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Post by busman on Aug 27, 2019 21:43:34 GMT
How about reinstating the Waterloo to Waterloo East curve?! I’m not much of a rail historian...how did that curve work? Did it enable routes to run between Vauxhall/Clapham Junction and Waterloo East/London Bridge? That would open up some amazing connections.
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Post by route53 on Aug 27, 2019 22:05:39 GMT
How about reinstating the Waterloo to Waterloo East curve?! Where was this curve?
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Post by vjaska on Aug 27, 2019 22:11:05 GMT
How about reinstating the Waterloo to Waterloo East curve?! I’m not much of a rail historian...how did that curve work? Did it enable routes to run between Vauxhall/Clapham Junction and Waterloo East/London Bridge? That would open up some amazing connections. Wikipedia suggests it linked Waterloo with Cannon Street but saw poor usage due to the District Line and expansion of the Underground in general and was withdrawn in 1916 as a war time measure but which subsequently became permanent.
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Post by busaholic on Aug 27, 2019 23:21:13 GMT
You'd have to be careful how you announced this service at the London end, up to Lewisham anyway. I think you'd have to call it a Maidstone West service, unless you wanted a lot of irate passengers! Is it a bad service? Or should it have less stops? If you just arrived on the platform at Waterloo East or London Bridge and heard 'the Tonbidge service is approaching' or whatever you might expect it to get there in less than two hours. I used to spend too long commuting from Hither Green, later Blackheath, to Maidstone West back in the day, and it was tedious in the extreme, though never crowded.
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Post by busaholic on Aug 27, 2019 23:36:35 GMT
How about reinstating the Waterloo to Waterloo East curve?! I’m not much of a rail historian...how did that curve work? Did it enable routes to run between Vauxhall/Clapham Junction and Waterloo East/London Bridge? That would open up some amazing connections. I'm only aware that it existed - I think it may have brought trains in from the S.W. to Cannon Street in rush hours, but possibly more extensive than that. I know the book that would tell me, but unfortunately locating it is not an easy matter for me.
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Post by route53 on Aug 28, 2019 0:22:56 GMT
Is it a bad service? Or should it have less stops? If you just arrived on the platform at Waterloo East or London Bridge and heard 'the Tonbidge service is approaching' or whatever you might expect it to get there in less than two hours. I used to spend too long commuting from Hither Green, later Blackheath, to Maidstone West back in the day, and it was tedious in the extreme, though never crowded. Haha ;-D yes I would stress that it’s a Tonbridge service VIA LEWISHAM, WOOLWICH & GRAVESEND. Tbh this would be a CrossRail feeder route for the Maidstone/Tonbridge end of Kent
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Post by joefrombow on Aug 28, 2019 4:15:31 GMT
You can play rail god, what services would you create, stopping patterns etc, which services should be with what TOC For example the Tonbridge to Redhill line should revert back to South Eastern and run to London Bridge again. The Thameslink Rainham service should be semi fast The Croydon yo MKC should be a Brighton to Birmingham semi fast service I would extend Crossrail further into Essex as although Shenfield is a major interchange there really isn't much there , I think Chelmsford or even Colchester would be better and provide much more links from the major Essex "cities" and help create some more revenue for the tfl which needs it at present . I'd also get 4 Class 153 units somehow make them run on Hybrid/Hydrogen or Full electric battery operation and transfer the Romford - Upminster Branch to the District Line with a link to Upminster Depot as I think a brand new Class 710 running the line is a waste of a brand new train , I'd also buy back the Ongar Branch and operate it with one of these "Hybrid" 153 units bring in some more cash .
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Post by snowman on Aug 28, 2019 5:32:18 GMT
I’m not much of a rail historian...how did that curve work? Did it enable routes to run between Vauxhall/Clapham Junction and Waterloo East/London Bridge? That would open up some amazing connections. I'm only aware that it existed - I think it may have brought trains in from the S.W. to Cannon Street in rush hours, but possibly more extensive than that. I know the book that would tell me, but unfortunately locating it is not an easy matter for me. The London and South Western Railway wanted to be able to get its wealthy City commuters to the City. It’s original terminus at Nine Elms was bypassed by a new 4 track line on a Viaduct to Waterloo Bridge Gradually had to add further tracks (eventually 8) and extra stations either side of Waterloo Eventually realised was never going to be able to get the land to extend beyond Waterloo By this time was middle of adjacent buildings with separate stations Supported the Waterloo and City Railway (opened 1898) instead Then cleared more slums and started rebuilding Waterloo (from platform 1 side) Got to about Platform 15 (now 17) and work stopped in First World War By time of rebuild connection to Waterloo East only saw occasional specials so was lifted After the First World War decided not to rebuild the Windsor station, but complete Concourse The rebuild thus ended up with 21 platforms not planned 23 There was a row of buildings left between new platforms and 1885 Windsor station Just prior to Eurostar the central cab area was closed and 2 more platforms opened I think the cab ramp is still there behind Boots The buildings went and 2 more platforms 18 & 19 opened Eurostar station then replaced the Windsor platforms 16-21 Recently these have been converted for use as platforms 20-24 For many years the bridge carrying the tracks was used as a footbridge, and led to a long ramp up to Waterloo East. It was replaced by a High level footbridge about 20 years ago, but bridge across Waterloo Road is still there. If you use the footbridge at Waterloo East and peer carefully can see some remains of where the connection was.
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Post by route53 on Aug 28, 2019 13:35:44 GMT
You can play rail god, what services would you create, stopping patterns etc, which services should be with what TOC For example the Tonbridge to Redhill line should revert back to South Eastern and run to London Bridge again. The Thameslink Rainham service should be semi fast The Croydon yo MKC should be a Brighton to Birmingham semi fast service I would extend Crossrail further into Essex as although Shenfield is a major interchange there really isn't much there , I think Chelmsford or even Colchester would be better and provide much more links from the major Essex "cities" and help create some more revenue for the tfl which needs it at present . I'd also get 4 Class 153 units somehow make them run on Hybrid/Hydrogen or Full electric battery operation and transfer the Romford - Upminster Branch to the District Line with a link to Upminster Depot as I think a brand new Class 710 running the line is a waste of a brand new train , I'd also buy back the Ongar Branch and operate it with one of these "Hybrid" 153 units bring in some more cash . I think the general feeling on this forum is that CrossRail in its current form is a bit of a wasted potential. CrossRail much like Thameslink is today should have been a separate Inter-urban express metro system, even Thameslink is guilty of this: the Sutton Loop, Sevenoaks & Rainham services are treated like Tube lines, when in truth both The Sutton and Sevenoaks lines should be London Overground services which terminate at Blackfriars, and most of you already know my feelings on the Rainham service so I shan’t bore you again ;-) CrossRail should have ran from Oxford and Basingstoke to Colchester, Southend and Medway with a later extension up the WCML to Northampton, and a Loop line to Heathrow, with semi fast stopping patterns calling only at major London stations aside form the Core stations: so that would be Ealing Broadway, Woolwich (which would have a travelator link to the main Woolwich Arsenal station to create a major hub station, Abbey Wood, Stratford and Ilford. Hopefully lessons will be learned by the time CrossRail 2 (or the Charles Line) is built, if ever.
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Post by busaholic on Aug 28, 2019 13:47:43 GMT
I'm only aware that it existed - I think it may have brought trains in from the S.W. to Cannon Street in rush hours, but possibly more extensive than that. I know the book that would tell me, but unfortunately locating it is not an easy matter for me. The London and South Western Railway wanted to be able to get its wealthy City commuters to the City. It’s original terminus at Nine Elms was bypassed by a new 4 track line on a Viaduct to Waterloo Bridge Gradually had to add further tracks (eventually 8) and extra stations either side of Waterloo Eventually realised was never going to be able to get the land to extend beyond Waterloo By this time was middle of adjacent buildings with separate stations Supported the Waterloo and City Railway (opened 1898) instead Then cleared more slums and started rebuilding Waterloo (from platform 1 side) Got to about Platform 15 (now 17) and work stopped in First World War By time of rebuild connection to Waterloo East only saw occasional specials so was lifted After the First World War decided not to rebuild the Windsor station, but complete Concourse The rebuild thus ended up with 21 platforms not planned 23 There was a row of buildings left between new platforms and 1885 Windsor station Just prior to Eurostar the central cab area was closed and 2 more platforms opened I think the cab ramp is still there behind Boots The buildings went and 2 more platforms 18 & 19 opened Eurostar station then replaced the Windsor platforms 16-21 Recently these have been converted for use as platforms 20-24 For many years the bridge carrying the tracks was used as a footbridge, and led to a long ramp up to Waterloo East. It was replaced by a High level footbridge about 20 years ago, but bridge across Waterloo Road is still there. If you use the footbridge at Waterloo East and peer carefully can see some remains of where the connection was. Excellent history lesson - thank you. I'd forgotten (if I ever knew) that the footbridge was where the curve was. I used that a few times over the years. So the curve was never used for regular scheduled services?
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Post by M1104 on Aug 28, 2019 14:23:34 GMT
Extend the Northern Line beyond Morden to Sutton, which was to have been the original terminus for its 1926 extention beyond Clapham Common.
A limited stop bus service between Victoria Station and Thorpe Park
A regular bus service between Wimbledon and Chessington World of Adventures via a fast run along the A3.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 28, 2019 14:24:53 GMT
The London and South Western Railway wanted to be able to get its wealthy City commuters to the City. It’s original terminus at Nine Elms was bypassed by a new 4 track line on a Viaduct to Waterloo Bridge Gradually had to add further tracks (eventually 8) and extra stations either side of Waterloo Eventually realised was never going to be able to get the land to extend beyond Waterloo By this time was middle of adjacent buildings with separate stations Supported the Waterloo and City Railway (opened 1898) instead Then cleared more slums and started rebuilding Waterloo (from platform 1 side) Got to about Platform 15 (now 17) and work stopped in First World War By time of rebuild connection to Waterloo East only saw occasional specials so was lifted After the First World War decided not to rebuild the Windsor station, but complete Concourse The rebuild thus ended up with 21 platforms not planned 23 There was a row of buildings left between new platforms and 1885 Windsor station Just prior to Eurostar the central cab area was closed and 2 more platforms opened I think the cab ramp is still there behind Boots The buildings went and 2 more platforms 18 & 19 opened Eurostar station then replaced the Windsor platforms 16-21 Recently these have been converted for use as platforms 20-24 For many years the bridge carrying the tracks was used as a footbridge, and led to a long ramp up to Waterloo East. It was replaced by a High level footbridge about 20 years ago, but bridge across Waterloo Road is still there. If you use the footbridge at Waterloo East and peer carefully can see some remains of where the connection was. Excellent history lesson - thank you. I'd forgotten (if I ever knew) that the footbridge was where the curve was. I used that a few times over the years. So the curve was never used for regular scheduled services? My post at the top of the page, which has somehow passed everyone by which can happen, says according to Wikipedia, it was used for services to continue to Cannon Street but was withdrawn due to a poor usage as a result of the District Line as well as the expansion of the Underground in general and was closed initially in 1916 due to the war but the closure became permanent. I believe the red bridge over Waterloo Road is where the actual line was - the new footbridge is right above it.
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Post by snowman on Aug 28, 2019 14:29:22 GMT
The London and South Western Railway wanted to be able to get its wealthy City commuters to the City. It’s original terminus at Nine Elms was bypassed by a new 4 track line on a Viaduct to Waterloo Bridge Gradually had to add further tracks (eventually 8) and extra stations either side of Waterloo Eventually realised was never going to be able to get the land to extend beyond Waterloo By this time was middle of adjacent buildings with separate stations Supported the Waterloo and City Railway (opened 1898) instead Then cleared more slums and started rebuilding Waterloo (from platform 1 side) Got to about Platform 15 (now 17) and work stopped in First World War By time of rebuild connection to Waterloo East only saw occasional specials so was lifted After the First World War decided not to rebuild the Windsor station, but complete Concourse The rebuild thus ended up with 21 platforms not planned 23 There was a row of buildings left between new platforms and 1885 Windsor station Just prior to Eurostar the central cab area was closed and 2 more platforms opened I think the cab ramp is still there behind Boots The buildings went and 2 more platforms 18 & 19 opened Eurostar station then replaced the Windsor platforms 16-21 Recently these have been converted for use as platforms 20-24 For many years the bridge carrying the tracks was used as a footbridge, and led to a long ramp up to Waterloo East. It was replaced by a High level footbridge about 20 years ago, but bridge across Waterloo Road is still there. If you use the footbridge at Waterloo East and peer carefully can see some remains of where the connection was. Excellent history lesson - thank you. I'd forgotten (if I ever knew) that the footbridge was where the curve was. I used that a few times over the years. So the curve was never used for regular scheduled services? Here is old map (1888) with the line in situ (Waterloo Junction was later renamed Waterloo East) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Waterloo_station#/media/File:DISTRICT(1888)_p141_-_Waterloo_Station_(plan).jpgThe North Station was the new bit, which survived as the Windsor Line platforms until about 25-30 years ago when Eurostar station was built there, many of the streets have disappeared and few renamed, but you should be able work it out against modern map as Cornwall Street and St Johns church are still there. There were some scheduled services from opening in 1865, but only lasted a couple of years, before being withdrawn. What is now Waterloo East station then opened instead for connections. Used to be a station further East on Blackfriars Road and the entrance can still be seen under the railway bridge opposite Southwark tube, next to Palestra. One of those useless bits of trivia was that when the mileage was formalised, the zero milepost was at the junction, so now trains out of Waterloo start at about 0.1 miles (where bufferstops are) instead of zero miles.
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Post by Dillon95 on Aug 28, 2019 19:32:40 GMT
I'd also extend the Hayes Line to the south with new stations in Keston, Biggin Hill and Westerham. There is a big void of rail links in that area that I'd like to fill.
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Post by wirewiper on Aug 29, 2019 8:29:14 GMT
I'd also extend the Hayes Line to the south with new stations in Keston, Biggin Hill and Westerham. There is a big void of rail links in that area that I'd like to fill. I am not sure the residents of Keston and Westerham would welcome the massive housing developments that would be needed to justify such an extension being built. And I suspect most of this area is designated Green Belt land so has protected status. Anyone choosing to live in the area will be well aware of the lack of a rail service. There was once a proposal for a "Southern Heights Light Railway" from Orpington to Sanderstead which would have looped through Biggin Hill, but it never got off the ground. Also there was once a branch line from Dunton Green to Westerham with stations at Chevening and Brasted. This closed in October 1961. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Heights_Light_Railway
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