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Post by route53 on Jun 23, 2019 23:39:30 GMT
If you could and if it were brought back How would you operate the 53X or X53 today? For me it would run from Plumstead Station, then A206 to Woolwich Arsenal Stn, Charlton Village, Blackheath Royal Standard, Greenwich Park, New Cross Gate, non stop to County Hall then all stops to Trafalgar Square, and will not call at Plumstead Common, Blackheath Hill/West Greenwich, Deptford, OKR, Bricklayers Arms & E&C No bus lane for it as it could be held up at bus stops, run in peaks, not sure it’d be justifiable for it to run off peak, as great it would be for SE London to have an express bus. I wasn’t sure about starting it at Thamesmead, the powers that be may cite CrossRail at Abbey Wood. Personally I think it should call at Deptford Bridge and Elephant & Castle because of the connections they have. The former has the DLR to places such as Canary Wharf, Bank and Stratford while the latter has a variety of bus links to different places as well as the Tube lines. I’d imagine they would be more beneficial than calling at Charlton Village for example. I do see your point, however Those same links that Deptford Bridge has via the DLR, can be made at Woolwich Arsenal, the DLR there goes to Stratford and Bank and soon CrossRail will whisk Plumstead/Woolwich residents to Canary Wharf, and already they have the 472 to North Greenwich for the link to CW, as for Blackheath commuters,they would also make their way to North Greenwich for links to the Docklands and Stratford plus the 108 provides a link from there to Stratford if the Jubilee line is out of action, also worth noting that Deptford is where the 453 starts, and that goes much further into the West End, I think it’s not necessary for a 53X to stop at Deptford. As for E&C the regular 53/453 can probably bear the brunt of those heading to E&C, Charlton Village would be a needed stop for those who require the West End and also I doubt that any 53X would get away with not calling at Charlton Village.
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Post by rhys on Jun 24, 2019 0:02:52 GMT
About three years ago I lived in Herne Hill, and I used to see AM Peak X68’s passing through the A215 road, never in the PM Oeaks however, which is strange since the A215 never actually seemed that busy even in the peaks, Herne Hill was a bit of a pinch. Should the X68 stop at Brixton? It’s a major transport interchange for those commuting to and from the southern end of the route, or is it not worth it? The urge to stop at Brixton should be resisted imo, on principle, the principle being to retain operational flexibility at all costs. Does the route ever run via Railton Road and if not, why not? (I mean if running via Herne Hill in the first place.) It never runs on Railton Road. When it runs through Herne Hill, it usually follows the 68. There have been incidents in the past where there’s a diversion away from Tulse Hill, which sees the route diverting down Morval Road/Dalberg Road/Dulwich Road and Norwood Road, however.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 24, 2019 1:07:52 GMT
About three years ago I lived in Herne Hill, and I used to see AM Peak X68’s passing through the A215 road, never in the PM Oeaks however, which is strange since the A215 never actually seemed that busy even in the peaks, Herne Hill was a bit of a pinch. Should the X68 stop at Brixton? It’s a major transport interchange for those commuting to and from the southern end of the route, or is it not worth it? The urge to stop at Brixton should be resisted imo, on principle, the principle being to retain operational flexibility at all costs. Does the route ever run via Railton Road and if not, why not? (I mean if running via Herne Hill in the first place.) Nope, not down Railton Road, probably wouldn't be wise either as running via Railton Road & then Atlantic Road brings with it trying to negotiate parked vehicles even though Railton Road did have a regular double deck service when it was the old 2 though that was up to the early 90's before renumbered 322 and restructured. It's much easier to run via Morval Road/Brixton Water Lane & Dulwich Road if Tulse Hill was closed.
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Post by M1104 on Jun 24, 2019 7:49:36 GMT
The urge to stop at Brixton should be resisted imo, on principle, the principle being to retain operational flexibility at all costs. Does the route ever run via Railton Road and if not, why not? (I mean if running via Herne Hill in the first place.) Nope, not down Railton Road, probably wouldn't be wise either as running via Railton Road & then Atlantic Road brings with it trying to negotiate parked vehicles even though Railton Road did have a regular double deck service when it was the old 2 though that was up to the early 90's before renumbered 322 and restructured. It's much easier to run via Morval Road/Brixton Water Lane & Dulwich Road if Tulse Hill was closed. Also to add those WHVs appear harder to negotiate in tight spots with their longer rear overhang.
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Post by route53 on Jun 24, 2019 9:13:45 GMT
I see now that it wouldn’t be reasonable stopping the X68 at Brixton, plus there are local bus routes from the Croydon and Norwood areas which take commuters to Brixton.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 12:11:05 GMT
I see now that it wouldn’t be reasonable stopping the X68 at Brixton, plus there are local bus routes from the Croydon and Norwood areas which take commuters to Brixton. Stopping the X68 at Brixton would create all sorts of problems, I think somebody just saw it running non stop through Brixton and had a 'good idea'
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 24, 2019 13:44:36 GMT
When you think now the plans for the 53 from the late 90s have now been realised really expect the numbers are round the other way. The 53 is ultimately PD to Elephant now but continues a couple more stops due to lack of stand space and the 453 is the proposed 53 from Deptford to Oxo with an extension to Marylebone.
It's funny how the 53 has drifted from c london and the higher route number has taken on the core cental london role.
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Post by rif153 on Jun 24, 2019 15:22:23 GMT
When you think now the plans for the 53 from the late 90s have now been realised really expect the numbers are round the other way. The 53 is ultimately PD to Elephant now but continues a couple more stops due to lack of stand space and the 453 is the proposed 53 from Deptford to Oxo with an extension to Marylebone. It's funny how the 53 has drifted from c london and the higher route number has taken on the core cental london role. I always find it odd that the 53/453 defies the the splitting a Central London route numbering used on the 36/436 and 63/363. Its strange how the higher numbered route is the Central London one in this case but elswhere this is the inverse. I suppose that's because the 53 was cutback from Oxford Circus to Horse Guards with the 453 as mitigation whereas the 436 and 363 are manintaing links caused by shortening the 36 and 63 at the other end
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Post by rif153 on Jun 24, 2019 15:24:19 GMT
I see now that it wouldn’t be reasonable stopping the X68 at Brixton, plus there are local bus routes from the Croydon and Norwood areas which take commuters to Brixton. Stopping the X68 at Brixton would create all sorts of problems, I think somebody just saw it running non stop through Brixton and had a 'good idea' I think stopping the X68 at Brixton wouldn't be a good idea. Croydon Lib Dems wanted the X68 to stop at Brixton so that the residents of Crystal Palace and Norwood could access the Victoria Line but completely ignore the fact those areas already have direct bus links to Brixton: www.croydonlibdems.org/x68. The X68 needs to maintain its non stop section
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 24, 2019 15:27:15 GMT
When you think now the plans for the 53 from the late 90s have now been realised really expect the numbers are round the other way. The 53 is ultimately PD to Elephant now but continues a couple more stops due to lack of stand space and the 453 is the proposed 53 from Deptford to Oxo with an extension to Marylebone. It's funny how the 53 has drifted from c london and the higher route number has taken on the core cental london role. I always find it odd that the 53/453 defies the the splitting a Central London route numbering used on the 36/436 and 63/363. Its strange how the higher numbered route is the Central London one in this case but elswhere this is the inverse. I suppose that's because the 53 was cutback from Oxford Circus to Horse Guards with the 453 as mitigation whereas the 436 and 363 are manintaing links caused by shortening the 36 and 63 at the other end There may have been more outrage had Plumstead, Woolwich and Blackheath lost their long standing route number.
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Post by route53 on Jun 24, 2019 16:23:23 GMT
I always find it odd that the 53/453 defies the the splitting a Central London route numbering used on the 36/436 and 63/363. Its strange how the higher numbered route is the Central London one in this case but elswhere this is the inverse. I suppose that's because the 53 was cutback from Oxford Circus to Horse Guards with the 453 as mitigation whereas the 436 and 363 are manintaing links caused by shortening the 36 and 63 at the other end There may have been more outrage had Plumstead, Woolwich and Blackheath lost their long standing route number. Yes the Plumstead, Woolwich, Charlton & Blackheath crowd do have rather loud voices, recently been ignored, as the 53 has been cut back Plus the long-standing semi fast Charing Cross to Gillingham rail service was replaced by and all stops Thameslink service and in 2022 the Woolwich line will lose Charing Cross trains for good, meaning no more direct connection to the West End, the 53 could have been some compensation for this loss but look how that’s gone.... I know CrossRail will take people to the heart of the West End, but not everyone will use CrossRail, twenty years ago people predicted that the 53 would be redundant because of the JLE and look what happened there.... In early 1990s the plan was for there to be a 453 between E&C to Thamesmead while the 53 would have been truncated at New Cross Gate, and the local MP’s at the time were indeed very vocal about this change, hence why when the matter came up again ten years later in the early 2000s, not only did the outer section keep the 53 number but it was truncated just short of Trafalgar Square at Whitehall, while the 453 somewhat partially restore the old 53 routing just beyond Oxford Street to Marylebone, now TfL is in the business of butchering routes in the SE London area, all the while shouting “you have CrossRail, you have CrossRail!!” Some use that will be for commuters in Blackheath or Catford. Just think thirty years ago, Woolwich had two bus routes that went to the West End; the 53 & the 177, both of which had express variants, plus a semi fast train service to Charing Cross, now all thats gone
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Post by route53 on Jun 24, 2019 16:29:16 GMT
Stopping the X68 at Brixton would create all sorts of problems, I think somebody just saw it running non stop through Brixton and had a 'good idea' I think stopping the X68 at Brixton wouldn't be a good idea. Croydon Lib Dems wanted the X68 to stop at Brixton so that the residents of Crystal Palace and Norwood could access the Victoria Line but completely ignore the fact those areas already have direct bus links to Brixton: www.croydonlibdems.org/x68. The X68 needs to maintain its non stop section Norwood has the 196 which follows the X68/68/468 for most of the way, to Herne Hill then heads off to Brixton, and Croydon has the 50, 109 and 250 to Brixton, the X68 making one stop at Brixton would be utterly pointless.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2019 16:31:59 GMT
Stopping the X68 at Brixton would create all sorts of problems, I think somebody just saw it running non stop through Brixton and had a 'good idea' I think stopping the X68 at Brixton wouldn't be a good idea. Croydon Lib Dems wanted the X68 to stop at Brixton so that the residents of Crystal Palace and Norwood could access the Victoria Line but completely ignore the fact those areas already have direct bus links to Brixton: www.croydonlibdems.org/x68. The X68 needs to maintain its non stop section The fact it is a Lib Dem idea is very telling........ in the morning peak buses would fill up with tube users for Brixton and Central London passengers would get left behind.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 24, 2019 17:20:24 GMT
Plus the X68 is not supposed to drop off till central London. I guess it stops the bus being full of people going from say Whitehouse Road to Upper Norwood and taking the space up.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 24, 2019 18:00:10 GMT
I think stopping the X68 at Brixton wouldn't be a good idea. Croydon Lib Dems wanted the X68 to stop at Brixton so that the residents of Crystal Palace and Norwood could access the Victoria Line but completely ignore the fact those areas already have direct bus links to Brixton: www.croydonlibdems.org/x68. The X68 needs to maintain its non stop section Norwood has the 196 which follows the X68/68/468 for most of the way, to Herne Hill then heads off to Brixton, and Croydon has the 50, 109 and 250 to Brixton, the X68 making one stop at Brixton would be utterly pointless. Not just the 196 but the 2, 322 & 432 all link West Norwood & Brixton with the 2 having quite a high peak frequency - Lambeth Lib Dems have always been an odd lot and subsequently, very telling that they rarely get anywhere in a Labour run borough.
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