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Post by rif153 on Mar 10, 2020 22:36:04 GMT
Reinstate the island platform at Forest Hill and have 2tph Thameslink stoppers from Gatwick call at Forest Hill and New Cross Gate in addition to Norwood Junction to relieve the Overground and Southern stoppers to London Bridge, this would also reinstate an all day service to East Croydon from those two stations. HS1 extended from Ashford to Eastbourne via Hastings replacing the current Southern diesel service by electrifying the line from Ashford to Ore, except for Ashford to Rye peak extras. Extend the Southeastern stoppers to Tunbridge Wells to Hastings. As for the Southeastern/TfL issue, I don't see Medway being an issue as the stoppers transferred to Thameslink, which would leave LO running services as far as Gravesend and Sevenoaks. I really don't think adding more stops to the Thameslink is a good idea - it should be a fast service if you ask me, whereas your plans just seem to pile more pressure onto the Thameslink which is exactly what it doesn't need. I think that Southern trains should be lengthened, perhaps a 10 car railway aspiration similar to that on SWR currently. The Overground trains at 5 cars would be great if they were longer but of course this is problematic especially on the East London Line section where at several stations only 5 cars fit on the platform. I am a huge fan of HS1 to Hastings. I have a friend who grew up in Hastings but hated travelling from there to London so much he moved to London, it definitely doesn't have good rail access to London nor does Eastbourne. The question would be level of service for the intermediate stations on the Marshlink Line or could you potentially keep Southern there as stoppers I wonder?? All this has given me a fleet plan for Southern, I warn you its far from perfect. I would purchase new 10 car walkthrough trains for the entire South London Metro Fleet. Then electrification of the Marshlink Line permits for the 377s released from the metro services to have pantographs attached in the bays on the roofs, so that these trains can provide a stopping service on the Marshlink line alongside faster Southeastern service which would have a limited stopping pattern between Hastings and Ashford, potentially with passing loops if necessary to allow faster Southeastern trains to overtake if that would be needed, my knowledge of the Marshlink line isn't very good so I wouldn't know if this is a necessity or not. Another advantage of an electrified Marshlink line is it will improve South Coast connectivity for instance allowing direct Brighton-Ashford trains where currently one must change at Eastbourne.
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Post by route53 on Mar 11, 2020 10:29:13 GMT
Reinstate the island platform at Forest Hill and have 2tph Thameslink stoppers from Gatwick call at Forest Hill and New Cross Gate in addition to Norwood Junction to relieve the Overground and Southern stoppers to London Bridge, this would also reinstate an all day service to East Croydon from those two stations. HS1 extended from Ashford to Eastbourne via Hastings replacing the current Southern diesel service by electrifying the line from Ashford to Ore, except for Ashford to Rye peak extras. Extend the Southeastern stoppers to Tunbridge Wells to Hastings. As for the Southeastern/TfL issue, I don't see Medway being an issue as the stoppers transferred to Thameslink, which would leave LO running services as far as Gravesend and Sevenoaks. The thing is with SE being transferred to TfL is that the metro stock is also used for its mainline services, and the Medway Thameslink service shouldn’t be all stations, it should be semi fast
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Post by Dillon95 on Mar 11, 2020 15:10:26 GMT
Reinstate the island platform at Forest Hill and have 2tph Thameslink stoppers from Gatwick call at Forest Hill and New Cross Gate in addition to Norwood Junction to relieve the Overground and Southern stoppers to London Bridge, this would also reinstate an all day service to East Croydon from those two stations. HS1 extended from Ashford to Eastbourne via Hastings replacing the current Southern diesel service by electrifying the line from Ashford to Ore, except for Ashford to Rye peak extras. Extend the Southeastern stoppers to Tunbridge Wells to Hastings. As for the Southeastern/TfL issue, I don't see Medway being an issue as the stoppers transferred to Thameslink, which would leave LO running services as far as Gravesend and Sevenoaks. Sevenoaks I can see for the Charing Cross via Grove Park services, but I would have thought Dartford would be a suitable terminating point for the Sidcup, Bexleyheath & Woolwich LO services rather than going as far as Gravesend. Then you can have Southeastern & Thameslink services semi fast to Dartford and then all stations to the Medway towns.
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Post by route53 on Mar 18, 2020 12:35:17 GMT
Reinstate the island platform at Forest Hill and have 2tph Thameslink stoppers from Gatwick call at Forest Hill and New Cross Gate in addition to Norwood Junction to relieve the Overground and Southern stoppers to London Bridge, this would also reinstate an all day service to East Croydon from those two stations. HS1 extended from Ashford to Eastbourne via Hastings replacing the current Southern diesel service by electrifying the line from Ashford to Ore, except for Ashford to Rye peak extras. Extend the Southeastern stoppers to Tunbridge Wells to Hastings. As for the Southeastern/TfL issue, I don't see Medway being an issue as the stoppers transferred to Thameslink, which would leave LO running services as far as Gravesend and Sevenoaks. Sevenoaks I can see for the Charing Cross via Grove Park services, but I would have thought Dartford would be a suitable terminating point for the Sidcup, Bexleyheath & Woolwich LO services rather than going as far as Gravesend. Then you can have Southeastern & Thameslink services semi fast to Dartford and then all stations to the Medway towns. Definitely agree with SELO (South Eastern London Overground) service terminating at Dartford. Also agree with faster trains from Medway, I think it’s ridiculous that two Gravesend starters are semi fast, the CX to Gravesend via Sidcup, fast to New Eltham and the Victoria to Gravesend which has a fast run to Denmark Hill then a semi fast run from Dartford to Gravesend calling only at Greenhithe, yet the Medway route which is further out is the all stations service. Thameslink isn’t needed on the route if I’m honest, but if it had to be routed anyway then it should’ve gone via Sidcup, then restore the semi fasts via Woolwich, only instead of calls at Charlton and Plumstead, I’d have them call at Belevdere and Erith since there’s going to be homes being built there, Charlton would be a peak hour call, but off peak would be non stopped Then if and/or when CrossRail is extended to Ebbsfleet and Gravesend CrossRail can make calls at all intermediate stations to Gravesend while SE trains would be semi fast from Abbey Wood
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Post by ADH45258 on Mar 18, 2020 13:56:40 GMT
Sevenoaks I can see for the Charing Cross via Grove Park services, but I would have thought Dartford would be a suitable terminating point for the Sidcup, Bexleyheath & Woolwich LO services rather than going as far as Gravesend. Then you can have Southeastern & Thameslink services semi fast to Dartford and then all stations to the Medway towns. Definitely agree with SELO (South Eastern London Overground) service terminating at Dartford. Also agree with faster trains from Medway, I think it’s ridiculous that two Gravesend starters are semi fast, the CX to Gravesend via Sidcup, fast to New Eltham and the Victoria to Gravesend which has a fast run to Denmark Hill then a semi fast run from Dartford to Gravesend calling only at Greenhithe, yet the Medway route which is further out is the all stations service. Thameslink isn’t needed on the route if I’m honest, but if it had to be routed anyway then it should’ve gone via Sidcup, then restore the semi fasts via Woolwich, only instead of calls at Charlton and Plumstead, I’d have them call at Belevdere and Erith since there’s going to be homes being built there, Charlton would be a peak hour call, but off peak would be non stopped Then if and/or when CrossRail is extended to Ebbsfleet and Gravesend CrossRail can make calls at all intermediate stations to Gravesend while SE trains would be semi fast from Abbey Wood Or Crossrail could take over all services between Abbey Wood and Dartford, then stopping onwards to Gravesend. An Overground service could operate at all stations from Cannon Street to Abbey Wood via Greenwich. Other Overground services could either operate in a loop via Bexleyheath and Sidcup, or with both terminating at Dartford.
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Post by route53 on Mar 18, 2020 20:09:34 GMT
Definitely agree with SELO (South Eastern London Overground) service terminating at Dartford. Also agree with faster trains from Medway, I think it’s ridiculous that two Gravesend starters are semi fast, the CX to Gravesend via Sidcup, fast to New Eltham and the Victoria to Gravesend which has a fast run to Denmark Hill then a semi fast run from Dartford to Gravesend calling only at Greenhithe, yet the Medway route which is further out is the all stations service. Thameslink isn’t needed on the route if I’m honest, but if it had to be routed anyway then it should’ve gone via Sidcup, then restore the semi fasts via Woolwich, only instead of calls at Charlton and Plumstead, I’d have them call at Belevdere and Erith since there’s going to be homes being built there, Charlton would be a peak hour call, but off peak would be non stopped Then if and/or when CrossRail is extended to Ebbsfleet and Gravesend CrossRail can make calls at all intermediate stations to Gravesend while SE trains would be semi fast from Abbey Wood Or Crossrail could take over all services between Abbey Wood and Dartford, then stopping onwards to Gravesend. An Overground service could operate at all stations from Cannon Street to Abbey Wood via Greenwich. Other Overground services could either operate in a loop via Bexleyheath and Sidcup, or with both terminating at Dartford. Where does this leave Medway services? Im against the idea of curtailing SE trains at Abbey Wood, it’s not big enough for one, plus I don’t see any issue in SE services continuing to Medway semi fast while CrossRail takes over the stoppers to Gravesend
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Post by ADH45258 on Mar 21, 2020 16:46:09 GMT
Or Crossrail could take over all services between Abbey Wood and Dartford, then stopping onwards to Gravesend. An Overground service could operate at all stations from Cannon Street to Abbey Wood via Greenwich. Other Overground services could either operate in a loop via Bexleyheath and Sidcup, or with both terminating at Dartford. Where does this leave Medway services? Im against the idea of curtailing SE trains at Abbey Wood, it’s not big enough for one, plus I don’t see any issue in SE services continuing to Medway semi fast while CrossRail takes over the stoppers to Gravesend I think the links that Crossrail could provide onwards from Abbey Wood could be very useful, but the section from Abbey Wood to Dartford does not necessarily need any additional capacity. Services around Dartford could perhaps be replaced by the following (excluding Medway services via Bromley/Swanley): 6tph Cannon Street to Abbey Wood (Overground) at least 6tph Crossrail via Abbey Wood, Erith and Dartford, likely continuing to Gravesend via Ebbsfleet 6tph Cannon Street circular via Bexleyheath and Sidcup, OR 12tph to Dartford (alternating between Sidcup and Bexleyheath) - also as Overground Only 4tph currently continue east of Gravesend. 2 of these are HS1, leaving only the 2tph Thameslink to Rainham. The Rainham services could perhaps taker a different route between London and Dartford, or at least semi-fast (and these could maybe return to Southeastern service). Another option could be for another 2tph Crossrail to extend from Abbey Wood to Rainham, but as semi fast services, perhaps fast from Abbey Wood to Dartford. Rainham is further out, but no further than Reading, and there had been proposals for Crossrail to serve a Thames Estuary Airport were it to have been built. All other London to Medway services are 3tph via Bromley/Swanley.
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Post by route53 on Mar 25, 2020 13:26:02 GMT
It’s unlikely that CrossRail will reach Medway, Gravesend is as further east it’ll go.
On the other hand the potential Maidstone West via Woolwich service seems interesting, my hope for that service is that it will be semi fast
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Post by Dillon95 on Mar 26, 2020 10:48:16 GMT
It’s unlikely that CrossRail will reach Medway, Gravesend is as further east it’ll go. On the other hand the potential Maidstone West via Woolwich service seems interesting, my hope for that service is that it will be semi fast Medway is as far east from London as Reading is west so it's not impossible. I myself wouldn't have any TFL commuter services go further out than the M25 orbital towns, so Slough and Dartford for the Elizabeth Line. Shenfield is adequete.
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Post by greenboy on Mar 26, 2020 11:05:01 GMT
It’s unlikely that CrossRail will reach Medway, Gravesend is as further east it’ll go. On the other hand the potential Maidstone West via Woolwich service seems interesting, my hope for that service is that it will be semi fast Medway is as far east from London as Reading is west so it's not impossible. I myself wouldn't any TFL commuter services go further out than the M25 orbital towns, so Slough and Dartford for the Elizabeth Line. Shenfield is adequete. I think Crossrail should takeover the current Thameslink service to Rainham and possibly the Strood to Maidstone West service.
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Post by route53 on Mar 26, 2020 14:22:34 GMT
Then you’d be in danger of making the whole of the South East of England into TfL territory.
If CrossRail has not been built like a tube line then yes extended it to Oxford, Medway, Colchester and Southend, but No leave CrossRail as it is.
I’d much rather have the option of either a SouthEastern or a TfL service within London, keep CrossRail as far as Ebbsfleet
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Post by route53 on Mar 26, 2020 14:23:31 GMT
Medway is as far east from London as Reading is west so it's not impossible. I myself wouldn't any TFL commuter services go further out than the M25 orbital towns, so Slough and Dartford for the Elizabeth Line. Shenfield is adequete. I think Crossrail should takeover the current Thameslink service to Rainham and possibly the Strood to Maidstone West service. Maidstone is even further away than Reading is, this shows that CrossRail should never have been operated by TfL, it should be more like how Thameslink was planned out
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Post by route53 on Mar 26, 2020 14:39:13 GMT
As a compromise, maybe extend CrossRail to Medway but Woolwich line services run semi fast out to Medway rather than curtail SE services at Abbey Wood. So you could have this:
CROSSRAIL: 1: Paddington to Gillingham, 2tph, semi fast, not calling at Stone, Swanscombe and Northfleet
2: Heathrow to Gravesend, 2tph
3: Reading to Gravesend 2tph, semi fast, not calling at Stone, Swanscombe and Northfleet, also semi fast west of Paddington,
With peaks starting from Abbey Wood to various western destinations
SOUTH EASTERN: Charing Cross to Maidstone West via Lewisham & Woolwich, fast to Lewisham, then all stations to Abbey Wood then falls only at Dart, Greenhithe, Gravesend, Strood then 1tph all stations to Maidstone, 1tph semi fast calling only at Snodland
LONDON OVERGROUND: Cannon Street to Abbey Wood (if space available otherwise Plumstead) 6tph
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Post by ADH45258 on Mar 26, 2020 15:11:27 GMT
My alternative proposals for the Elizabeth line:
To the west, I would retain services to Reading, and both Heathrow branches. I would add additional branches to the west rather than terminating a number of services at Paddington - this would include taking over the branch to Windsor & Eton Central. I would also extend over the Greenford branch, though with fewer stations, continuing onwards via South Ruislip to High Wycombe - this would replace Chiltern services to Gerrards Cross & High Wycombe, relieving some platform capacity at Marylebone. At Heathrow, Crossrail would also replace Heathrow Express, extending the remaining Paddington-terminating services. These would remain as fast services, though with the option of an additional call at Ealing Broadway.
To the east, I would keep the two core branches, but extend some Abbey Wood services to Ebbsfleet, with the option of continuing some to Gravesend or Rainham. I would also extend some Shenfield services to Southend Victoria, to serve Southend Airport.
The service pattern could be as follows, with varying calling patterns: 3tph Reading to Shenfield 3tph Windsor to Shenfield 3-4tph High Wycombe to Southend Victoria 4tph Heathrow T4 to Abbey Wood 6tph Heathrow T5 to Ebbsfleet
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Post by ADH45258 on Mar 26, 2020 15:24:13 GMT
Then you’d be in danger of making the whole of the South East of England into TfL territory. If CrossRail has not been built like a tube line then yes extended it to Oxford, Medway, Colchester and Southend, but No leave CrossRail as it is. I’d much rather have the option of either a SouthEastern or a TfL service within London, keep CrossRail as far as Ebbsfleet I think the Elizabeth line's terminus at Reading should be used as a guide to how far TFL services should go. I also think TFL ticketing/fares should be extended to National Rail stations at a similar distance. A future extended Crossrail network could also be useful to better connect all of London's airports, so I wouldn't go beyond the distances of Gatwick/Luton/Stansted. The medway towns might be possible for a Crossrail extension, but I think Maidstone might be a bit too far. I think Crossrail 2 could perhaps continue onwards to Woking, Guildford, Hertford or even Stansted Airport. I also think Thameslink should be converted to a third crossrail route, swapping the longer distance services (Brighton, Cambridge, Bedford etc) for more metro-style routes that currently serve London terminal stations. As part of this, existing Thameslink routes could go as far as Luton, Welwyn Garden City, Sevenoaks or Gatwick Airport, but no further.
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