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Post by rj131 on Jul 19, 2019 20:41:09 GMT
As someone who has done the 428 & 492 many times. I do support these changes except I don’t agree with cutting the 428 to Crayford because its busier than the 492. The 492 pretty much carries fresh air between Sidcup & Crayford and can cope with Single Deckers. Before the 96 was re-routed to Darent Valley Hospital the 428 between Dartford & Bluewater was busy, now it is very empty all the time between Dartford & Bluewater. Overall I think the 492 should be cut to Crayford and converted to Single deck operation and the 428 to Dartford and diverted to serve Station Road, Chastillian Road, Princes Road & Shepherds Lane as there are many people who use the 428 from Erith to Dartford and the residents of Chastillian Road have been asking for a more frequent service. In addition the 96 should be 24 Hour as result of these changes. I was intrigued to hear your opinion on this. Is the 492 well used with Bluewater passengers? I just wonder how people who live on the 492 will be annoyed that they’ll lose their direct bus link to a huge shopping centre. |
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Post by DT 11 on Jul 19, 2019 21:16:59 GMT
As someone who has done the 428 & 492 many times. I do support these changes except I don’t agree with cutting the 428 to Crayford because its busier than the 492. The 492 pretty much carries fresh air between Sidcup & Crayford and can cope with Single Deckers. Before the 96 was re-routed to Darent Valley Hospital the 428 between Dartford & Bluewater was busy, now it is very empty all the time between Dartford & Bluewater. Overall I think the 492 should be cut to Crayford and converted to Single deck operation and the 428 to Dartford and diverted to serve Station Road, Chastillian Road, Princes Road & Shepherds Lane as there are many people who use the 428 from Erith to Dartford and the residents of Chastillian Road have been asking for a more frequent service. In addition the 96 should be 24 Hour as result of these changes. I was intrigued to hear your opinion on this. Is the 492 well used with Bluewater passengers? I just wonder how people who live on the 492 will be annoyed that they’ll lose their direct bus link to a huge shopping centre. Not really no, only other than the locals who use it between Dartford & Bluewater because it’s cheaper than using the Country buses. The 492 only ever gets heavily used at Bluewater when the 96 is nowhere to be seen. To be quite Honest Stagecoach don’t do a good job running the route. Both the 96 & 422 I see as the most badly run routes in the Bexleyheaht area. |
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Post by rif153 on Jul 19, 2019 22:14:17 GMT
The 428 and 492 could swap fleets in that case, the two routes have similar PVRs
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Post by vjaska on Jul 19, 2019 22:24:32 GMT
I'll probably in the minority here but I disagree with most of the consultation - let me give personal opinion route by route:
Route 96 - whilst it's not changing, the 96 is a very busy route throughout and having been to Bluewater many times by bus despite not living anywhere remotely nearby, 90% of the 96's I saw over the years including right up to earlier this year have been busy or rammed solid and have seen people struggle to board them at Bluewater and take the 492 instead as a result
Route 428 - now the 96 serves the hospital, the 428's main link across the border has gone so can understand the cutback to an extent - however, the cutback is too severe and basically leaves it as a shuttle between Crayford & Erith when extending the 469 to Crayford and investigating the possibility of a double decker conversion would of made more sense. Dartford would of been a sensible compromise.
Route 492 - my observations seem to be wildly different from everyone else (no idea why) but many 492's I've seen & used from Bluewater over the years (if I was to put a percentage on it, over 50% but nowhere as high as the 90% I said for the 96) have either good loads or even busy loads despite the fact the 96 also serves Bluewater and runs non stop. My fear is that this will simply pile further pressure onto the long 96 which is prone to hitting traffic as well in places and people will be left standing at Bluewater waiting for a bus and deciding to pursue other transport options. Not only that but any cross Dartford custom on the 492 will be lost as a result
I know people will say that kent doesn't contribute to these routes but these routes still bring benefits to Londoners
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Post by stuckonthe486 on Jul 19, 2019 23:03:45 GMT
Not travelled on those routes for a good few years, but I do wonder how many shoppers in Erith/Slade Green and Crayford will just switch to cars. Seems a shame to lose cross-border links like this, and it does make me wonder how a regulated network outside London would deal with a situation like this (until 30 years ago London Country/Kentish Bus services used to run quite deep into the borough of Bexley, the 492 was a LC bus from Sidcup to Horton Kirby - via Thames Road? - until Bexleybus was created).
That said, the all-stops 492 plodding along through Stone and Horns Cross always seemed an anomaly from when it was introduced on day one of Bluewater opening - I remember reading years ago that the non-stop portion of the 96 to Bluewater was originally a commercial addition by Stagecoach, was it a similar decision with the all-stops 492? That can't have been popular with Arriva.
I know there are financial reasons for these cuts, but the mayor can't claim to be refocusing investment on outer London when TfL is removing choice from places like Crayford (and not even reinvesting some of the savings in the 96).
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Post by N230UD on Jul 19, 2019 23:13:56 GMT
Slightly off-topic, but is the 96 now allowed to use the Fastrack bus lane into Bluewater? The TfL map shown on the link shows it using the bus lane.
If I remember correctly, didn't it start using the bus lane, but was then eventually not allowed?
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Post by stuckonthe486 on Jul 19, 2019 23:37:01 GMT
Slightly off-topic, but is the 96 now allowed to use the Fastrack bus lane into Bluewater? The TfL map shown on the link shows it using the bus lane. If I remember correctly, didn't it start using the bus lane, but was then eventually not allowed? Yes, it runs via the bus lane and Darent Valley hospital now, which has apparently caused a drop in numbers on the 428. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Jul 20, 2019 0:30:49 GMT
The 428 and 492 could swap fleets in that case, the two routes have similar PVRs The 428's new contract was awarded with a PVR of 4, which should take into account the cutback to Crayford. There's a few spare 65reg Ts at DT (surplus to the 229/492), so I could see the 428 gaining these plus a few further Ts from the 492 cutback to Dartford. This wouls remove the need for any DDs to move to DT for the 428 |
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Post by busman on Jul 20, 2019 0:49:04 GMT
As someone who has done the 428 & 492 many times. I do support these changes except I don’t agree with cutting the 428 to Crayford because its busier than the 492. The 492 pretty much carries fresh air between Sidcup & Crayford and can cope with Single Deckers. Before the 96 was re-routed to Darent Valley Hospital the 428 between Dartford & Bluewater was busy, now it is very empty all the time between Dartford & Bluewater. Overall I think the 492 should be cut to Crayford and converted to Single deck operation and the 428 to Dartford and diverted to serve Station Road, Chastillian Road, Princes Road & Shepherds Lane as there are many people who use the 428 from Erith to Dartford and the residents of Chastillian Road have been asking for a more frequent service. In addition the 96 should be 24 Hour as result of these changes. 96 certainly would have night time demand between Dartford and Woolwich. Not sure if the night service should run through to Bluewater though. |
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Post by busman on Jul 20, 2019 1:04:46 GMT
I was intrigued to hear your opinion on this. Is the 492 well used with Bluewater passengers? I just wonder how people who live on the 492 will be annoyed that they’ll lose their direct bus link to a huge shopping centre. Not really no, only other than the locals who use it between Dartford & Bluewater because it’s cheaper than using the Country buses. The 492 only ever gets heavily used at Bluewater when the 96 is nowhere to be seen. To be quite Honest Stagecoach don’t do a good job running the route. Both the 96 & 422 I see as the most badly run routes in the Bexleyheaht area. I think the 96 is pretty well run and drivers tend to go as quickly as they can. I can’t remember the last time I was on a 96 that got regulated. I use it a lot and find it very reliable and frequent especially when compared to the Arriva Kent services I use in the Gravesend/Northfleet area. The 422 seems to have more East Wickham turns under Stagecoach, but still bunching is rare. Perhaps the reduced frequency that came with the new contract reduced the risk of bunching 😏 |
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Post by DT 11 on Jul 20, 2019 1:46:11 GMT
The 428 and 492 could swap fleets in that case, the two routes have similar PVRs The 428's new contract was awarded with a PVR of 4, which should take into account the cutback to Crayford. There's a few spare 65reg Ts at DT (surplus to the 229/492), so I could see the 428 gaining these plus a few further Ts from the 492 cutback to Dartford. This wouls remove the need for any DDs to move to DT for the 428 There are no surplus 65 Reg Ts... T301-322-229, T323-331-492 + 1 Shared with 160/660 |
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Post by DT 11 on Jul 20, 2019 2:00:11 GMT
Not really no, only other than the locals who use it between Dartford & Bluewater because it’s cheaper than using the Country buses. The 492 only ever gets heavily used at Bluewater when the 96 is nowhere to be seen. To be quite Honest Stagecoach don’t do a good job running the route. Both the 96 & 422 I see as the most badly run routes in the Bexleyheaht area. I think the 96 is pretty well run and drivers tend to go as quickly as they can. I can’t remember the last time I was on a 96 that got regulated. I use it a lot and find it very reliable and frequent especially when compared to the Arriva Kent services I use in the Gravesend/Northfleet area. The 422 seems to have more East Wickham turns under Stagecoach, but still bunching is rare. Perhaps the reduced frequency that came with the new contract reduced the risk of bunching 😏 That pretty much explains to me there not given enough time to do the route seems to be a Stagecoach thing, someone I know used to work for them and used to complain they didn’t get enough running time on some routes, this is why the 54 now uses 17 Buses instead of 16 as it was awarded in 2014 with 16 including a Frequency increase. Often see bunching and long gaps and buses curtailed on the 96. The 422 could do with being cut back to Woolwich. |
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Jul 20, 2019 2:21:55 GMT
I agree with the proposals on the premise that they review the loadings on the 96 after the changes are implemented between Crayford and Bluewater. I would also like to see the 96 gain a night service.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 10:09:13 GMT
Not really no, only other than the locals who use it between Dartford & Bluewater because it’s cheaper than using the Country buses. The 492 only ever gets heavily used at Bluewater when the 96 is nowhere to be seen. To be quite Honest Stagecoach don’t do a good job running the route. Both the 96 & 422 I see as the most badly run routes in the Bexleyheaht area. I think the 96 is pretty well run and drivers tend to go as quickly as they can. I can’t remember the last time I was on a 96 that got regulated. I use it a lot and find it very reliable and frequent especially when compared to the Arriva Kent services I use in the Gravesend/Northfleet area. The 422 seems to have more East Wickham turns under Stagecoach, but still bunching is rare. Perhaps the reduced frequency that came with the new contract reduced the risk of bunching 😏 Well with the 422, any route that goes through Greenwich is never going to be the most reliable. |
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Post by busaholic on Jul 20, 2019 11:56:03 GMT
I wonder why the 96 doesn't have a night service, it seems such an obvious case.
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