectly serviceable vehicles and that is what the London system tends to push for. It doesn't incentivise flashy, high spec vehicles. |
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Post by ThinLizzy on Oct 18, 2018 18:16:57 GMT
I guess they must have been the cheapest thing around at the time, or was it a buy 100 get 50 free deal? Only out in London's leafy suburbs are there nice single deck buses that are a pleasure to ride on. View AttachmentView Attachment The problem is thus- The Volvo B6BLE was an awful contraption, anybody who purchased them wished they hadn't. If Volvo had produced an equally good product things would have been different The Dennis Dart and the subsequent Dart SLF and then the E200 came at the right time. As others have said it's cheap, easy to maintain, good for fuel and comes in all sizes- if I was an engineering director of a bus company I'd love to have something that suits all my single deck needs from tiny buses round estates to big long single deckers. The E200 fits that bill. I think we also need to look at the competitions- Optares have a really poor record reliability wise, they really haven't aged well with Stagecoach in comparison to similar aged E200s Volvo/Wright- heavy, rattly Wrightbus bodywork and almost a mountain to climb to get to the back seats Mercedes Citaro- lovely bus, I'd go as far as to say my absolute favourite BUT, as we've seen with Stagecoach and MB not the most reliable buses Personally, I don't have a problem with the E200, in fact I'm sad to see the 13-reg ones leave RM and the MMC version is even better. At the end of the day, the Enviro range does the job, as a passenger they're a pretty good product. In my mind, better looking than the Streetline, Versa, Eclipse, Solo, eVora, Chose to etc- the internal layout is on point must better than the Wrightbus range. I do wonder if people in Berlin and other Europan cities think "oh not another Citaro" |
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Post by sid on Oct 18, 2018 18:38:32 GMT
I guess they must have been the cheapest thing around at the time, or was it a buy 100 get 50 free deal? Only out in London's leafy suburbs are there nice single deck buses that are a pleasure to ride on. View AttachmentView Attachment The problem is thus- The Volvo B6BLE was an awful contraption, anybody who purchased them wished they hadn't. If Volvo had produced an equally good product things would have been different The Dennis Dart and the subsequent Dart SLF and then the E200 came at the right time. As others have said it's cheap, easy to maintain, good for fuel and comes in all sizes- if I was an engineering director of a bus company I'd love to have something that suits all my single deck needs from tiny buses round estates to big long single deckers. The E200 fits that bill. I think we also need to look at the competitions- Optares have a really poor record reliability wise, they really haven't aged well with Stagecoach in comparison to similar aged E200s Volvo/Wright- heavy, rattly Wrightbus bodywork and almost a mountain to climb to get to the back seats Mercedes Citaro- lovely bus, I'd go as far as to say my absolute favourite BUT, as we've seen with Stagecoach and MB not the most reliable buses Personally, I don't have a problem with the E200, in fact I'm sad to see the 13-reg ones leave RM and the MMC version is even better. At the end of the day, the Enviro range does the job, as a passenger they're a pretty good product. In my mind, better looking than the Streetline, Versa, Eclipse, Solo, eVora, Chose to etc- the internal layout is on point must better than the Wrightbus range. I do wonder if people in Berlin and other Europan cities think "oh not another Citaro" I agree with you about the E200. I think they're ok, nothing spectacular but I'd prefer them to any Optare products. I also agree about the Citaro being a great bus but as you say they have encountered some reliability problems recently. |
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Post by snoggle on Oct 18, 2018 18:43:18 GMT
I do wonder if people in Berlin and other Europan cities think "oh not another Citaro" Probably not in Berlin given they have reasonable numbers of MAN, Solaris and Scania single decks too.  I suspect Parisians and other French bus fans might tire a little of Renault / Saviem / Irisbus / Iveco buses. They really are all prevalent in many French towns and cities. There is some variety with RATP and independents on contracted services in the Ile de France region but they're an exception. Culturally the UK preference on single deckers has been pretty different to continental practice where heavier chassis have long been the engineer's favourite. I suspect this is because they have a tougher life on busy routes as there are very few double deckers. Even where Darts or similar have been trialled on european networks they've never really taken off for some reason. |
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Post by ThinLizzy on Oct 18, 2018 18:55:27 GMT
I do wonder if people in Berlin and other Europan cities think "oh not another Citaro" Probably not in Berlin given they have reasonable numbers of MAN, Solaris and Scania single decks too. I suspect Parisians and other French bus fans might tire a little of Renault / Saviem / Irisbus / Iveco buses. They really are all prevalent in many French towns and cities. There is some variety with RATP and independents on contracted services in the Ile de France region but they're an exception. Culturally the UK preference on single deckers has been pretty different to continental practice where heavier chassis have long been the engineer's favourite. I suspect this is because they have a tougher life on busy routes as there are very few double deckers. Even where Darts or similar have been trialled on european networks they've never really taken off for some reason. I was in Alicante last month and there was nothing but Citaros except for two MAN open top deckers (I think they were MAN) This whole thing about "oh no, not more Enviros" is a bit "oh no, not another Costa/Tesco/Paddy Power in Town" |
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Post by snoggle on Oct 18, 2018 19:14:25 GMT
This whole thing about "oh no, not more Enviros" is a bit "oh no, not another Costa/Tesco/Paddy Power in Town" I think yet more generic coffee shops or bookies is far more "offensive" than more Enviro 200s.  |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 19, 2018 0:00:44 GMT
I guess they must have been the cheapest thing around at the time, or was it a buy 100 get 50 free deal? Only out in London's leafy suburbs are there nice single deck buses that are a pleasure to ride on. View AttachmentView Attachment The problem is thus- The Volvo B6BLE was an awful contraption, anybody who purchased them wished they hadn't. If Volvo had produced an equally good product things would have been different The Dennis Dart and the subsequent Dart SLF and then the E200 came at the right time. As others have said it's cheap, easy to maintain, good for fuel and comes in all sizes- if I was an engineering director of a bus company I'd love to have something that suits all my single deck needs from tiny buses round estates to big long single deckers. The E200 fits that bill. I think we also need to look at the competitions- Optares have a really poor record reliability wise, they really haven't aged well with Stagecoach in comparison to similar aged E200s Volvo/Wright- heavy, rattly Wrightbus bodywork and almost a mountain to climb to get to the back seats Mercedes Citaro- lovely bus, I'd go as far as to say my absolute favourite BUT, as we've seen with Stagecoach and MB not the most reliable buses Personally, I don't have a problem with the E200, in fact I'm sad to see the 13-reg ones leave RM and the MMC version is even better. At the end of the day, the Enviro range does the job, as a passenger they're a pretty good product. In my mind, better looking than the Streetline, Versa, Eclipse, Solo, eVora, Chose to etc- the internal layout is on point must better than the Wrightbus range. I do wonder if people in Berlin and other Europan cities think "oh not another Citaro" Granted, my Eclipse & Pulsar rides are limited to some Arriva The Shires journeys but haven't found any of those to be rattly and the Volvo version has sold in excellent numbers with major players like National Express, Arriva, various Go-Ahead subsidiaries, Transdev group & First. As a passenger, the Enviro 200 before WTA spec is extremely poor with little legroom and poor suspension compared to Optare products where at least taller passengers were actually considered - just a shame some Optare batches had issues (some batches have worked perfectly well). IMO, the old body one didn't look particularly great although some operators at least went for the rounded windows which helped it out a bit - the MMC looks far better and is what I consider the true successor to the faithful Pointer Dart. |
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 19, 2018 0:08:42 GMT
The problem is thus- The Volvo B6BLE was an awful contraption, anybody who purchased them wished they hadn't. If Volvo had produced an equally good product things would have been different The Dennis Dart and the subsequent Dart SLF and then the E200 came at the right time. As others have said it's cheap, easy to maintain, good for fuel and comes in all sizes- if I was an engineering director of a bus company I'd love to have something that suits all my single deck needs from tiny buses round estates to big long single deckers. The E200 fits that bill. I think we also need to look at the competitions- Optares have a really poor record reliability wise, they really haven't aged well with Stagecoach in comparison to similar aged E200s Volvo/Wright- heavy, rattly Wrightbus bodywork and almost a mountain to climb to get to the back seats Mercedes Citaro- lovely bus, I'd go as far as to say my absolute favourite BUT, as we've seen with Stagecoach and MB not the most reliable buses Personally, I don't have a problem with the E200, in fact I'm sad to see the 13-reg ones leave RM and the MMC version is even better. At the end of the day, the Enviro range does the job, as a passenger they're a pretty good product. In my mind, better looking than the Streetline, Versa, Eclipse, Solo, eVora, Chose to etc- the internal layout is on point must better than the Wrightbus range. I do wonder if people in Berlin and other Europan cities think "oh not another Citaro" Granted, my Eclipse & Pulsar rides are limited to some Arriva The Shires journeys but haven't found any of those to be rattly and the Volvo version has sold in excellent numbers with major players like National Express, Arriva, various Go-Ahead subsidiaries, Transdev group & First. As a passenger, the Enviro 200 before WTA spec is extremely poor with little legroom and poor suspension compared to Optare products where at least taller passengers were actually considered - just a shame some Optare batches had issues (some batches have worked perfectly well). IMO, the old body one didn't look particularly great although some operators at least went for the rounded windows which helped it out a bit - the MMC looks far better and is what I consider the true successor to the faithful Pointer Dart. As a bus user, I have always found Wright to be of superior build quality to ADL .... Though the e200mmc seems a match for the streetlite, but certainly prefer an SLS over an ENS when it turns up on the 410 |
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Post by planesandtrains on Oct 19, 2018 11:07:49 GMT
I do wonder if people in Berlin and other Europan cities think "oh not another Citaro" Probably not in Berlin given they have reasonable numbers of MAN, Solaris and Scania single decks too. I suspect Parisians and other French bus fans might tire a little of Renault / Saviem / Irisbus / Iveco buses. They really are all prevalent in many French towns and cities. There is some variety with RATP and independents on contracted services in the Ile de France region but they're an exception. Culturally the UK preference on single deckers has been pretty different to continental practice where heavier chassis have long been the engineer's favourite. I suspect this is because they have a tougher life on busy routes as there are very few double deckers. Even where Darts or similar have been trialled on european networks they've never really taken off for some reason. To be honest most of us were relieved to hear that Berlin ordered 900 Citaro C2s (mix of rigid and artics) rather than 900 citeas and scanias. |
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I suspect Parisians and other French bus fans might tire a little of Renault / Saviem / Irisbus / Iveco buses. They really are all prevalent in many French towns and cities. There is some variety with RATP and independents on contracted services in the Ile de France region but they're an exception.
