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Post by Max B on Nov 21, 2018 14:40:19 GMT
I personally wasn't expecting the 468 to be affected. It seems the routes they've highlighted all terminate either at the Town Centre or West Croydon bus station. The 468 doesn't terminate at either places. I personally think it'll be best to keep the 468's South Croydon terminus to retain a north-south link, especially if all other routes that come from the Hogarth Crescent direction would now be altered to terminate in the bus station. It means the 468 would be the only route, from that direction, still providing access to central Croydon. Plus the 468 just underwent a slight frequency/PVR cut. I think TfL wouldn't be in a rush to make any further additional changes anytime soon to that route. The problem the 468 will have is no common stop with the 50 in the town centre so it'll probably be a lot busier whilst the 50 picks up hardly anyone? You could possibly say the same for the 198 and 250 along Wellesley Road.
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Post by SILENCED on Nov 21, 2018 14:59:52 GMT
The problem the 468 will have is no common stop with the 50 in the town centre so it'll probably be a lot busier whilst the 50 picks up hardly anyone? You could possibly say the same for the 198 and 250 along Wellesley Road. But at least they will share a common stop at West Croydon!
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Post by Max B on Nov 21, 2018 16:26:35 GMT
You could possibly say the same for the 198 and 250 along Wellesley Road. But at least they will share a common stop at West Croydon! Don’t they already? It’s just that if these changes go ahead, the 198 at the Whitgift Centre stop towards Thornton Heath will be packed with no alternative other than the 468 to the Talbot Road stop now that the 50 is gonna terminate at West Croydon, and with fewer passengers getting on the 250 from West Croydon.
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Post by sid on Nov 21, 2018 17:11:31 GMT
But at least they will share a common stop at West Croydon! Don’t they already? It’s just that if these changes go ahead, the 198 at the Whitgift Centre stop towards Thornton Heath will be packed with no alternative other than the 468 to the Talbot Road stop now that the 50 is gonna terminate at West Croydon, and with fewer passengers getting on the 250 from West Croydon. Yes there will still be a common stop for the 198 and 250 at West Croydon bus station but not for the 50 and 468 unless the intention is to double run the 468 through the bus station like the 75 currently does?
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Post by sid on Nov 21, 2018 17:15:22 GMT
I agree with the 197 terminating at Fairfield Halls where it does now seeing as where it used to stand doesn’t look like it’ll become a bus stand again. I think Fairfield Halls is an awful place to drop passengers, a bit like the Speakers Corner stop at Marble Arch exposed and remote from the main attractions and I'd be very concerned for the 154 and 403 if that is the only town centre pick up point. I think it would make sense to reroute the 403 as per the 412 route via the High Street, possibly the 154 as well then via Lower Coombe Street to the Old Town roundabout.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 21, 2018 17:29:48 GMT
I agree with the 197 terminating at Fairfield Halls where it does now seeing as where it used to stand doesn’t look like it’ll become a bus stand again. I think Fairfield Halls is an awful place to drop passengers, a bit like the Speakers Corner stop at Marble Arch exposed and remote from the main attractions and I'd be very concerned for the 154 and 403 if that is the only town centre pick up point. I think it would make sense to reroute the 403 as per the 412 route via the High Street, possibly the 154 as well then via Lower Coombe Street to the Old Town roundabout. Depends on who you are - Fairfield Halls is useful & handy for Croydon College students as the college is right by the stand - 75’s & 250’s can & do alight there with plenty students as well.
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Post by YY13VKP on Nov 21, 2018 18:12:37 GMT
Well this is better than I thought it would be when I first heard that TFL were reviewing the Croydon Bus network, I thought it would be cuts left right and centre. These are a good set of proposals, as most buses that run between Croydon Town Centre and West Croydon carry air anyway, and when the Westfield development finally starts in September next year, no buses will be stopping outside the Whitgift Centre anyway and nearly all routes would be carrying very few people towards West Croydon. I'm guessing that once the Westfield development is finished, more buses would start serving there again.
The only bad thing is that it would be better to have all Croydon routes terminating in one place rather than having so many scattered around the town centre in different places. As it is now, only the 50, 75, 109, 197, 250 and 264 do not terminate at West Croydon Bus Station, and especially when Westfield opens and Croydon is suddenly becoming more popular, more buses would need to serve Wellesley Road and West Croydon again, so I have a feeling that these changes might be in anticipation of the Westfield development beginning and once it ends the routes will be restored back to West Croydon. Having said that though, routes coming from the north such as the 109, 250 etc would be better suited to terminating at West Croydon Bus Station.
At least however there are no major cuts happening to any of the routes unlike in Central London. Still waiting to hear what will happen regarding the 404/434 extension proposals
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Post by busaholic on Nov 21, 2018 18:16:46 GMT
Next consultation Turnpike Lane/Wood Green? Swap terminals around so that buses from the south terminate at TP and from the north at WG. No, I'm not advocating it, I'm suggesting TfL could make much the same bogus arguments to advance the proposition. Not getting a boring Westfield might just save Haringey this nonsense.
A serious suggestion - as Tramlink was never allowed to do the sensible thing and lay rails along North End, reintroduce buses there. The volume of pedestrian traffic on North End is probably less than half of thirty years ago, and will no doubt lessen further IF Westfield is both built and actually opens. Routes like the 405 and 468, as well as the 60 and 109, would gain from such a move.
On the actual Consultation the 154 change seems to be the worst from the passenger point of view, but services from the south side in general suffer.
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Post by sid on Nov 21, 2018 18:30:30 GMT
I think Fairfield Halls is an awful place to drop passengers, a bit like the Speakers Corner stop at Marble Arch exposed and remote from the main attractions and I'd be very concerned for the 154 and 403 if that is the only town centre pick up point. I think it would make sense to reroute the 403 as per the 412 route via the High Street, possibly the 154 as well then via Lower Coombe Street to the Old Town roundabout. Depends on who you are - Fairfield Halls is useful & handy for Croydon College students as the college is right by the stand - 75’s & 250’s can & do alight there with plenty students as well. It's fine as an ordinary stop but I don't think anybody unfamiliar with Croydon will be impressed at being turfed off there and not great for drivers either with toilet facilities being a bit of a walk although presumably they'll be able to use Fairfield Halls when it reopens. There used to be a stop in George Street opposite where Waitrose is now pre Tramlink that was useful for the college, well on buses coming from East Croydon direction anyway.
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Post by Max B on Nov 21, 2018 18:30:41 GMT
Don’t they already? It’s just that if these changes go ahead, the 198 at the Whitgift Centre stop towards Thornton Heath will be packed with no alternative other than the 468 to the Talbot Road stop now that the 50 is gonna terminate at West Croydon, and with fewer passengers getting on the 250 from West Croydon. Yes there will still be a common stop for the 198 and 250 at West Croydon bus station but not for the 50 and 468 unless the intention is to double run the 468 through the bus station like the 75 currently does?It hasn’t been said but I don’t think TFL would’ve had the brains to come up with this move to support the 50 now that it’s being curtailed.
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Post by sid on Nov 21, 2018 18:56:27 GMT
Next consultation Turnpike Lane/Wood Green? Swap terminals around so that buses from the south terminate at TP and from the north at WG. No, I'm not advocating it, I'm suggesting TfL could make much the same bogus arguments to advance the proposition. Not getting a boring Westfield might just save Haringey this nonsense. A serious suggestion - as Tramlink was never allowed to do the sensible thing and lay rails along North End, reintroduce buses there. The volume of pedestrian traffic on North End is probably less than half of thirty years ago, and will no doubt lessen further IF Westfield is both built and actually opens. Routes like the 405 and 468, as well as the 60 and 109, would gain from such a move. On the actual Consultation the 154 change seems to be the worst from the passenger point of view, but services from the south side in general suffer. The decline in pedestrian traffic in North End is very noticeable but I don't think there's much chance of buses returning. If this Westfield development is going ahead, there still seems to be some doubts, those behind it are taking one hell of a risk in the current climate. I think the 154 should be rerouted from Old Town roundabout via Reeves Corner to West Croydon and the 50 left as it is.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 22, 2018 0:02:32 GMT
Next consultation Turnpike Lane/Wood Green? Swap terminals around so that buses from the south terminate at TP and from the north at WG. No, I'm not advocating it, I'm suggesting TfL could make much the same bogus arguments to advance the proposition. Not getting a boring Westfield might just save Haringey this nonsense. A serious suggestion - as Tramlink was never allowed to do the sensible thing and lay rails along North End, reintroduce buses there. The volume of pedestrian traffic on North End is probably less than half of thirty years ago, and will no doubt lessen further IF Westfield is both built and actually opens. Routes like the 405 and 468, as well as the 60 and 109, would gain from such a move. On the actual Consultation the 154 change seems to be the worst from the passenger point of view, but services from the south side in general suffer. Wow, I've found someone who agrees with me that North End should return to having buses serve it - welcome into our very lonely club
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PaulH
Conductor
Posts: 61
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Post by PaulH on Nov 22, 2018 0:59:52 GMT
Well this is better than I thought it would be when I first heard that TFL were reviewing the Croydon Bus network, I thought it would be cuts left right and centre. These are a good set of proposals, as most buses that run between Croydon Town Centre and West Croydon carry air anyway, and when the Westfield development finally starts in September next year, no buses will be stopping outside the Whitgift Centre anyway and nearly all routes would be carrying very few people towards West Croydon. I'm guessing that once the Westfield development is finished, more buses would start serving there again. The only bad thing is that it would be better to have all Croydon routes terminating in one place rather than having so many scattered around the town centre in different places. As it is now, only the 50, 75, 109, 197, 250 and 264 do not terminate at West Croydon Bus Station, and especially when Westfield opens and Croydon is suddenly becoming more popular, more buses would need to serve Wellesley Road and West Croydon again, so I have a feeling that these changes might be in anticipation of the Westfield development beginning and once it ends the routes will be restored back to West Croydon. Having said that though, routes coming from the north such as the 109, 250 etc would be better suited to terminating at West Croydon Bus Station. At least however there are no major cuts happening to any of the routes unlike in Central London. Still waiting to hear what will happen regarding the 404/434 extension proposals Reading through the 'Equalities Impact Assessment' document attached to the consultation, it says on page 7:
"A review of buses in north and south Croydon is being undertaken to ascertain how the buses proposed to be saved from Croydon town centre could be redeployed throughout the Borough. This will identify any capacity problems and opportunities arising from future growth".
So this appears NOT to be the review of the Croydon bus network after all but only a Wellesley Road bus reduction excercise. I presume the 404/434 extension proposals would be contained in the north and south Croydon consultation when they finish their review.
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Post by Steve80 on Nov 22, 2018 3:16:31 GMT
Well I thank TfL for finally bringing me back to this site because of their random and astonishing email about changes to the Croydon town centre. What is the need for such changes Must admit that I hardly use the buses anymore but I assume nothing has changed that much as when I did used them as frequently as I did last year or so. I already filled out the online survey and made my concerns regarding the routes 109, 154, 250 and the 264 at nights. I would also question the 50 and 197. Obviously these routes I use more than the others and although I have driven the 433 in the past, I can understand that as the route parallels with the 64. I look at the stops on park street and I find it incredible that they want to curtail 3 routes form that stop. Imagine getting to a stop full of shopping bags and now you are forced to cram on another bus that's already rammed packed just to two stops down the road. And what's good is a one hour hopping service when you trying to get home from work on the 264 and now you have to walk to get the N68 or wait upto 20 minutes (or walk over 10 minutes) to get a connecting 119 bus at night. And If I want to go to Waddon or Stafford road areas, I will no longer have the option of choosing if I want to use the 157 or the 154. What happens if the trams are disrupted from running in the Croydon area? Why is the 367 not on this list? Is it any wonder why most of us prefer to take the car or use online shopping if they going to make buses harder to use than before
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Post by sid on Nov 22, 2018 13:36:50 GMT
Well this is better than I thought it would be when I first heard that TFL were reviewing the Croydon Bus network, I thought it would be cuts left right and centre. These are a good set of proposals, as most buses that run between Croydon Town Centre and West Croydon carry air anyway, and when the Westfield development finally starts in September next year, no buses will be stopping outside the Whitgift Centre anyway and nearly all routes would be carrying very few people towards West Croydon. I'm guessing that once the Westfield development is finished, more buses would start serving there again. The only bad thing is that it would be better to have all Croydon routes terminating in one place rather than having so many scattered around the town centre in different places. As it is now, only the 50, 75, 109, 197, 250 and 264 do not terminate at West Croydon Bus Station, and especially when Westfield opens and Croydon is suddenly becoming more popular, more buses would need to serve Wellesley Road and West Croydon again, so I have a feeling that these changes might be in anticipation of the Westfield development beginning and once it ends the routes will be restored back to West Croydon. Having said that though, routes coming from the north such as the 109, 250 etc would be better suited to terminating at West Croydon Bus Station. At least however there are no major cuts happening to any of the routes unlike in Central London. Still waiting to hear what will happen regarding the 404/434 extension proposals Reading through the 'Equalities Impact Assessment' document attached to the consultation, it says on page 7:
"A review of buses in north and south Croydon is being undertaken to ascertain how the buses proposed to be saved from Croydon town centre could be redeployed throughout the Borough. This will identify any capacity problems and opportunities arising from future growth".
So this appears NOT to be the review of the Croydon bus network after all but only a Wellesley Road bus reduction excercise. I presume the 404/434 extension proposals would be contained in the north and south Croydon consultation when they finish their review.
That's what I thought, is there more to come I wonder? Anyway if what we have so far is a 'temporary arrangement' during the Westfield work which will last a few years a better option would be: The 403,405 and 412 (and possibly the 166 as well?) could be rerouted via George Street east and Dingwall Road to a new stand in Sydenham Road, there would be plenty of room if a few parking bays were removed. Buses could then commence the return journey at their current stop in Wellesley Road. The 154 and X26 could be rerouted to West Croydon via Reeves Corner although the X26 would no longer serve East Croydon. The 75 and 264 curtailed at West Croydon as proposed but the 50 and 250 left unchanged. The 433 and possibly the 367 could be rerouted from East Croydon via Dingwall Road to Sydenham Road. This removes ten routes from Wellesley Road northbound.
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