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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 0:02:16 GMT
I've come back to London from overseas recently and gathered information that these State of Art vehicles were for sure introduced by the previous mayor Mr Boris Johnson.
Seen as the incumbent mayor has hardly any interest in the vehicles (going by what I have been told!) What are the future of these vehicles?
Major revenue loss is being made as passengers are treating the vehicle as a "free bus" and boarding from middle and rear doors. Recently routes 8/N8 have been changed to front door boarding only which could be implemented to other Routemaster routes. I know that in general vehicles last for 15 years or so, will more of these vehicles be made for new routes and even for the current routes they are operated with? It would be sensible to build them with 2 doors only...
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Post by vjaska on Aug 23, 2019 1:20:19 GMT
I've come back to London from overseas recently and gathered information that these State of Art vehicles were for sure introduced by the previous mayor Mr Boris Johnson. Seen as the incumbent mayor has hardly any interest in the vehicles (going by what I have been told!) What are the future of these vehicles? Major revenue loss is being made as passengers are treating the vehicle as a "free bus" and boarding from middle and rear doors. Recently routes 8/N8 have been changed to front door boarding only which could be implemented to other Routemaster routes. I know that in general vehicles last for 15 years or so, will more of these vehicles be made for new routes and even for the current routes they are operated with? It would be sensible to build them with 2 doors only... No more will be built because the final agreement was to build 1000 models which was met. The current ones are due to go through a refurb as many have recently begun new contracts and once they've gone, they'll be replaced by convetional vehicles or if another mayor decides to poke his nose in where it's not required in terms of proposing a new bus.
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Post by snowman on Aug 23, 2019 5:46:09 GMT
I've come back to London from overseas recently and gathered information that these State of Art vehicles were for sure introduced by the previous mayor Mr Boris Johnson. Seen as the incumbent mayor has hardly any interest in the vehicles (going by what I have been told!) What are the future of these vehicles? Major revenue loss is being made as passengers are treating the vehicle as a "free bus" and boarding from middle and rear doors. Recently routes 8/N8 have been changed to front door boarding only which could be implemented to other Routemaster routes. I know that in general vehicles last for 15 years or so, will more of these vehicles be made for new routes and even for the current routes they are operated with? It would be sensible to build them with 2 doors only... No more will be built because the final agreement was to build 1000 models which was met. The current ones are due to go through a refurb as many have recently begun new contracts and once they've gone, they'll be replaced by convetional vehicles or if another mayor decides to poke his nose in where it's not required in terms of proposing a new bus. The problem is the buses are quite poorly packaged, having been intended to operate some of the time with open rear platform. They were overweight and have never been rated to carry the minimum of 87 passengers that TfL expects from double decks. Wrightbus quality left much to be desired, not so much in the parts on show, but in the robustness of some of the equipment they chose, everything from poor batteries to feeble air cooling, not helped by design issues which allowed engine heat into the saloon in summer. As they are already paid for, probably get used 14-16 years, no point in paying for alternative until these are life expired, but if electric buses take over central London routes some could easily end up working out their days on suburban routes. TfL doesn’t really operate peak hour extras (its between the peaks service level is not much lower than peak), but there is a possibility that cost cutting could see these reintroduced with much lower normal (off-peak) frequencies on some routes. If so TfL might decide something along lines of awarding a route with say 20 buses plus 7 LTs for peak hours only, almost a supplementary service at peak hours. And if they are by then in the suburbs, a mix of peak and school route usage in their twilight years could happen (and if only used part time, some might survive nearer 17 years).
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Post by busman on Aug 23, 2019 5:50:47 GMT
I've come back to London from overseas recently and gathered information that these State of Art vehicles were for sure introduced by the previous mayor Mr Boris Johnson. Seen as the incumbent mayor has hardly any interest in the vehicles (going by what I have been told!) What are the future of these vehicles? Major revenue loss is being made as passengers are treating the vehicle as a "free bus" and boarding from middle and rear doors. Recently routes 8/N8 have been changed to front door boarding only which could be implemented to other Routemaster routes. I know that in general vehicles last for 15 years or so, will more of these vehicles be made for new routes and even for the current routes they are operated with? It would be sensible to build them with 2 doors only... Welcome back to the UK. A 2 door variant to the New Routemaster is/was available - the SRM. The RATP class code is VHR. There is a good write-up of this chapter of bus history here: citytransport.info/London.htm
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Post by M1104 on Aug 23, 2019 8:33:30 GMT
A pity a relevant number of LTs couldn't be swapped around with tri-axle buses from London's sightseeing sector. Both types would be more beneficial in their alternative roles following amendment in specs.
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Post by galwhv69 on Aug 23, 2019 9:32:47 GMT
I've come back to London from overseas recently and gathered information that these State of Art vehicles were for sure introduced by the previous mayor Mr Boris Johnson. Seen as the incumbent mayor has hardly any interest in the vehicles (going by what I have been told!) What are the future of these vehicles? Major revenue loss is being made as passengers are treating the vehicle as a "free bus" and boarding from middle and rear doors. Recently routes 8/N8 have been changed to front door boarding only which could be implemented to other Routemaster routes. I know that in general vehicles last for 15 years or so, will more of these vehicles be made for new routes and even for the current routes they are operated with? It would be sensible to build them with 2 doors only... Welcome back to the UK. A 2 door variant to the New Routemaster is/was available - the SRM. The RATP class code is VHR. There is a good write-up of this chapter of bus history here: citytransport.info/London.htmIts been discontinued unfortunately
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Post by rif153 on Aug 26, 2019 19:59:05 GMT
No more will be built because the final agreement was to build 1000 models which was met. The current ones are due to go through a refurb as many have recently begun new contracts and once they've gone, they'll be replaced by convetional vehicles or if another mayor decides to poke his nose in where it's not required in terms of proposing a new bus. The problem is the buses are quite poorly packaged, having been intended to operate some of the time with open rear platform. They were overweight and have never been rated to carry the minimum of 87 passengers that TfL expects from double decks. Wrightbus quality left much to be desired, not so much in the parts on show, but in the robustness of some of the equipment they chose, everything from poor batteries to feeble air cooling, not helped by design issues which allowed engine heat into the saloon in summer. As they are already paid for, probably get used 14-16 years, no point in paying for alternative until these are life expired, but if electric buses take over central London routes some could easily end up working out their days on suburban routes. TfL doesn’t really operate peak hour extras (its between the peaks service level is not much lower than peak), but there is a possibility that cost cutting could see these reintroduced with much lower normal (off-peak) frequencies on some routes. If so TfL might decide something along lines of awarding a route with say 20 buses plus 7 LTs for peak hours only, almost a supplementary service at peak hours. And if they are by then in the suburbs, a mix of peak and school route usage in their twilight years could happen (and if only used part time, some might survive nearer 17 years). Whilst I don't like LTs, I think one good thing that came out of the New Routemaster was that the quality of buses has improved. The NRM was in part to address the falling quality of buses, but since the introduction of the LT, the quality of conventionals has improved. ADL were forced to up their game after Wrightbus won the contract to build the New Routemaster, now we've seen ADL bring out the MMC, a fantastic bus which is of superior build quality to the Gemini 3. Wright, and MCV have had to up their game too to compete with ADL, increasing competition to build better buses so in that respect the introduction of the NRM has had positive effects.
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Post by M1104 on Sept 13, 2019 19:25:34 GMT
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Post by snowman on Sept 13, 2019 20:23:57 GMT
There are rumours that Wrightbus haven’t shipped any buses for few days (don’t know how true it is) including some for Arriva. I suspect that it suggests more problems than are being released, perhaps ferry company wasn’t paid. Wonder if the 2 RATP buses for 681 are also caught up in this.
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Post by rif153 on Sept 13, 2019 21:06:08 GMT
There are rumours that Wrightbus haven’t shipped any buses for few days (don’t know how true it is) including some for Arriva. I suspect that that suggests more problems than are being released, perhaps ferry company wasn’t paid. Wonder if the 2 RATP buses for 681 are also caught up in this. Seem likely, its ridiculous that the contract began on 7th May this year and the new buses are nowhere to be seen. I was about to say they might be London's first 69 plate buses, but at this rate, 20 reg might be a more realistic guess!
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Post by snowman on Sept 16, 2019 11:37:30 GMT
The latest news coming out of Northern Ireland suggests Wrightbus need a cash injection of about £30m to survive.
The business media are suggesting that the Chinese company Wenchai is loosing interest after doing its due diligence, deadlines were said to be last week, but have possibly been extended few days. Other possible bidders are thought to have looked, but walked away.
Now sounds like a Northern Ireland businessman, Darren Donnelly, is looking to buy it. He previously owned an articulated lorry trailer business, SDC trailers, but sold it the Chinese for almost £100m in 2016
Other reports are suggesting that if a satisfactory buyer doesn't come along, then Wrightbus may go into administration by the end of the week. If it does, no idea what would happen to the 20 hydrogen buses on order for Metroline / TfL
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Post by rj131 on Sept 16, 2019 11:53:13 GMT
The latest news coming out of Northern Ireland suggests Wrightbus need a cash injection of about £30m to survive. The business media are suggesting that the Chinese company Wenchai is loosing interest after doing its due diligence, deadlines were said to be last week, but have possibly been extended few days. Other possible bidders are thought to have looked, but walked away. Now sounds like a Northern Ireland businessman, Darren Donnelly, is looking to buy it. He previously owned an articulated lorry trailer business, SDC trailers, but sold it the Chinese for almost £100m in 2016 Other reports are suggesting that if a satisfactory buyer doesn't come along, then Wrightbus may go into administration by the end of the week. If it does, no idea what would happen to the 20 hydrogen buses on order for Metroline / TfL Wow, can’t believe the state of affairs at Wrightbus have declined that quickly. While it is sad, I really can’t say I have a lot of sympathy. If you make a cr*p product, you can hardly blame customers for taking their custom elsewhere. Unless there are other factors I haven’t considered, the whole downward spiral seems to have originated from losing customers left right and centre. This surely wouldn’t have happened if their new generation of bus was equal or better quality compared with the Gemini 2. ADL in contrast with their new generation MMC took a massive step forward compared to the last, IMO one of the best buses ever made, both single and double deckers. Lo and behold, they’ve got a lot of new custom.
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Post by snowman on Sept 17, 2019 9:11:18 GMT
It appears that Darren Donnelly has pulled out of buying Wrightbus
Rumours are that son of JCB founder is interested in part (but about half would be redundancies), and Chinese firm Weichai is still a possibility. Doesn't sound good to me
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Post by Pilot on Sept 17, 2019 11:07:20 GMT
Who actually likes the look of 2 door SRMs? I honestly feel like 400City did better job design wise. I was never even a fan of LTZ front nose in general, and the only thing outside of it they kept original is the front nose which is meh... While I know rear doors got TFL scammed, I feel like it was unique looking bus at least, SRM could have made something better, but they probably just rushed the design and pushed it out.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Sept 17, 2019 11:21:19 GMT
The latest news coming out of Northern Ireland suggests Wrightbus need a cash injection of about £30m to survive. The business media are suggesting that the Chinese company Wenchai is loosing interest after doing its due diligence, deadlines were said to be last week, but have possibly been extended few days. Other possible bidders are thought to have looked, but walked away. Now sounds like a Northern Ireland businessman, Darren Donnelly, is looking to buy it. He previously owned an articulated lorry trailer business, SDC trailers, but sold it the Chinese for almost £100m in 2016 Other reports are suggesting that if a satisfactory buyer doesn't come along, then Wrightbus may go into administration by the end of the week. If it does, no idea what would happen to the 20 hydrogen buses on order for Metroline / TfL Wow, can’t believe the state of affairs at Wrightbus have declined that quickly. While it is sad, I really can’t say I have a lot of sympathy. If you make a cr*p product, you can hardly blame customers for taking their custom elsewhere. Unless there are other factors I haven’t considered, the whole downward spiral seems to have originated from losing customers left right and centre. This surely wouldn’t have happened if their new generation of bus was equal or better quality compared with the Gemini 2. ADL in contrast with their new generation MMC took a massive step forward compared to the last, IMO one of the best buses ever made, both single and double deckers. Lo and behold, they’ve got a lot of new custom. A bit of a shame. Wrightbus started to flood London in the early 90's with the Handybus body on the Dennis Dart and the infamous LLW/SLW. They quickly disappeared from the market in mid 990's from London orders, although had a few Dennis Dart bodied SLFs They came back with the Cadet late 90's in London then when their double deck body came in 2001 took a big chunk of London orders and established themselves as being body builder 3rd/4th place in London to body builder 2 after PLaxton/Alexander merger. Around the time of the New Routemaster, most of the orders for London double decks was going to Wrightbus. It seems as you mention the Gemini3 onwards was the downfall. I cant fault the Gemini 3 though, I still think it is a good product, but they then had ADL make an excellent product with the MMC range. Wrightbus may have hedged to much on the New Routemaster and its B5LH New Routemaster which has come to nothing. Shamefully no orders have gone to any other operator, being too London specific like the original AEC Routemaster than only got a handful of non London orders (bar BEA airport buses).
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