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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 10, 2018 11:08:46 GMT
I agree and ideally I think in service driver changeovers should be reduced as far as possible, obviously they can't be eliminated completely, it's always going to cause some delay as drivers adjust the seat, steering wheel, mirrors etc. A driver change outside NX I experienced recently was laboriously slow with the drivers stopping for a natter and generally acting like they had all the time in the world. What winds me up is waiting for a live changeover whilst another bus whizzes by!!!
In respect of mirrors, seat, wheel etc here's a potential solution. For a particular type of bus you could have electric adjustments of these items. The driver would adjust them once, get a code for that particular setup, and then whenever in the same type of bus, he could key the code and the adjustments to suit the driver would be made automatically. There's a thought for the bus manufacturers. Probably a pipe dream!
Sounds a good idea, but would cost a lot of money, it is already a feature on some cars which can have personal setup via different driver car keys.
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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Dec 17, 2018 4:31:03 GMT
I definitely think it's not a good idea to leave the bus unattended with people on. Yet I've been allowed on or left on ones like this So risky! I've had a changeover with 440 a few years back that the new driver never made it because his car refused to start up or something - as revealed in the phonecall our driver made - but PK managed to send someone else, so the wait was 20min+? But the original guy stuck around till the replacement showed up, and kept us all updated. I've also had a ridiculous at least 30min+ wait with 58 at Leyton Library - and the new driver, when he finally showed up, he comes out the corner, very casual pace, still on the phone, not like he has several angry people waiting To this day I think that was taking the mickey. As for buses behind, think one only showed up when we were primed to go again! Fastest changeover I've had was with BN, must've been something like 30seconds; literally open the main and cab door, say hello and jump-out, jump in, close the cab door, close the main exits - bam done. Sadly with the last few 133/333 changeovers I've ran into they've been rather dragging it, so I don't think I'll be getting a repeat of that model short changeover anytime soon Eugh, why can't 133 change at Streatham Station…? It's not even that far…
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Post by Pilot on Dec 17, 2018 15:08:41 GMT
Fastest changeover I've had was with BN, must've been something like 30seconds; literally open the main and cab door, say hello and jump-out, jump in, close the cab door, close the main exits - bam done. Sadly with the last few 133/333 changeovers I've ran into they've been rather dragging it, so I don't think I'll be getting a repeat of that model short changeover anytime soon Eugh, why can't 133 change at Streatham Station…? It's not even that far… I should have filmed changeover at Catford it literally took 10 minutes because of casual paperwork filling.
I think one of the problems with changeovers is that it's not exactly well explained by company on whether they should check the ramp on changeover, fill the paperwork and so on, so every driver does it different, some check their ramps, fill paperwork all the lot, some jump in and out and do it at the terminus.
If someone wants to get curtailed they'll just waste their time at changeover as much as possible, but sometimes they do it on purpose because the bus arrives 10-15 min late, the driver will never make that time up, but the controller probably just takes the gamble to see if he/she would and in most cases they won't. Controllers will blame drivers, but most drivers don't take abuse from controllers lol.
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Post by sid on Dec 17, 2018 15:33:42 GMT
Fastest changeover I've had was with BN, must've been something like 30seconds; literally open the main and cab door, say hello and jump-out, jump in, close the cab door, close the main exits - bam done. Sadly with the last few 133/333 changeovers I've ran into they've been rather dragging it, so I don't think I'll be getting a repeat of that model short changeover anytime soon Eugh, why can't 133 change at Streatham Station…? It's not even that far… I should have filmed changeover at Catford it literally took 10 minutes because of casual paperwork filling.
I think one of the problems with changeovers is that it's not exactly well explained by company on whether they should check the ramp on changeover, fill the paperwork and so on, so every driver does it different, some check their ramps, fill paperwork all the lot, some jump in and out and do it at the terminus.
If someone wants to get curtailed they'll just waste their time at changeover as much as possible, but sometimes they do it on purpose because the bus arrives 10-15 min late, the driver will never make that time up, but the controller probably just takes the gamble to see if he/she would and in most cases they won't. Controllers will blame drivers, but most drivers don't take abuse from controllers lol.
I think jump in and go is the normal etiquette and do a walk round vehicle check at the terminus? I've no doubt some drivers will take liberties but it's up to controllers and management to be wise to it. I assume controllers are former drivers and know who to keep an eye on?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 16:08:49 GMT
The worst scenario is on a route like the 18. On a 3-4min headway you could have up to three or four all on relief together; or one on relief and the next five overtaking. Live changeovers at Harlesden/Willesden junction killed the route's headway.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 19:03:56 GMT
I should have filmed changeover at Catford it literally took 10 minutes because of casual paperwork filling.
I think one of the problems with changeovers is that it's not exactly well explained by company on whether they should check the ramp on changeover, fill the paperwork and so on, so every driver does it different, some check their ramps, fill paperwork all the lot, some jump in and out and do it at the terminus.
If someone wants to get curtailed they'll just waste their time at changeover as much as possible, but sometimes they do it on purpose because the bus arrives 10-15 min late, the driver will never make that time up, but the controller probably just takes the gamble to see if he/she would and in most cases they won't. Controllers will blame drivers, but most drivers don't take abuse from controllers lol.
I think jump in and go is the normal etiquette and do a walk round vehicle check at the terminus? I've no doubt some drivers will take liberties but it's up to controllers and management to be wise to it. I assume controllers are former drivers and know who to keep an eye on? When I was at Q, there was a roadside controller outside the garage, and one down at Nag's Head, so there was no mucking around on live changeovers, and no arriving early and leaving the bus waiting for the relief driver. Now at MG on the 180, we do live changeovers at East Greenwich, and it's not a particularly slick operation. Drivers regularly arrive early and buses are left waiting for relief drivers, some drivers often take their time changing over, stopping for a lengthy chat before actually taking over the bus, and often drivers arriving late to take over, as the traffic around the garage is predictably very volatile around the tunnel, and we often get stuck in traffic in the ferry bus on the way to take over. I think the changeovers at East Greenwich would be a lot smoother if there was a roadside controller there, as it's not only the 180 changing over there, but also some 286s, and 386s round the corner, so I'd say it something that companies should consider if there is more than one route changing over at a certain location. Whenever I take over the bus, I always try to be at the changeover point 3 minutes before my time in case the bus arrives early (not all drivers do this as it is worth noting that they are not paid for this time), then I just jump in, log my self in, adjust the seat, steering column and mirrors where necessary, then depart. I do a full inspection of the bus at the terminus before I sign the VCR card. AFAIK, that's what Go Ahead want you to do.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Dec 17, 2018 23:04:51 GMT
Why should drivers be there early off of their own backs unpaid.
If it was a professional operation the bus companies would allow time for drivers to arrive a few minutes early, also change over time would be built into schedules.
But no it's a race to the bottom when I was there I did it by the book, takes 5 mins to fill in paperwork adjust mirrors check ramp etc it takes 5 mins cos i tell you what you have an accident because you rushed you won't get no thank you from the managers in your disciplinary.
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Post by busaholic on Dec 18, 2018 0:25:39 GMT
I was waiting at Victoria Coach Station for an 11 to Liverpool Street - one comes along, driver gets off, about 10 minutes later his replacement shows, then he's told to 'short' to Aldwych. I was still waiting by the stop, see the blinds go whizzing round, back and forth, about four times. No sign of Aldwych on the blind!! (pre-LT days.) Eventually the driver and controller settle on Trafalgar Square and off it goes (minus me.)
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 18, 2018 2:17:34 GMT
Why should drivers be there early off of their own backs unpaid. If it was a professional operation the bus companies would allow time for drivers to arrive a few minutes early, also change over time would be built into schedules. But no it's a race to the bottom when I was there I did it by the book, takes 5 mins to fill in paperwork adjust mirrors check ramp etc it takes 5 mins cos i tell you what you have an accident because you rushed you won't get no thank you from the managers in your disciplinary. But in this case, there is more than enough time to taken over the bus from sign on. No race to the bottom BS here. Driver would have had more than enough time to read notices, fill in log card etc and still be ok to takeover the bus. The driver did NOT turn up, it was possibly a staff cut. As the poster said passengers were transferred on the bus behind. Generally most sign on takeovers from garage has too much time to take over the bus. The problem ones are some with ferry vehicle runs that get stuck in traffic to cause late take overs or just tight. On a live changeover there is no way it should take 5 mins to adjust mirrors and fill in paperwork, unless you spitefully wanted to waste time. It isn't a matter of taking over an aeroplane.
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Post by Pilot on Dec 18, 2018 2:29:25 GMT
Why should drivers be there early off of their own backs unpaid. If it was a professional operation the bus companies would allow time for drivers to arrive a few minutes early, also change over time would be built into schedules. But no it's a race to the bottom when I was there I did it by the book, takes 5 mins to fill in paperwork adjust mirrors check ramp etc it takes 5 mins cos i tell you what you have an accident because you rushed you won't get no thank you from the managers in your disciplinary. But in this case, there is more than enough time to taken over the bus from sign on. No race to the bottom BS here. Driver would have had more than enough time to read notices, fill in log card etc and still be ok to takeover the bus. The driver did NOT turn up, it was possibly a staff cut. As the poster said passengers were transferred on the bus behind. Generally most sign on takeovers from garage has too much time to take over the bus. The problem ones are some with ferry vehicle runs that get stuck in traffic to cause late take overs or just tight. On a live changeover there is no way it should take 5 mins to adjust mirrors and fill in paperwork, unless you spitefully wanted to waste time. It isn't a matter of taking over an aeroplane.
5 minutes with ramp is do-able, otherwise it's at least 3 minutes for me in most cases, jumping out to hand the bus to another driver is easy part.
No joke this happened to me, I stand waiting for bus...bus arrives on time (good stuff), driver allows passengers out I come to the door and shuts door in front of me lol, then fills paperwork which can EASILY be filled in once the driver left the bus (apart from defect card which takes 1 second). Literally spent 3 minutes waiting for IDK what...
Then again, I wouldn't like a controller standing there sort of in visible distance keeping an eye on you because that could lead you to rush things. No joke, most of my mess ups (silly mistakes) come after I hear my controller on radio or long center-com message.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2018 8:09:03 GMT
Why should drivers be there early off of their own backs unpaid. If it was a professional operation the bus companies would allow time for drivers to arrive a few minutes early, also change over time would be built into schedules. But no it's a race to the bottom when I was there I did it by the book, takes 5 mins to fill in paperwork adjust mirrors check ramp etc it takes 5 mins cos i tell you what you have an accident because you rushed you won't get no thank you from the managers in your disciplinary. I agree, they should pay you to be there 3 minutes early. Anyway, I can't be asked to sit in the restroom for normally around an hour and 15 minutes, so I see no reason not to get down there and takeover early, as you get that time back as stand time at the other end anyway. At Go Ahead, you don't check your ramp on the changeover, you do a full inspection of the bus at the terminus.
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Post by Madstuntman on Dec 18, 2018 16:58:00 GMT
Why should drivers be there early off of their own backs unpaid. If it was a professional operation the bus companies would allow time for drivers to arrive a few minutes early, also change over time would be built into schedules. But no it's a race to the bottom when I was there I did it by the book, takes 5 mins to fill in paperwork adjust mirrors check ramp etc it takes 5 mins cos i tell you what you have an accident because you rushed you won't get no thank you from the managers in your disciplinary. I don’t know if they still do as I left 5 years ago but when I was at DT we had 2 minutes paid “walking time” at the start and end of a break so you could be there waiting for your bus rather than doing it “in your own time”
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Post by ibus246 on Dec 18, 2018 19:45:16 GMT
Why should drivers be there early off of their own backs unpaid. If it was a professional operation the bus companies would allow time for drivers to arrive a few minutes early, also change over time would be built into schedules. But no it's a race to the bottom when I was there I did it by the book, takes 5 mins to fill in paperwork adjust mirrors check ramp etc it takes 5 mins cos i tell you what you have an accident because you rushed you won't get no thank you from the managers in your disciplinary. I don’t know if they still do as I left 5 years ago but when I was at DT we had 2 minutes paid “walking time” at the start and end of a break so you could be there waiting for your bus rather than doing it “in your own time” Yes in Metrobus land the walking time is built into the duty
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2018 19:53:42 GMT
I don’t know if they still do as I left 5 years ago but when I was at DT we had 2 minutes paid “walking time” at the start and end of a break so you could be there waiting for your bus rather than doing it “in your own time” Yes in Metrobus land the walking time is built into the duty Where I am at the moment at MG, your meal break starts when you get off the bus, and ends when you're due back on the bus.
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Post by Pilot on Dec 18, 2018 20:09:36 GMT
Passengers don't wanna care for all the meal deal times, it's ridiculous how different companies have different policies, should be a TFL thing so it's all the same. But it's not gonna happen with tens of different contracts either since old contract drivers are more privileged.
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