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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 7:55:20 GMT
Don't see anything wrong with getting a turn in Woolwich? Just like any other curtailment. The wrong part is when the first 4 stops on a route (386 in this case) are left without a bus for the best part of an hour despite buses appearing and disappearing on LVF. I doubt it would be an hour. I would be very surprised if any controller turned 3 buses consecutively! Missing out the first 4 stops is used as a normal curtailment if you're running late. Controller calls up and says 'Can you turn at Woolwich Arsenal Station' same as any other curtailment.
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Post by SILENCED on Mar 21, 2019 9:37:39 GMT
The wrong part is when the first 4 stops on a route (386 in this case) are left without a bus for the best part of an hour despite buses appearing and disappearing on LVF. I doubt it would be an hour. I would be very surprised if any controller turned 3 buses consecutively! Missing out the first 4 stops is used as a normal curtailment if you're running late. Controller calls up and says 'Can you turn at Woolwich Arsenal Station' same as any other curtailment. I think you will find it is done more often than you think ... maybe not all at the same place. Once waited over 90 minutes for a 75 as they were using Catford to counteract delays on-route ... wont say if this was under Go-Ahead or Stagecoach ... think one was only sent through to Lewisham after I phoned TfL to complain ... obviously before hopper and tracing apps
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Post by cl54 on Mar 21, 2019 15:30:00 GMT
The wrong part is when the first 4 stops on a route (386 in this case) are left without a bus for the best part of an hour despite buses appearing and disappearing on LVF. I doubt it would be an hour. I would be very surprised if any controller turned 3 buses consecutively! Missing out the first 4 stops is used as a normal curtailment if you're running late. Controller calls up and says 'Can you turn at Woolwich Arsenal Station' same as any other curtailment. You may doubt it but it happened last week. Lots of us waiting at the stop. Slightly less the next night and I showed the LVF to a Go Ahead driver waiting for his next bus. Bus due in 3 minutes in Calderwood Street kept on getting later until it disappeared. Next bus got later and later until it merged with the third bus. This arrived 40 minutes after I got to the stop. I have suggested that the lightly used section from Greenwich to Blackheath Village is cut to remove the traffic delays across Blackheath. The route ran much better before the extension.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 15:51:01 GMT
I doubt it would be an hour. I would be very surprised if any controller turned 3 buses consecutively! Missing out the first 4 stops is used as a normal curtailment if you're running late. Controller calls up and says 'Can you turn at Woolwich Arsenal Station' same as any other curtailment. You may doubt it but it happened last week. Lots of us waiting at the stop. Slightly less the next night and I showed the LVF to a Go Ahead driver waiting for his next bus. Bus due in 3 minutes in Calderwood Street kept on getting later until it disappeared. Next bus got later and later until it merged with the third bus. This arrived 40 minutes after I got to the stop. I have suggested that the lightly used section from Greenwich to Blackheath Village is cut to remove the traffic delays across Blackheath. The route ran much better before the extension. The peak time running times and school times leave a lot to be desired on that route. The other day just running late constantly and got given a "Show QE and run light to Woolwich". The route could do with a curtailment point somewhere between QE and Woolwich as QE is something like a 50 minute turn, which is a lot if you're only running about 10 late, hence a lot of the time you end up with a Woolwich Arsenal Stn turn or get run light out of Woolwich to Herbert Road, Ha Ha Road, or if heavily delayed light to the Royal Standard, or even Vanbrugh Hill (had that before). As it's a low frequency route, it's either get out in a departure slot or get run light somewhere, so the controllers would often opt to run you light rather than let you run late out of a timeslot as that results in lost QSI bonuses.
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Post by cl54 on Mar 21, 2019 18:55:16 GMT
You may doubt it but it happened last week. Lots of us waiting at the stop. Slightly less the next night and I showed the LVF to a Go Ahead driver waiting for his next bus. Bus due in 3 minutes in Calderwood Street kept on getting later until it disappeared. Next bus got later and later until it merged with the third bus. This arrived 40 minutes after I got to the stop. I have suggested that the lightly used section from Greenwich to Blackheath Village is cut to remove the traffic delays across Blackheath. The route ran much better before the extension. The peak time running times and school times leave a lot to be desired on that route. The other day just running late constantly and got given a "Show QE and run light to Woolwich". The route could do with a curtailment point somewhere between QE and Woolwich as QE is something like a 50 minute turn, which is a lot if you're only running about 10 late, hence a lot of the time you end up with a Woolwich Arsenal Stn turn or get run light out of Woolwich to Herbert Road, Ha Ha Road, or if heavily delayed light to the Royal Standard, or even Vanbrugh Hill (had that before). As it's a low frequency route, it's either get out in a departure slot or get run light somewhere, so the controllers would often opt to run you light rather than let you run late out of a timeslot as that results in lost QSI bonuses. Frequently see two buses in Herbert Road heading for Woolwich. Why don't controllers move passengers from the later bus to the next bus and run light from Ha Ha Road to Woolwich?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 19:26:23 GMT
The peak time running times and school times leave a lot to be desired on that route. The other day just running late constantly and got given a "Show QE and run light to Woolwich". The route could do with a curtailment point somewhere between QE and Woolwich as QE is something like a 50 minute turn, which is a lot if you're only running about 10 late, hence a lot of the time you end up with a Woolwich Arsenal Stn turn or get run light out of Woolwich to Herbert Road, Ha Ha Road, or if heavily delayed light to the Royal Standard, or even Vanbrugh Hill (had that before). As it's a low frequency route, it's either get out in a departure slot or get run light somewhere, so the controllers would often opt to run you light rather than let you run late out of a timeslot as that results in lost QSI bonuses. Frequently see two buses in Herbert Road heading for Woolwich. Why don't controllers move passengers from the later bus to the next bus and run light from Ha Ha Road to Woolwich? Presumably because it's less mileage running light the other way. If running light to Woolwich, you need to terminate at QE Hospital as that's the nearest curtailment point, whereas going the other way you can start from either Herbert Road or Ha Ha Road, or if not too late just turn at Woolwich Arsenal Stn, all less mileage.
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Post by cl54 on Mar 21, 2019 19:44:54 GMT
Frequently see two buses in Herbert Road heading for Woolwich. Why don't controllers move passengers from the later bus to the next bus and run light from Ha Ha Road to Woolwich? Presumably because it's less mileage running light the other way. If running light to Woolwich, you need to terminate at QE Hospital as that's the nearest curtailment point, whereas going the other way you can start from either Herbert Road or Ha Ha Road, or if not too late just turn at Woolwich Arsenal Stn, all less mileage. <iframe width="24.039999999999964" height="5.480000000000018" style="position: absolute; width: 24.039999999999964px; height: 5.480000000000018px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_49592297" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.039999999999964" height="5.480000000000018" style="position: absolute; width: 24.04px; height: 5.48px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1141px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_27860048" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.039999999999964" height="5.480000000000018" style="position: absolute; width: 24.04px; height: 5.48px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 212px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_64290042" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.039999999999964" height="5.480000000000018" style="position: absolute; width: 24.04px; height: 5.48px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1141px; top: 212px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_11983489" scrolling="no"></iframe> I thought buses were passenger carrying vehicles. It seems Go Ahead couldn't care less about leaving people at busy stops in Woolwich for long periods.
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Post by beaver14uk on Mar 21, 2019 21:28:37 GMT
When I drove for Go Ahead they were very good at doing just that. Knowing controllers working for them again very good at doing just as you describe quote author=" cl54" source="/post/488209/thread" timestamp="1553197494"] Presumably because it's less mileage running light the other way. If running light to Woolwich, you need to terminate at QE Hospital as that's the nearest curtailment point, whereas going the other way you can start from either Herbert Road or Ha Ha Road, or if not too late just turn at Woolwich Arsenal Stn, all less mileage. <iframe width="24.039999999999964" height="5.480000000000018" style="position: absolute; width: 24.039999999999964px; height: 5.480000000000018px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_49592297" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.039999999999964" height="5.480000000000018" style="position: absolute; width: 24.04px; height: 5.48px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1141px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_27860048" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.039999999999964" height="5.480000000000018" style="position: absolute; width: 24.04px; height: 5.48px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 212px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_64290042" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.039999999999964" height="5.480000000000018" style="position: absolute; width: 24.04px; height: 5.48px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1141px; top: 212px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_11983489" scrolling="no"></iframe> I thought buses were passenger carrying vehicles. It seems Go Ahead couldn't care less about leaving people at busy stops in Woolwich for long periods.[/quote]
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Post by busman on Mar 22, 2019 10:24:05 GMT
This one came to me while perusing the 'MOST VAGUE DESTINATIONS' thread. It probably does require a minimum age to participate in view of changing practices over the years leading to the sparse information now judged sufficient for bus blinds. Growing up a short bus ride from Woolwich, these were the different termini in daily use there, all within a quarter mile or so of each other. All appeared as qualifiers on bus blinds:- Parsons Hill, Free Ferry, Earl of Chatham, General Gordon Place. Earl of Chatham also appeared as Thomas Street at one time and Hare Street replaced Parsons Hill in the early 1970s. Queen Elizabeth Hospital didn't exist then. Beresford Square also appeared in public timetables, and may have appeared on tram blinds, but I don't recollect it on bus blinds. Anyone got similar recollections or information? Romford might be a fertile area, for instance. I recall in the late 80’s/early 90’s the Metrobuses on the 92 had a brilliant blind - Neasden Brent Park Tesco via Great Central Way. Yes, that was all on one blind with the via bit in small font underneath the Neasden Tesco bit. I hate the vague blinds we get these days. “Woolwich”, “Harrow” and “Hammersmith” are not really that helpful.
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Post by wirewiper on Mar 22, 2019 12:13:55 GMT
This one came to me while perusing the 'MOST VAGUE DESTINATIONS' thread. It probably does require a minimum age to participate in view of changing practices over the years leading to the sparse information now judged sufficient for bus blinds. Growing up a short bus ride from Woolwich, these were the different termini in daily use there, all within a quarter mile or so of each other. All appeared as qualifiers on bus blinds:- Parsons Hill, Free Ferry, Earl of Chatham, General Gordon Place. Earl of Chatham also appeared as Thomas Street at one time and Hare Street replaced Parsons Hill in the early 1970s. Queen Elizabeth Hospital didn't exist then. Beresford Square also appeared in public timetables, and may have appeared on tram blinds, but I don't recollect it on bus blinds. Anyone got similar recollections or information? Romford might be a fertile area, for instance. I recall in the late 80’s/early 90’s the Metrobuses on the 92 had a brilliant blind - Neasden Brent Park Tesco via Great Central Way. Yes, that was all on one blind with the via bit in small font underneath the Neasden Tesco bit. I hate the vague blinds we get these days. “Woolwich”, “Harrow” and “Hammersmith” are not really that helpful. Brilliant maybe - but incredibly cramped and squashed on a Metrobus ultimate display, often not even aligned correctly, and by the time you'd made it all out and stuck your hand out, the bus would be sailing past the stop! Also displaying "Neasden" could mislead some people to think that the bus was going to Neasden town centre and not terminating nearly a mile short of there. Many routes going to Woolwich, Harrow and Hammersmith are terminating there, most passengers know where the buses terminate in these places and all they need is confirmation that the bus is actually going that far.
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Post by sid on Mar 22, 2019 12:22:44 GMT
I recall in the late 80’s/early 90’s the Metrobuses on the 92 had a brilliant blind - Neasden Brent Park Tesco via Great Central Way. Yes, that was all on one blind with the via bit in small font underneath the Neasden Tesco bit. I hate the vague blinds we get these days. “Woolwich”, “Harrow” and “Hammersmith” are not really that helpful. Brilliant maybe - but incredibly cramped and squashed on a Metrobus ultimate display, often not even aligned correctly, and by the time you'd made it all out and stuck your hand out, the bus would be sailing past the stop! Also displaying "Neasden" could mislead some people to think that the bus was going to Neasden town centre and not terminating nearly a mile short of there. Many routes going to Woolwich, Harrow and Hammersmith are terminating there, most passengers know where the buses terminate in these places and all they need is confirmation that the bus is actually going that far. I don't recall such blind displays being incredibly cramped and many people will be reading them whilst the bus is stationary at a bus stop. Croydon Town Centre is another ridiculous one, where in the town centre??
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Post by vjaska on Mar 22, 2019 13:09:44 GMT
I recall in the late 80’s/early 90’s the Metrobuses on the 92 had a brilliant blind - Neasden Brent Park Tesco via Great Central Way. Yes, that was all on one blind with the via bit in small font underneath the Neasden Tesco bit. I hate the vague blinds we get these days. “Woolwich”, “Harrow” and “Hammersmith” are not really that helpful. Brilliant maybe - but incredibly cramped and squashed on a Metrobus ultimate display, often not even aligned correctly, and by the time you'd made it all out and stuck your hand out, the bus would be sailing past the stop! Also displaying "Neasden" could mislead some people to think that the bus was going to Neasden town centre and not terminating nearly a mile short of there. Many routes going to Woolwich, Harrow and Hammersmith are terminating there, most passengers know where the buses terminate in these places and all they need is confirmation that the bus is actually going that far. You assume most passengers know but I don't believe there is any evidence to support this. I know people who have used buses, particularly to Croydon, who have no clue where in the town centre buses terminate - even my mum is still not sure whether he she needs the 109 or 250 to access the bottom of the high street in Croydon and she has done it many times.
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Post by busman on Mar 22, 2019 13:45:36 GMT
I recall in the late 80’s/early 90’s the Metrobuses on the 92 had a brilliant blind - Neasden Brent Park Tesco via Great Central Way. Yes, that was all on one blind with the via bit in small font underneath the Neasden Tesco bit. I hate the vague blinds we get these days. “Woolwich”, “Harrow” and “Hammersmith” are not really that helpful. Brilliant maybe - but incredibly cramped and squashed on a Metrobus ultimate display, often not even aligned correctly, and by the time you'd made it all out and stuck your hand out, the bus would be sailing past the stop! Also displaying "Neasden" could mislead some people to think that the bus was going to Neasden town centre and not terminating nearly a mile short of there. Many routes going to Woolwich, Harrow and Hammersmith are terminating there, most passengers know where the buses terminate in these places and all they need is confirmation that the bus is actually going that far. No, the display was very readable and at the time it was the final terminus for the 92. The Tesco and via bit helped passengers know where in Neasden the bus went. It was really helpful actually. Over time the blind evolved to Neasden Brent Park Tesco with the extension to St Raphaels Drury Way (blinded as Neasden Tesco & Drury Way!). If you think that most passengers know where exactly in each town buses terminate, I politely suggest you should start socialising with more people who are not in the industry or enthusiasts! For occasional and infrequent users I think qualifiers are very helpful in letting passengers know where buses terminate, especially in the absence of via point blinds (I think the via points are what I will miss most about the soon to be extinct Tridents). I love the new Woolwich Market blind on the 51. The number of times I’ve been kicked off a “Woolwich” bus at that stop is unreal.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2019 18:42:36 GMT
"Grahame Park, Quakers Course" on the 186 is a very precise destination blind. It's a shame that the 303 isn't consistent with this, and simply displays "Grahame Park"...
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Post by rif153 on Mar 31, 2019 11:46:04 GMT
I nominate Ilford High Road, Hainault Street on the W19
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