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Post by arrivaarriva on Nov 6, 2018 16:48:28 GMT
Post aimed at members with a broad knowledge of the entire network as opposed to a local area.
Scenario: London Mayor suddenly decides that TfL should provide a skeleton daytime bus service for Christmas Day 2019 Which routes should run? Whole route or part route?
My idea is limited to a few suggestions including 207 operating Shepherd's Bush to Uxbridge (no 427 or 607 and the 483 from Harrow terminating at Ealing Broadway. 260 operating East Acton to Willesden Garage only and the 226 operating between Cricklewood Broadway and Hangar Lane Station only if it operates at all. 18 operating from Baker Street Station to Wembley Triangle only 73 operating from Newington Green to Warren Street Station only 253 running same route as N253 38 operating from Victoria to Angel only 30 operating Baker Street Station to Hackney Central (my emphasis is on operating routes in a shortened form to avoid duplication)
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Post by busaholic on Nov 6, 2018 17:29:20 GMT
Post aimed at members with a broad knowledge of the entire network as opposed to a local area.Scenario: London Mayor suddenly decides that TfL should provide a skeleton daytime bus service for Christmas Day 2019 Which routes should run? Whole route or part route? My idea is limited to a few suggestions including 207 operating Shepherd's Bush to Uxbridge (no 427 or 607 and the 483 from Harrow terminating at Ealing Broadway. 260 operating East Acton to Willesden Garage only and the 226 operating between Cricklewood Broadway and Hangar Lane Station only if it operates at all. 18 operating from Baker Street Station to Wembley Triangle only 73 operating from Newington Green to Warren Street Station only 253 running same route as N253 38 operating from Victoria to Angel only 30 operating Baker Street Station to Hackney Central (my emphasis is on operating routes in a shortened form to avoid duplication) I'm not sure which criteria would be adopted in choosing routes/part routes. If hospital visiting, for instance, was a priority, like it is in some towns and cities which still work Christmas Day services, then my list would probably be very different from one of mainly 'trunk' routes which it might otherwise be, modelled, I admit, on services which ran in a previous era when it was considered a social necessity to operate 365 days of the year. Some tweaking would be necessary too, especially once Central London cuts in prospect are implemented e.g. if the 36 was in the frame, which I think would be essential, it would need to be extended to Lewisham as the 21 and 436 wouldn't be running, in my plan. I am assuming that each bus company would be expected to participate if asked, or instructed,, even though such as Sullivan's probably wouln't be needed. To stop it getting unwieldy, I'd suggest a limit to the number of routes involved, with the proviso that no one area is seen as being favoured, although the central area could be regarded as a 'special case' as some of the routes would be coming into it from each of the other areas. Headways should be fairly standardised, at 15 minutes I'd suggest, although possibly 12 on a few corridors and 20 on others targetted specifically at hospital visitors/staff which might not otherwise be expected to attract much custom. I produced such a list on another forum a year or two back, but times change and I can't absolutely remember what I posted anyway! I think I restricted my list to 12-14 routes, all piercing central London bar the 207.
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Post by ronnie on Nov 6, 2018 17:39:19 GMT
Post aimed at members with a broad knowledge of the entire network as opposed to a local area.Scenario: London Mayor suddenly decides that TfL should provide a skeleton daytime bus service for Christmas Day 2019 Which routes should run? Whole route or part route? My idea is limited to a few suggestions including 207 operating Shepherd's Bush to Uxbridge (no 427 or 607 and the 483 from Harrow terminating at Ealing Broadway. 260 operating East Acton to Willesden Garage only and the 226 operating between Cricklewood Broadway and Hangar Lane Station only if it operates at all. 18 operating from Baker Street Station to Wembley Triangle only 73 operating from Newington Green to Warren Street Station only 253 running same route as N253 38 operating from Victoria to Angel only 30 operating Baker Street Station to Hackney Central (my emphasis is on operating routes in a shortened form to avoid duplication) I'm not sure which criteria would be adopted in choosing routes/part routes. If hospital visiting, for instance, was a priority, like it is in some towns and cities which still work Christmas Day services, then my list would probably be very different from one of mainly 'trunk' routes which it might otherwise be, modelled, I admit, on services which ran in a previous era when it was considered a social necessity to operate 365 days of the year. Some tweaking would be necessary too, especially once Central London cuts in prospect are implemented e.g. if the 36 was in the frame, which I think would be essential, it would need to be extended to Lewisham as the 21 and 436 wouldn't be running, in my plan. I am assuming that each bus company would be expected to participate if asked, or instructed,, even though such as Sullivan's probably wouln't be needed. To stop it getting unwieldy, I'd suggest a limit to the number of routes involved, with the proviso that no one area is seen as being favoured, although the central area could be regarded as a 'special case' as some of the routes would be coming into it from each of the other areas. Headways should be fairly standardised, at 15 minutes I'd suggest, although possibly 12 on a few corridors and 20 on others targetted specifically at hospital visitors/staff which might not otherwise be expected to attract much custom. I produced such a list on another forum a year or two back, but times change and I can't absolutely remember what I posted anyway! I think I restricted my list to 12-14 routes, all piercing central London bar the 207. And given that congestion would be minimal, one can run the “day” equivalents of “night” routes. N9 and N15 as an example would be great. 25 would be a good one as well. I can try suggesting for other areas but must say not knowledgable about all areas....
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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Nov 6, 2018 17:54:27 GMT
What if you run all N prefix, 24h (through and weekend) + NYE-night routes on that day? Think it would plug most gaps…
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Post by snoggle on Nov 6, 2018 18:32:42 GMT
What if you run all N prefix, 24h (through and weekend) + NYE-night routes on that day? Think it would plug most gaps… I think some parts of London would still be devoid of buses even on fairly important corridors. Parts of Havering, Barking and Dagenham, Hounslow, Kingston, Hillingdon, Bromley and Croydon boroughs would not be well served. There's a legitimate debate to be had about precisely how many people in those areas would want to travel by bus on Xmas Day but for every person who could access a useful service there may be 2-3 people who would have nothing. Back to the old tedious debate about how much service you provide, how much could actually be resourced etc. I don't suggest we go there again given it always causes rows and a polarised debate amongst forum members. Even in more Inner London boroughs where bus demand is high I can see somewhere like Newham lacking a lot of service against the likely demand if TfL just ran the network you suggest. Even somewhere like Waltham Forest there are still a decent number of people milling around on Xmas Day and we have a number of local shops that are open and see trade. As I've remarked before I've seen people waiting for buses on Xmas Day. Anyway it's all a tad pointless given TfL's finances. Heck they can't even afford to run TfL Rail and Overground on Boxing Day this year despite having contract variations that would allow them to run some service (subject to whatever works NR are doing). I doubt we will see Boxing Day rail services in 2019 either.
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Post by bengady3 on Nov 6, 2018 20:40:20 GMT
All night buses operate on Christmas Day.
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Post by busman on Nov 6, 2018 20:46:39 GMT
Back in the late 80’s/90’s there used to be some crazy one-off routes running on boxing day. I’m sure I even remember 82’s to North Finchley turning up in Ealing one year. I think I’ve asked before but to no avail, but I would love to see records of what boxing day routes ran each year during that period. They were truly the stuff of fantasy but unfortunately I never got to ride any of them due to being either too young or too busy blagging my way into pubs with my fake ID 🤣
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 20:52:14 GMT
Back in the late 80’s/90’s there used to be some crazy one-off routes running on boxing day. I’m sure I even remember 82’s to North Finchley even turning up in Ealing one year. I think I’ve asked before but to no avail, but I would love to see records of what boxing day routes ran each year during that period. They were truly the stuff of fantasy but unfortunately I never got to ride any of them due to being either too young or too busy blagging my way into pubs with my fake ID 🤣 LOTS LBM ran a article last year about Boxing day specials. I can't seem to find the issue though...
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Post by busaholic on Nov 6, 2018 23:15:32 GMT
As far as financing such a move is concerned, the bus companies should be asked to sponsor them for one day only. I don't think there'd be any problems getting volunteers to work either, but it shouldn't be at premium rates. Enough people seem to hate Christmas/their relatives/life in general to provide the workforce.
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Post by sid on Nov 7, 2018 12:25:37 GMT
What if you run all N prefix, 24h (through and weekend) + NYE-night routes on that day? Think it would plug most gaps… I think a watered down version of the night bus network would be a good starting point with a few changes, I think the 2 and 13 could be merged into one route for example and there are endless other possibilities. The whole thing could be put out to tender and probably operated from a handful of garages with some oddities like Boxing Day years ago. Are there any other European capitals with virtually no public transport at all on Christmas Day? I know there is the Oxford Tube.
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Post by sid on Nov 7, 2018 12:34:34 GMT
Back in the late 80’s/90’s there used to be some crazy one-off routes running on boxing day. I’m sure I even remember 82’s to North Finchley turning up in Ealing one year. I think I’ve asked before but to no avail, but I would love to see records of what boxing day routes ran each year during that period. They were truly the stuff of fantasy but unfortunately I never got to ride any of them due to being either too young or too busy blagging my way into pubs with my fake ID 🤣 I might be mistaken but I have vague recollection of a one off 86B route and Capital Citybus doing the 19 for the day.
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Post by wirewiper on Nov 7, 2018 13:10:51 GMT
Perhaps previous years' Boxing Day Workings should be spun off into a separate thread, to reduce confusion?
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Post by snowman on Nov 7, 2018 13:17:13 GMT
What if you run all N prefix, 24h (through and weekend) + NYE-night routes on that day? Think it would plug most gaps… Are there any other European capitals with virtually no public transport at all on Christmas Day? I think Rome has a no public transport from lunchtime to 16:30 on Christmas day Some countries treat main Christmas meal as evening of 24th and have restricted service that evening, I know Vienna does (actually Vienna has a lower service right through from 24 Dec to Epiphany (12th night) 6 Jan) Ireland has no public transport on Christmas day, even Irish airlines close. Dublin bus finishes about 8-9pm on Christmas eve and stays closed until 26th (St Stephens day) when there is a limited service.
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 7, 2018 13:32:01 GMT
There's a pic of a Metrobus run 208 in Orpington at Christmas.
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Post by lonmark on Nov 7, 2018 14:15:52 GMT
There's a pic of a Metrobus run 208 in Orpington at Christmas. Not on Christmas day but Boxing Day.
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