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Post by M1104 on Jul 24, 2019 9:16:24 GMT
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Post by wirewiper on Jul 25, 2019 17:46:21 GMT
Unfortunately, they no longer have a London Mayor with a plentiful supply of public money to spend on an expensive specialist product. Their products are now having to compete in the real world both inside and outside London.
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Post by snoggle on Jul 25, 2019 19:04:35 GMT
Unfortunately, they no longer have a London Mayor with a plentiful supply of public money to spend on an expensive specialist product. Their products are now having to compete in the real world both inside and outside London. Precisely and they would appear to have misjudged new technology choices as well. Not surprised to see them facing this sort of crisis given the ongoing issues with London's market plus commercial ops more generally in the UK. ADL would appear to be better at "listening" to customers new and old.
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Post by redbus on Jul 26, 2019 16:23:13 GMT
My impression has been that ADL have simply produced better products which more and more bus operators have bought.
For London their G3 (and predecessors) have been very successful, and I am sure they made money from NB4L. A problem they now face is that Operators are now able to still buy the Volvo chassis but with bodies from alternative manufacturers. With current cost pressures and fewer new buses being bought what is left of their market n London is sadly being snapped up by other manufacturers who use the Volvo chassis but with a body built abroad at a lower cost.
It seems sadly they have a real cash-hole that needs plugging and hopefully they will receive the investment they need. This investment will also be needed to improve their product range and also to design / build electric buses.
I don't think it is a lost cause at all, but they do have their work cut out and I really want them to succeed.
For what it is worth it is being reported that our new Prime Minister will do all that he can to help. You can make your own mind up as what that actually means in practice.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 26, 2019 16:32:30 GMT
My impression has been that ADL have simply produced better products which more and more bus operators have bought. For London their G3 (and predecessors) have been very successful, and I am sure they made money from NB4L. A problem they now face is that Operators are now able to still buy the Volvo chassis but with bodies from alternative manufacturers. With current cost pressures and fewer new buses being bought what is left of their market n London is sadly being snapped up by other manufacturers who use the Volvo chassis but with a body built abroad at a lower cost. It seems sadly they have a real cash-hole that needs plugging and hopefully they will receive the investment they need. This investment will also be needed to improve their product range and also to design / build electric buses. I don't think it is a lost cause at all, but they do have their work cut out and I really want them to succeed. For what it is worth it is being reported that our new Prime Minister will do all that he can to help. You can make your own mind up as what that actually means in practice. Seems Boris despite his time as Mayor hasn't realised how tendering works as he's blaming Sadiq Khan for the lack of London orders from Wright.
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Post by paulo on Jul 26, 2019 16:45:30 GMT
They have seriously misjudged the market. Growth this decades was fuelled by the NRM which was always unlikely to sell to other operators.
The Streetlite is renowned for poor performance issues and they turned their sleek Gemini offering into an awful looking vehicle. God know what the designers were thinking there.
Addd to this that they’re behind on an electric bus product so It’s a long road back for them now I fear. Orders are probably dependent on a lack of capacity from other builders rather than a desire to take on one of their models by choice.
Optare must be in a similar position I would say.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 26, 2019 16:57:20 GMT
They have seriously misjudged the market. Growth this decades was fuelled by the NRM which was always unlikely to sell to other operators. The Streetlite is renowned for poor performance issues and they turned their sleek Gemini offering into an awful looking vehicle. God know what the designers were thinking there. Addd to this that they’re behind on an electric bus product so It’s a long road back for them now I fear. Orders are probably dependent on a lack of capacity from other builders rather than a desire to take on one of their models by choice. Optare must be in a similar position I would say. Optare have the benefit of having an electric bus model to hand, should the bus type on the 134 prove itself I imagine we could see many more Metrodeckers in London. Not too sure what happened to the MetroCity electric however that doesn't look to have gone too well as the 312 always uses standard diesel buses while the trial one had to have extra batteries put on the roof.
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Post by ServerKing on Jul 27, 2019 0:28:05 GMT
Unfortunately, they no longer have a London Mayor with a plentiful supply of public money to spend on an expensive specialist product. Their products are now having to compete in the real world both inside and outside London. Precisely and they would appear to have misjudged new technology choices as well. Not surprised to see them facing this sort of crisis given the ongoing issues with London's market plus commercial ops more generally in the UK. ADL would appear to be better at "listening" to customers new and old. +1 Case in point : Streetdeck. Struggling with a tiny engine, poor construction, watching YouTube videos of the Brighton and Hove ones, as well as the Arriva demonstrator at Maidstone was painful. I doubt that bus on the M20 got above 45 miles an hour. You don't want to read the comments section on anything to do with the Streetlite either Streetlite looked odd when new (the old skool rubber seals around the blindbox and windshield), the pain bus operators have changing blindsets is well known. The bus has aged, and not just the batch on the 192 Arriva didn't dare putting new Streetlite buses in North London, and I doubt there will be any more orders, especially of Streetdeck hybrids for the 34. Not listening to customers is corporate suicide. It's like Epson or HP making only 5 different types of printer and telling customers to get on with it, buy them and stop moaning... StreetAir, based on an old SB200 was not going to give ADL/BYD sleepless nights. After the Gemini2, it all went pear shaped. Even the naming conventions where Streetdeck and Gemini3 are interchangeable is annoying. It was a good run while it lasted though
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Post by snowman on Jul 27, 2019 6:37:25 GMT
Wrightbus has a few regular big customers, but they all seem to be deserting them They have a big framework agreement with Lothian, but many of their recent purchases have gone to ADL, for E400XLB Singapore and Hong Kong seem less keen as alternative production in Malaysia etc (eg ADL factory) can take over The massive Dublin fleet modernisation is ending and Transport for Ireland is going to tender next orders First Group have virtually stopped ordering (long gone are those pre Olympics bus orders in many hundreds) They have relied on heavy development subsidies and grants for the Boris Bus, and recently hydrogen buses, but not noticed there isn’t really a strong market for them. Have sold only a token number of electric buses whilst others have products that are being bought. They don’t really sell themselves well, go on a competitors website and will see the technical specs, go on Wrightbus site and info is sparse or old. I would guess their order book is rather thin, can’t remember seeing any recent announcements of orders won. www.wrightsgroup.com/news/news_item/homeIn my view a statement made in late July (more than half way through the year) referring to a strong 2019 order book says nothing about orders running into 2020. Clearly trying to hide the future prospects by quoting a period 60% in the past (and it is 60% if you allow for factory holiday weeks)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2019 8:39:54 GMT
Precisely and they would appear to have misjudged new technology choices as well. Not surprised to see them facing this sort of crisis given the ongoing issues with London's market plus commercial ops more generally in the UK. ADL would appear to be better at "listening" to customers new and old. +1 Case in point : Streetdeck. Struggling with a tiny engine, poor construction, watching YouTube videos of the Brighton and Hove ones, as well as the Arriva demonstrator at Maidstone was painful. I doubt that bus on the M20 got above 45 miles an hour. You don't want to read the comments section on anything to do with the Streetlite either Streetlite looked odd when new (the old skool rubber seals around the blindbox and windshield), the pain bus operators have changing blindsets is well known. The bus has aged, and not just the batch on the 192 Arriva didn't dare putting new Streetlite buses in North London, and I doubt there will be any more orders, especially of Streetdeck hybrids for the 34. Not listening to customers is corporate suicide. It's like Epson or HP making only 5 different types of printer and telling customers to get on with it, buy them and stop moaning... StreetAir, based on an old SB200 was not going to give ADL/BYD sleepless nights. After the Gemini2, it all went pear shaped. Even the naming conventions where Streetdeck and Gemini3 are interchangeable is annoying. It was a good run while it lasted though I don't know if this has been mentioned but Arriva Kent have a batch of Streetdecks due in November for Sapphire route 101 that gets new buses every few years. Hopefully they will perform better on the hilly terrain than previous examples.
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Post by ServerKing on Jul 27, 2019 21:02:03 GMT
+1 Case in point : Streetdeck. Struggling with a tiny engine, poor construction, watching YouTube videos of the Brighton and Hove ones, as well as the Arriva demonstrator at Maidstone was painful. I doubt that bus on the M20 got above 45 miles an hour. You don't want to read the comments section on anything to do with the Streetlite either Streetlite looked odd when new (the old skool rubber seals around the blindbox and windshield), the pain bus operators have changing blindsets is well known. The bus has aged, and not just the batch on the 192 Arriva didn't dare putting new Streetlite buses in North London, and I doubt there will be any more orders, especially of Streetdeck hybrids for the 34. Not listening to customers is corporate suicide. It's like Epson or HP making only 5 different types of printer and telling customers to get on with it, buy them and stop moaning... StreetAir, based on an old SB200 was not going to give ADL/BYD sleepless nights. After the Gemini2, it all went pear shaped. Even the naming conventions where Streetdeck and Gemini3 are interchangeable is annoying. It was a good run while it lasted though I don't know if this has been mentioned but Arriva Kent have a batch of Streetdecks due in November for Sapphire route 101 that gets new buses every few years. Hopefully they will perform better on the hilly terrain than previous examples. Glutton for punishment, eh? They best be the bigger engined ones unless they don't want to go above 35 I know the Kent Thameside drivers love to thrash the buses (have seen youtube videos of the ex-North West 'DW's') and would be disappointed with a gutless StreetDeck
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Post by galwhv69 on Aug 3, 2019 12:12:10 GMT
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Post by busaholic on Aug 3, 2019 13:34:10 GMT
How much has Arlene demanded?!
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Post by vjaska on Aug 3, 2019 14:03:37 GMT
Great, not content with wasting money on a certain bus, let’s waste money bailing out a body builder who have only themselves to blame for the mess they’re in just so Boris can please the DUP as busaholic mentioned No doubt the word “foreign” will get mentioned!
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Post by ThinLizzy on Sept 17, 2019 18:05:08 GMT
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