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Post by arrivaarriva on Jul 29, 2019 23:53:19 GMT
Adelaide Grove bus stop on the Uxbridge Road, lunchtime today. 260 approaches, indicates he is pulling in, actually pulls into the stop but doesn't actually come to a stop despite three of us right at the kerbside waiting. Just pulls in and immediately pulls away. Driver even appears to be looking at us as he draws level.
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Post by Pilot on Jul 30, 2019 15:54:47 GMT
Drivers don't do this for no reason, 99% of the time he anticipated stopping because driver saw you, you were still standing still like a candle with no signs that you want this bus and drove off.
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Post by Nathan on Jul 30, 2019 16:47:52 GMT
Drivers don't do this for no reason, 99% of the time he anticipated stopping because driver saw you, you were still standing still like a candle with no signs that you want this bus and drove off. I sometimes see people standing at the bus stop not waving their hand out to hail the bus then be confused when it doesn't stop. I mean, how is a driver supposed to know you want the bus if you don't request it? I see drivers will slow down and/or stop if they see something like this, which is fair enough. But as a passenger I don't see why they should really. It's really not hard to hold your hand out for a second to get the bus to stop. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2019 17:00:12 GMT
Drivers don't do this for no reason, 99% of the time he anticipated stopping because driver saw you, you were still standing still like a candle with no signs that you want this bus and drove off. I sometimes see people standing at the bus stop not waving their hand out to hail the bus then be confused when it doesn't stop. I mean, how is a driver supposed to know you want the bus if you don't request it? I see drivers will slow down and/or stop if they see something like this, which is fair enough. But as a passenger I don't see why they should really. It's really not hard to hold your hand out for a second to get the bus to stop. The rule is now that drivers should stop if there is anybody at the stop hand out or not. Often people are engrossed in their phone or whatever and don't see the bus approaching. Also people with poor eyesight might not be able to identify the bus until it has stopped. |
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Post by Pilot on Jul 30, 2019 17:08:24 GMT
I sometimes see people standing at the bus stop not waving their hand out to hail the bus then be confused when it doesn't stop. I mean, how is a driver supposed to know you want the bus if you don't request it? I see drivers will slow down and/or stop if they see something like this, which is fair enough. But as a passenger I don't see why they should really. It's really not hard to hold your hand out for a second to get the bus to stop. The rule is now that drivers should stop if there is anybody at the stop hand out or not. Often people are engrossed in their phone or whatever and don't see the bus approaching. Also people with poor eyesight might not be able to identify the bus until it has stopped. Yes you are right about the people with sight issues or deaf/disabled and so on, but if we're super honest that's a rare case anyways...especially when driver is approaching bus stop where 3 teenagers are dancing around and then throw rocks at bus for not stopping when it goes past. |
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Post by thewintersoldier on Jul 31, 2019 8:56:06 GMT
When I drove I used to slow down and flash my headlights at you once you’ve stuck your arm out. I spent my days on north circular routes (112,232) so if I pull into a stop back in the days with DML’s EDR’s DLD’s and TA/TAL’s it could take a while for a kind soul to let you out and these ageing buses took quite a while to get a decent speed and struggled to get to about 30mph.
It was integral to signify you wanted the bus and I think most passengers along these routes where they ran every 30 minutes on some occasions would make it very clear they wanted you to stop!
We now live in the age of technology now where people have rounded necks by looking down at their phone for about 80% of their lives and spend a higher percentage with Rizzle kicks or Drake in their ears so their senses are dimmed and they are quick to give you the old “vinegar stroke” sign as you drive past them having slowed down quite drastically with them showing no intention they want the vehicle.
It’s always going to be a tough one for both driver and “passenger” but living in a world where neither is a mind reader and with not enough time to assess situations fully; these sort of things unfortunately happen.
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Post by SILENCED on Jul 31, 2019 9:22:02 GMT
When I drove I used to slow down and flash my headlights at you once you’ve stuck your arm out. I spent my days on north circular routes (112,232) so if I pull into a stop back in the days with DML’s EDR’s DLD’s and TA/TAL’s it could take a while for a kind soul to let you out and these ageing buses took quite a while to get a decent speed and struggled to get to about 30mph. It was integral to signify you wanted the bus and I think most passengers along these routes where they ran every 30 minutes on some occasions would make it very clear they wanted you to stop! We now live in the age of technology now where people have rounded necks by looking down at their phone for about 80% of their lives and spend a higher percentage with Rizzle kicks or Drake in their ears so their senses are dimmed and they are quick to give you the old “vinegar stroke” sign as you drive past them having slowed down quite drastically with them showing no intention they want the vehicle. It’s always going to be a tough one for both driver and “passenger” but living in a world where neither is a mind reader and with not enough time to assess situations fully; these sort of things unfortunately happen. Why is it tough, seems pretty simple? There are no longer request stops, all are compulsory stops. If people are waiting at a stop, it is compulsory to stop, no ifs and buts. Where is the requirement for a intending passenger to give the driver some sign of intention of boarding? Mind reading is not required ... you stop. |
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Post by thewintersoldier on Jul 31, 2019 9:39:27 GMT
When I drove I used to slow down and flash my headlights at you once you’ve stuck your arm out. I spent my days on north circular routes (112,232) so if I pull into a stop back in the days with DML’s EDR’s DLD’s and TA/TAL’s it could take a while for a kind soul to let you out and these ageing buses took quite a while to get a decent speed and struggled to get to about 30mph. It was integral to signify you wanted the bus and I think most passengers along these routes where they ran every 30 minutes on some occasions would make it very clear they wanted you to stop! We now live in the age of technology now where people have rounded necks by looking down at their phone for about 80% of their lives and spend a higher percentage with Rizzle kicks or Drake in their ears so their senses are dimmed and they are quick to give you the old “vinegar stroke” sign as you drive past them having slowed down quite drastically with them showing no intention they want the vehicle. It’s always going to be a tough one for both driver and “passenger” but living in a world where neither is a mind reader and with not enough time to assess situations fully; these sort of things unfortunately happen. Why is it though, seems pretty simple. There are no longer request stops, all are compulsory stops. There if people are waiting at a stop it is compulsory to stop, no ifs and buts. Where is the requirement for a intending passenger to give the drive some sign of intention of boarding? I hear you 100%, I don’t disagree with you. But people now stand or sit at bus stops not intending to board buses. It can be frustrating from a drivers point of view also, as I used the examples on some routes where pulling into a stop can take a while to get out. The 260 was mentioned. The bus stop southbound at Savoy Circus. You stop there and then you need to cut across 3 lanes on the A40 to make that right turn to continue towards White City. It’s a very dangerous manoeuvre at the best of times and ideally I’d like a passenger to be either standing at the stop or with their arm out (not controlling anyone alighting obviously) so I know in good notice I need to be stopping there, otherwise I’m thinking “ok nobody there, no one around to make a last minute dash, right side mirror, let’s find a gap” without coming to a dead stop and having to do the same where nobody is gonna let you out because you are in a bus. It’s infuriating to me when a driver passes me, I just shrug it off as these things happen and crack on. Reality of it is, where there’s a human element involved people will do things different to others and you’ll find drivers who stop at every stop (rare nowadays!) some who slow down and try to make it obvious that they are waiting for some sort of movement from the person at the stop, and others who are not intending to stop until an arm is out. I can assure you if drivers stopped at every stop when bus stops are empty, passengers would get on their case, the same people who ask drivers why they are driving too slow. Not too sure about the training now, perhaps someone can shed some light? |
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Post by SILENCED on Jul 31, 2019 10:07:24 GMT
Why is it though, seems pretty simple. There are no longer request stops, all are compulsory stops. There if people are waiting at a stop it is compulsory to stop, no ifs and buts. Where is the requirement for a intending passenger to give the drive some sign of intention of boarding? I hear you 100%, I don’t disagree with you. But people now stand or sit at bus stops not intending to board buses. It can be frustrating from a drivers point of view also, as I used the examples on some routes where pulling into a stop can take a while to get out. The 260 was mentioned. The bus stop southbound at Savoy Circus. You stop there and then you need to cut across 3 lanes on the A40 to make that right turn to continue towards White City. It’s a very dangerous manoeuvre at the best of times and ideally I’d like a passenger to be either standing at the stop or with their arm out (not controlling anyone alighting obviously) so I know in good notice I need to be stopping there, otherwise I’m thinking “ok nobody there, no one around to make a last minute dash, right side mirror, let’s find a gap” without coming to a dead stop and having to do the same where nobody is gonna let you out because you are in a bus. It’s infuriating to me when a driver passes me, I just shrug it off as these things happen and crack on. Reality of it is, where there’s a human element involved people will do things different to others and you’ll find drivers who stop at every stop (rare nowadays!) some who slow down and try to make it obvious that they are waiting for some sort of movement from the person at the stop, and others who are not intending to stop until an arm is out. I can assure you if drivers stopped at every stop when bus stops are empty, passengers would get on their case, the same people who ask drivers why they are driving too slow. Not too sure about the training now, perhaps someone can shed some light? Don't disagree with you, the current arrangements may not be perfect, but they are what they currently are. Are the public really not to be trusted as to how to behave at 2 different kind of bus stops ... compulsory and request ... come on, it is not that difficult to get your head around. |
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Post by thewintersoldier on Jul 31, 2019 10:23:10 GMT
I hear you 100%, I don’t disagree with you. But people now stand or sit at bus stops not intending to board buses. It can be frustrating from a drivers point of view also, as I used the examples on some routes where pulling into a stop can take a while to get out. The 260 was mentioned. The bus stop southbound at Savoy Circus. You stop there and then you need to cut across 3 lanes on the A40 to make that right turn to continue towards White City. It’s a very dangerous manoeuvre at the best of times and ideally I’d like a passenger to be either standing at the stop or with their arm out (not controlling anyone alighting obviously) so I know in good notice I need to be stopping there, otherwise I’m thinking “ok nobody there, no one around to make a last minute dash, right side mirror, let’s find a gap” without coming to a dead stop and having to do the same where nobody is gonna let you out because you are in a bus. It’s infuriating to me when a driver passes me, I just shrug it off as these things happen and crack on. Reality of it is, where there’s a human element involved people will do things different to others and you’ll find drivers who stop at every stop (rare nowadays!) some who slow down and try to make it obvious that they are waiting for some sort of movement from the person at the stop, and others who are not intending to stop until an arm is out. I can assure you if drivers stopped at every stop when bus stops are empty, passengers would get on their case, the same people who ask drivers why they are driving too slow. Not too sure about the training now, perhaps someone can shed some light? Don't disagree with you, the current arrangements may not be perfect, but they are what they currently are. Are the public really not to be trusted as to how to behave at 2 different kind of bus stops ... compulsory and request ... come on, it is not that difficult to get your head around. Not everyone looks at these things on bus stops anyway, people constantly stood at bus stops where there’s giant yellow “BUS STOP NOT IN USE” signs trying to hail buses, people pressing the bell for a stop just after the bus has announced the next stop has closed, guess where they want to get off!?!the tuts and groans that occur when a bus gets a short turn which is announced multiple times by IBUS but when it gets to the destination, people don’t alight and when they suddenly realise it’s not going any further; there’s moaning and complaints, let’s not even go down stops that say “Queue this side/other side!” We are living in a world where roundabouts are being changed to squares to “simplify”, one way streets are becoming two way again to make things “simple” and LT boarding arrangements are being “simplified” It’s not difficult to get your head around you ask?  |
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Post by foxhat on Jul 31, 2019 10:49:46 GMT
Funnily enough you do anywhere outside of London and EVERYONE hails a bus down correctly and even bus timetable booklets remind people to "stick their arm out in plenty of time to hail a bus". I accept rules are rules but why must London line in a Nanny state where everything is done for them and no one has to do any effort? You want the bus? You hail it, regardless of whether it should stop or not. The bus is more likely to stop if you hail it than if you're sat in the shelter engrossed in your mind-controlling phone.
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Post by busaholic on Jul 31, 2019 10:52:00 GMT
Don't disagree with you, the current arrangements may not be perfect, but they are what they currently are. Are the public really not to be trusted as to how to behave at 2 different kind of bus stops ... compulsory and request ... come on, it is not that difficult to get your head around. Not everyone looks at these things on bus stops anyway, people constantly stood at bus stops where there’s giant yellow “BUS STOP NOT IN USE” signs trying to hail buses, people pressing the bell for a stop just after the bus has announced the next stop has closed, guess where they want to get off!?!the tuts and groans that occur when a bus gets a short turn which is announced multiple times by IBUS but when it gets to the destination, people don’t alight and when they suddenly realise it’s not going any further; there’s moaning and complaints, let’s not even go down stops that say “Queue this side/other side!” We are living in a world where roundabouts are being changed to squares to “simplify”, one way streets are becoming two way again to make things “simple” and LT boarding arrangements are being “simplified” It’s not difficult to get your head around you ask? My sympathies are with you, and all the decent, sensible bus drivers which are probably still the majority, although that may not apply to all areas or individual routes at a particular time. Even with the cuts, there are many more bus drivers in London now compared to the turn of the century and, unfortunately, the same standards in bus driving can't be applied as was the case when all new drivers had to go through the Chiswick system, which was good at weeding out those with a bad attitude as well as instilling 'second nature' driving skills. Back in the day I can rarely remember ever seeing a London bus ever going onto, or pulling off, a stop without signalling, even if there was no apparent traffic around. Where I live now, with Firstbus drivers, as a motorist you never know whether the bus is going to signal at all or intermittently: obviously some drivers will observe the protocols. I have noticed that on the buses fitted with driver seatbelts, it's the drivers that wear them that are much more likely to signal, but that's only my impression! |
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Post by kmkcheng on Jul 31, 2019 11:21:54 GMT
Just had this experience on the 197. There’s a mum with her young child and buggy at a stop. Bus approaches the stop, no movement from the mum. Bus slows down, still no movement from the mum. Bus actually stops at the stop but still no movement. Bus about to drive off, the mum decided she needs our bus.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 31, 2019 11:49:15 GMT
Funnily enough you do anywhere outside of London and EVERYONE hails a bus down correctly and even bus timetable booklets remind people to "stick their arm out in plenty of time to hail a bus". I accept rules are rules but why must London line in a Nanny state where everything is done for them and no one has to do any effort? You want the bus? You hail it, regardless of whether it should stop or not. The bus is more likely to stop if you hail it than if you're sat in the shelter engrossed in your mind-controlling phone. Because passengers in London behave like idiots as harsh as that sounds. This also extends to when they go shopping as I've found out over the years - standing and looking right at the product they want, unable to follow simple directions and even not knowing what shop they've walked into. |
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Post by Pilot on Jul 31, 2019 15:02:30 GMT
Just had this experience on the 197. There’s a mum with her young child and buggy at a stop. Bus approaches the stop, no movement from the mum. Bus slows down, still no movement from the mum. Bus actually stops at the stop but still no movement. Bus about to drive off, the mum decided she needs our bus. Yeah because world evolves around them. |
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