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Post by ian on Jul 1, 2019 18:28:59 GMT
Two that spring to mind for me were a 251 that went into Lyndhurst Avenue and Deansbrook Road (think I had to persuade him to turn round at the Orange Hill roundabout) and an N5 northbound that turned left instead of right at Montrose Avenue and ended up on the Edgware Road - vaguely recall him having to try and turn round in a petrol station forecourt as it was then at about 3 am!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2019 20:52:27 GMT
I've previously been on a 171 which was terminated at New Cross Fire Station (the stop outside the garage was closed). Anyhow, he did it by accident because he's used to driving the 36. He's only human after all and we do all make mistakes. I could see a driver turning in the wrong place because they are unfamiliar with the route they are driving when they drive another similar route which they are more familiar The 36 drivers also do the 171 as duties are split between the routes (as in most duties are first half 36, second half 171 or vice versa) and it is a combined rota due to driving hours restraints, so all 36 drivers would also be familiar with the 171 as they would do both routes.
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Post by arrivaarriva on Jul 5, 2019 11:29:15 GMT
I disagree that the 211 isn't a difficult route to memorize. 65-minutes end to end off peak and definitely not a "as the crow flies" simple route. Even a car driver inadvertently taking a wrong turn and finding himself in a street he has never driven down before might need a little help from a passer by to regain his intended route. What is the big deal with a bus driver who is momentarily lost asking his/her passengers for help. Do forum members really want the driver to simply shut down his bus and get on the radio asking for directions?
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Post by george on Jul 5, 2019 11:36:44 GMT
I disagree that the 211 isn't a difficult route to memorize. 65-minutes end to end off peak and definitely not a "as the crow flies" simple route. Even a car driver inadvertently taking a wrong turn and finding himself in a street he has never driven down before might need a little help from a passer by to regain his intended route. What is the big deal with a bus driver who is momentarily lost asking his/her passengers for help. Do forum members really want the driver to simply shut down his bus and get on the radio asking for directions? If you are comparing it to other routes in London then it is quite easy to memorize IMO. There's no problem with the driver asking for passengers to help but just make sure the passenger know exactly where to route goes first, I've helped a RR driver in Wandsworth before. In my opinion hardest route to memorize is either the G1 or K5 and easiest 337 which is just dead straight.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 11:42:13 GMT
I disagree that the 211 isn't a difficult route to memorize. 65-minutes end to end off peak and definitely not a "as the crow flies" simple route. Even a car driver inadvertently taking a wrong turn and finding himself in a street he has never driven down before might need a little help from a passer by to regain his intended route. What is the big deal with a bus driver who is momentarily lost asking his/her passengers for help. Do forum members really want the driver to simply shut down his bus and get on the radio asking for directions?Yes................that's exactly what the driver should do. Relying on passengers or passers by for directions, however well meaning they might be is just as likely to compound matters further. Clearly the driver shouldn't have been put in this situation in the first place and questions need to be asked about RATPs route learning practices/
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Post by vjaska on Jul 5, 2019 13:08:47 GMT
I disagree that the 211 isn't a difficult route to memorize. 65-minutes end to end off peak and definitely not a "as the crow flies" simple route. Even a car driver inadvertently taking a wrong turn and finding himself in a street he has never driven down before might need a little help from a passer by to regain his intended route. What is the big deal with a bus driver who is momentarily lost asking his/her passengers for help. Do forum members really want the driver to simply shut down his bus and get on the radio asking for directions? If you go back through this thread and re-read my post regarding a 196 driver who started taking directions from a passenger whilst on diversion and was metres away from taking his bus under a low bridge until I intervened and saved his job, you’ll see why taking directions from other passengers is not always a great thing to do.
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Post by rhys on Jul 5, 2019 13:20:59 GMT
I disagree that the 211 isn't a difficult route to memorize. 65-minutes end to end off peak and definitely not a "as the crow flies" simple route. Even a car driver inadvertently taking a wrong turn and finding himself in a street he has never driven down before might need a little help from a passer by to regain his intended route. What is the big deal with a bus driver who is momentarily lost asking his/her passengers for help. Do forum members really want the driver to simply shut down his bus and get on the radio asking for directions?Yes................that's exactly what the driver should do. Relying on passengers or passers by for directions, however well meaning they might be is just as likely to compound matters further. Clearly the driver shouldn't have been put in this situation in the first place and questions need to be asked about RATPs route learning practices/ I do agree with you to an extent, regarding drivers being in touch with their operator, if lost. Passengers can easily compromise the situation even further. Plus it also cover the driver's back, as I'm certain RATP and other bus operators have official practises in place if you get lost from your route. However, with regards to their route learning practises and the driver being put in that scenario, mistakes are always going to be made and lessons will be learnt from them, it's just a human way of life. People aren't machines after all. You could train someone extensively to the point of where your time and money are exhausted, but every single human remembers and processes information a lot differently, and there will always be some form of human error that will occur along the way. It's almost impossible to expect bus drivers and companies to achieve a level of perfection, especially when put in a brand new scenario, such as taking over a brand new route. Things won't always run as smoothly as planned. Plus, in the heat of the moment, wrong impulsive decision may happen.
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Post by sid on Jul 5, 2019 13:36:51 GMT
Yes................that's exactly what the driver should do. Relying on passengers or passers by for directions, however well meaning they might be is just as likely to compound matters further. Clearly the driver shouldn't have been put in this situation in the first place and questions need to be asked about RATPs route learning practices/ I do agree with you to an extent, regarding drivers being in touch with their operator, if lost. Passengers can easily compromise the situation even further. Plus it also cover the driver's back, as I'm certain RATP and other bus operators have official practises in place if you get lost from your route. However, with regards to their route learning practises and the driver being put in that scenario, mistakes are always going to be made and lessons will be learnt from them, it's just a human way of life. People aren't machines after all. You could train someone extensively to the point of where your time and money are exhausted, but every single human remembers and processes information a lot differently, and there will always be some form of human error that will occur along the way. It's almost impossible to expect bus drivers and companies to achieve a level of perfection, especially when put in a brand new scenario, such as taking over a brand new route. Things won't always run as smoothly as planned. Plus, in the heat of the moment, wrong impulsive decision may happen. Yes a well intending member of the public might direct a driver down a road that is unsuitable for buses for example. If any driver isn't familiar with the route though they should have a mentor with them, there used to be instances of drivers getting lost in the early days of route tendering and things have generally improved since then although I remember somebody else posting on here a while back about an RATP driver getting lost on a new route.
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Post by redbus on Jul 5, 2019 13:49:52 GMT
In life 'stuff happens'. With the best will in the world, and the best training you'll avoid this situation of getting lost from arising, however we are all human, things can fall through the cracks and such a scenario can, but should not arise. In the modern world of communications the driver can communicate centrally for guidance. In the old world there were no radios and I have been on buses before the days of radios where passengers such as myself have given guidance.
The key issue here is how to get back on route safely, only using roads the bus actually transverse. Now I shall be devils advocate. Often a passenger with local knowledge will know how to do this. Equally is there anyone at the end of the radio with the right knowledge to quickly how to get the bus back to line of route? I am not sure matters are always clear, but the driver will never be wrong by radioing in!
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Post by sid on Jul 5, 2019 14:00:42 GMT
In life 'stuff happens'. With the best will in the world, and the best training you'll avoid this situation of getting lost from arising, however we are all human, things can fall through the cracks and such a scenario can, but should not arise. In the modern world of communications the driver can communicate centrally for guidance. In the old world there were no radios and I have been on buses before the days of radios where passengers such as myself have given guidance. The key issue here is how to get back on route safely, only using roads the bus actually transverse. Now I shall be devils advocate. Often a passenger with local knowledge will know how to do this. Equally is there anyone at the end of the radio with the right knowledge to quickly how to get the bus back to line of route? I am not sure matters are always clear, but the driver will never be wrong by radioing in! Yes a driver will be covering themselves if they radio in rather than take advice from members of the public. I remember back in the early days of route tendering a London Country driver on the 197 missing the left turn into Doyle Road at Norwood Junction and was heading towards the low bridge although he had seen it. Being totally unfamiliar with the area, he was from Godstone, he was going to go in search of a phone box that was working but I was able to navigate him back to where he should be. All he had was some rather rudimentary instructions scribbled on a piece of paper.
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Post by hangerlane on Jul 6, 2019 20:35:38 GMT
Many years ago I was on Routemaster on the 8, when it still ran from Victoria. We were going along Piccadilly when I heard multiple bell rings. The driver had been driving extremely carefully and it was obvious it was one of his first trips, and he had missed Berkeley Square. Instead of going to Piccadilly Circus, up Regent Street and right at Oxford Circus to regain the route, I was treated to a tour of the back-roads of Mayfair.
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Post by Dillon95 on Jul 12, 2019 7:53:40 GMT
I've been on the 233 before in Swanley, and the driver went right to the top of Northview Hill rather than turn right into Sycamore Drive.
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Post by allentc on Jul 13, 2019 9:26:28 GMT
I had a driver on the 219 who missed the left turn on to Trinity Road at Tooting Bec station and instead went across the lights towards Balham. He quickly realized his error and pulled up outside Halfords backing the SOE into the car park to turn the bus around. He explained that he was normally on the 355 and used to automatically going across the lights. Mistakes happen and he impressed me with his expert reversing!
I also had a poor chap who was obviously put on the Sutton-Streatham rail replacement service at short notice. He had been given a poorly photocopied map and was struggling to read it. As its quite a common replacement service and I have done it end to end several times I was able to direct him all the way from Sutton to Streatham following the correct route.
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Post by sid on Jul 13, 2019 9:43:16 GMT
I had a driver on the 219 who missed the left turn on to Trinity Road at Tooting Bec station and instead went across the lights towards Balham. He quickly realized his error and pulled up outside Halfords backing the SOE into the car park to turn the bus around. He explained that he was normally on the 355 and used to automatically going across the lights. Mistakes happen and he impressed me with his expert reversing! I also had a poor chap who was obviously put on the Sutton-Streatham rail replacement service at short notice. He had been given a poorly photocopied map and was struggling to read it. As its quite a common replacement service and I have done it end to end several times I was able to direct him all the way from Sutton to Streatham following the correct route. I'm sure we've all made mistakes like that before and there is never a roundabout when you want one! Drivers getting lost on rail replacement services is by no means unusual, just not practical to have the same level of route learning for such occasional routes.
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Post by elcesteem16 on Jul 17, 2019 23:11:08 GMT
There was a time when the 136s and 181s were on diversion due to a house on fire on downham way (believe it was near headcorn road) anyways, This was back in late 2011 was in year 7 on my way to school at knights acamedy (terrible school may i add) i usually caught the bus from what it was then called “Bromley Road / The Pond” now “Green Man Community Hub “ found out 10 minutes later buses were on diversion up whitefoot lane right into Northover i literally missed the 181 so walked over to The Tigers Head Stop now Southend Lane an waited for a 136. Anyways, got on an oddly the bus went straight down on its LOR instesd of left on Whitefoot whuch was its diversion route. Part of me was like “has the diversion finished” but still didn’t feel right so i went down politely asked the driver if there was still a diversion, he replies with he didn’t know there was one, i said well the bus stop informed passengers about a diversion due to a fire in downham. He response wss well i’ve not heard anything about a diversion so i’ll be following normal routing. Got to headcorn road stop and right infront was a big blob of smoke. Drivers apologised to ne rang control shut engine and closed all windows strangely also had a can of air freshener. So was stuck on for atleast an hr and 45 mims didn’t mind though got mum to phone up school made it the school day shorter. 😂😂 was also nice to have a quick nap on the old tridents they had on the route for the first time before they were replaced by the E400Classics
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