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Post by snowman on Oct 9, 2019 8:59:01 GMT
Had been 4 companies (with rumour of a 5th) looking at Wrightbus Appears one of them Jo Bamford (grandson of JCB founder) now has exclusivity But the problem of the factory being owned by Jeff Wright and thus the rental still to be resolved news.sky.com/story/wrightbus-rescue-hopes-rise-as-bamford-closes-in-on-deal-11831207Remains unclear if he wants all or part of it, and if buses or something else will be built there Other news stories have suggested that suppliers are owed £35m (I would guess companies like Volvo and Cummings etc are amongst these as Wrightbus was more of an assembler than manufacturer of majority of the parts). Seems a big figure but probably equivalent to about 150-200 buses. Against this there must be dozens of almost complete buses where sales proceeds are outstanding.
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Post by snowman on Oct 10, 2019 8:05:38 GMT
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 10, 2019 10:50:01 GMT
Looks like the deal fell through, the issue seems to be regarding some farmland around the site.
The union still seems hopeful however.
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Post by YY13VKP on Oct 10, 2019 13:47:44 GMT
Looks like the deal fell through, the issue seems to be regarding some farmland around the site. The union still seems hopeful however. Have just read that if no deal can be reached today, the company is at risk of imminent liquidation. Just hoping a deal can be reached to save Wrightbus
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Post by YY13VKP on Oct 10, 2019 22:16:45 GMT
According to reports, Wrightbus have until tomorrow to secure a rescue deal otherwise it's game over for them by the looks of it . If Mr Bamford doesn't buy the company, apparently there are three other interested parties in the company, why not open negotiations with them?
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Post by YY13VKP on Oct 11, 2019 9:29:14 GMT
Some good news appears to be coming out from Ballymena this morning! A deal has been completed principle in between Jeff Wright and Jo Bamford for the sale of the company. However this deal is yet to be concluded with the administrators. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50013959
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Post by allentc on Oct 11, 2019 12:29:54 GMT
This is great news! Fingers crossed that they can finalise the deal and save a good percentage of jobs. It is also good news for the market keeping another competitor alive rather than leaving us with just ADL vs Optare - not much of a challenge to ADL there!
The Bamford name will go someway to regaining some of the faith and confidence lost since they are known for selling quality market-leading vehicles worldwide, but he will need to act quickly to salvage Wrightbus' reputation. With the technical/engineering expertise the family have built up and the connections Jo can tap into, getting build quality up to where it should be a problem he can tackle head on.
However, I hope he doesn't go fully down the hydrogen route alienating traditional diesel or diesel-hybrid customers and/or the Volvo chassis partnership. Hydrogen is a tough sell with the market moving - certainly in London - in the direction of fully electric buses although I personally think hydrogen powered vehicles are the better of the two technologies (refill times a fraction of charging times and equivalent or better range than battery powered vehicles). He needs to maintain a broad portfolio of products with a 100% diesel offering for the small town family owned operators who tend to be very conservative when it comes to new technology, hybrids for those operating in larger towns and cities who don't yet have the infrastructure or confidence to operate electric or hydrogen buses, and fully electric and/or hydrogen buses for large trend-setting city operators like those in the London market who need/want to "push the envelope" because of strict emission rules (now and in the near future).
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Post by redbus on Oct 11, 2019 23:12:55 GMT
Firstly I am really happy that it now looks that Wrightbus will be bought out of administration. I felt very sorry for the employees, particularly those in Ballymena where it would be really tough to find another job. Hopefully most if not all the employees will be kept and they can then continue to put food on their families table and have a Christmas to look forward to.
I think lots went wrong over a long period. Wrightbus may have existed for well over 70 years, but I believe they are relative newcomers to the full size buses we know and love, and even later to the double deck bus party. The Gemini 2 was an excellent product and as others have said I believe the G3 and other recent products haven't had the best quality reputation. I am not convinced it was the best decision to go into chassis building, from what I read their chassis' were not class leading, when perhaps they may have been better off seeking an exclusive chassis agreement with Volvo. That would have prevented MCV from using the Volvo chassis, as undoubtedly MCV in London at any rate have taken many orders which one previously might have expected to go to Wrightbus. They have also come up against ADL who keep raising the bar. The bus market is cyclical and now we are in a downturn, bus sales in 2018 were down by some 20% in the UK. ADL have nevertheless expanded in 2018 winning both exports and increasing their UK numbers by 3% against that overall 20% UK decline. That shows how far Wrightbus fell against ADL in terms of sales in their key UK market.
It is reported that they gave millions to the Green Pastures charity. I don't know all the figures but perhaps they could ill-afford to do so.
The question of electric buses against fuel cell buses is an interesting one. Certainly TfL seem to prefer electric buses, but I am not sure why. Now Wrightbus have been saved, let's see how their fuel cell buses will perform.
This neatly brings us to the next question, why is Jo Bamford buying the company, what is his plan and how can he make a success where before it wasn't. He should have much heavy vehicle manufacturing expertise from JCB, so hopefully he can sort out the quality issues, perhaps raise the design and take the fight to his competitors. The interesting part is the company he is using to buy Wrightbus, namely Ryse Hydrogen. Looking at their website part of their mission to help make Britain's bus fleet zero emission by means of hydrogen buses. How will he persuade TfL and others to go for Hydrogen over electric buses remains to be seen, but having a bus manufacturing arm will no doubt help his plans.
His plans for hydrogen are quite interesting. He is investing in electrolysis plants near wind farms to create hydrogen. The wind farms will supply green energy to do this. The hydrogen will then be shipped in tanks to bus depots (on hydrogen vehicles I wonder?). Buses can then be re-filled with hydrogen in five minutes directly from the tanks. This is an interesting proposition, particularly as he is claiming it is cost competitive. Taking the comparison to electric buses there are no expensive batteries, no wearing out or replacement of batteries. Minimal infrastructure at the garage needs to be installed. Moreover re-filling becomes competitive timewise with diesel, unlike the hours needed to recharge batteries. The electric / hydrogen battle may be about to hot up again. Personally I think in the long term electrics will win, but that will be dependant upon huge improvements in battery technology which whilst being worked upon do not yet exist. In the meantime hydrogen may well be a runner.
I do hope Wrightbus will be a success and that other bus companies such as ADL also do well. We need both companies (and Optare and MCV).
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Post by LK65EBO on Oct 12, 2019 13:15:02 GMT
Firstly I am really happy that it now looks that Wrightbus will be bought out of administration. I felt very sorry for the employees, particularly those in Ballymena where it would be really tough to find another job. Hopefully most if not all the employees will be kept and they can then continue to put food on their families table and have a Christmas to look forward to.
I think lots went wrong over a long period. Wrightbus may have existed for well over 70 years, but I believe they are relative newcomers to the full size buses we know and love, and even later to the double deck bus party. The Gemini 2 was an excellent product and as others have said I believe the G3 and other recent products haven't had the best quality reputation. I am not convinced it was the best decision to go into chassis building, from what I read their chassis' were not class leading, when perhaps they may have been better off seeking an exclusive chassis agreement with Volvo. That would have prevented MCV from using the Volvo chassis, as undoubtedly MCV in London at any rate have taken many orders which one previously might have expected to go to Wrightbus. They have also come up against ADL who keep raising the bar. The bus market is cyclical and now we are in a downturn, bus sales in 2018 were down by some 20% in the UK. ADL have nevertheless expanded in 2018 winning both exports and increasing their UK numbers by 3% against that overall 20% UK decline. That shows how far Wrightbus fell against ADL in terms of sales in their key UK market.
It is reported that they gave millions to the Green Pastures charity. I don't know all the figures but perhaps they could ill-afford to do so.
The question of electric buses against fuel cell buses is an interesting one. Certainly TfL seem to prefer electric buses, but I am not sure why. Now Wrightbus have been saved, let's see how their fuel cell buses will perform.
This neatly brings us to the next question, why is Jo Bamford buying the company, what is his plan and how can he make a success where before it wasn't. He should have much heavy vehicle manufacturing expertise from JCB, so hopefully he can sort out the quality issues, perhaps raise the design and take the fight to his competitors. The interesting part is the company he is using to buy Wrightbus, namely Ryse Hydrogen. Looking at their website part of their mission to help make Britain's bus fleet zero emission by means of hydrogen buses. How will he persuade TfL and others to go for Hydrogen over electric buses remains to be seen, but having a bus manufacturing arm will no doubt help his plans.
His plans for hydrogen are quite interesting. He is investing in electrolysis plants near wind farms to create hydrogen. The wind farms will supply green energy to do this. The hydrogen will then be shipped in tanks to bus depots (on hydrogen vehicles I wonder?). Buses can then be re-filled with hydrogen in five minutes directly from the tanks. This is an interesting proposition, particularly as he is claiming it is cost competitive. Taking the comparison to electric buses there are no expensive batteries, no wearing out or replacement of batteries. Minimal infrastructure at the garage needs to be installed. Moreover re-filling becomes competitive timewise with diesel, unlike the hours needed to recharge batteries. The electric / hydrogen battle may be about to hot up again. Personally I think in the long term electrics will win, but that will be dependant upon huge improvements in battery technology which whilst being worked upon do not yet exist. In the meantime hydrogen may well be a runner.
I do hope Wrightbus will be a success and that other bus companies such as ADL also do well. We need both companies (and Optare and MCV).
Good News Wrightbus is coming to take the nation by storm! (James May - Dacia Sandero)
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Post by ServerKing on Oct 13, 2019 14:49:45 GMT
Firstly I am really happy that it now looks that Wrightbus will be bought out of administration....He is investing in electrolysis plants near wind farms to create hydrogen. The wind farms will supply green energy to do this. The hydrogen will then be shipped in tanks to bus depots (on hydrogen vehicles I wonder?). Buses can then be re-filled with hydrogen in five minutes directly from the tanks. This is an interesting proposition, particularly as he is claiming it is cost competitive...
I do hope Wrightbus will be a success and that other bus companies such as ADL also do well. We need both companies (and Optare and MCV).
I think the production of Hydrogen is great through electrolysis but I think TfL are wary of combustible gases being stored in tanks above passengers on the roof. Hydrogen is used to drive a traction motor which converts energy into electricity to drive the wheels. Cutting to the chase and keeping everything electric seems to work for TfL. I know Wrightbus had tied up with Ballard, another company making hydrogen buses (we have Hydrogen powered SB200s on the 444 at present, that were on the RV1) so it's good seeing a firm who is investing in tech to move us on from the combustion engine - though it may be a Beetamax vs VHS... er for our younger audience DVD vs Minidisc and no one wants to be seen backing the wrong tech. ADL have stolen a march on Wrightbus with a tie-up with a leading manufacturer of electric buses, plus make attractive products. Electric buses used to mean ugly, as was the case with the boxy early BYD's (such as the two double decks that are on the 16). Too many dozy names may put people off as well. The Wright StreetAir is an electric bus but no one thinks of air when it comes to electricity. It also looks conveniently like an SB200 / Pulsar. People aren't daft so I expect to see better naming conventions for their products, them dropping the 5.1 Streetlite engine in the StreetDeck (StreetDeck name is okay, Streetlite should go ) and using a 6 cylinder OM936 Citaro engine instead. But having heard of constant reliability problems with the 227 Citaro's, I wonder if Wrightbus would do well to go back to Cummins, like ADL have used without fail? Time will tell how buyers react. Will this collapse make people think it could happen again? Will existing orders be completed (would have been nice to see Go NorthEast's OM936 StreetDeck)?
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 13, 2019 22:35:58 GMT
Firstly I am really happy that it now looks that Wrightbus will be bought out of administration. I felt very sorry for the employees, particularly those in Ballymena where it would be really tough to find another job. Hopefully most if not all the employees will be kept and they can then continue to put food on their families table and have a Christmas to look forward to.
I think lots went wrong over a long period. Wrightbus may have existed for well over 70 years, but I believe they are relative newcomers to the full size buses we know and love, and even later to the double deck bus party. The Gemini 2 was an excellent product and as others have said I believe the G3 and other recent products haven't had the best quality reputation. I am not convinced it was the best decision to go into chassis building, from what I read their chassis' were not class leading, when perhaps they may have been better off seeking an exclusive chassis agreement with Volvo. That would have prevented MCV from using the Volvo chassis, as undoubtedly MCV in London at any rate have taken many orders which one previously might have expected to go to Wrightbus. They have also come up against ADL who keep raising the bar. The bus market is cyclical and now we are in a downturn, bus sales in 2018 were down by some 20% in the UK. ADL have nevertheless expanded in 2018 winning both exports and increasing their UK numbers by 3% against that overall 20% UK decline. That shows how far Wrightbus fell against ADL in terms of sales in their key UK market.
It is reported that they gave millions to the Green Pastures charity. I don't know all the figures but perhaps they could ill-afford to do so.
The question of electric buses against fuel cell buses is an interesting one. Certainly TfL seem to prefer electric buses, but I am not sure why. Now Wrightbus have been saved, let's see how their fuel cell buses will perform.
This neatly brings us to the next question, why is Jo Bamford buying the company, what is his plan and how can he make a success where before it wasn't. He should have much heavy vehicle manufacturing expertise from JCB, so hopefully he can sort out the quality issues, perhaps raise the design and take the fight to his competitors. The interesting part is the company he is using to buy Wrightbus, namely Ryse Hydrogen. Looking at their website part of their mission to help make Britain's bus fleet zero emission by means of hydrogen buses. How will he persuade TfL and others to go for Hydrogen over electric buses remains to be seen, but having a bus manufacturing arm will no doubt help his plans.
His plans for hydrogen are quite interesting. He is investing in electrolysis plants near wind farms to create hydrogen. The wind farms will supply green energy to do this. The hydrogen will then be shipped in tanks to bus depots (on hydrogen vehicles I wonder?). Buses can then be re-filled with hydrogen in five minutes directly from the tanks. This is an interesting proposition, particularly as he is claiming it is cost competitive. Taking the comparison to electric buses there are no expensive batteries, no wearing out or replacement of batteries. Minimal infrastructure at the garage needs to be installed. Moreover re-filling becomes competitive timewise with diesel, unlike the hours needed to recharge batteries. The electric / hydrogen battle may be about to hot up again. Personally I think in the long term electrics will win, but that will be dependant upon huge improvements in battery technology which whilst being worked upon do not yet exist. In the meantime hydrogen may well be a runner.
I do hope Wrightbus will be a success and that other bus companies such as ADL also do well. We need both companies (and Optare and MCV).
I think the problem with hydrogen is the lack of refilling stations. Electric buses are also a major problem on some routes why a few have not been tendered for it down to buses would not be able to do a full days service like diesel. I believe the problem also arises with the 134 and it isn't even as long as some other routes, it is also part of the reason the route was cut back.
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Post by ServerKing on Oct 13, 2019 22:47:12 GMT
Firstly I am really happy that it now looks that Wrightbus will be bought out of administration. I felt very sorry for the employees, particularly those in Ballymena where it would be really tough to find another job.
I think the problem with hydrogen is the lack of refilling stations. Electric buses are also a major problem on some routes why a few have not been tendered for it down to buses would not be able to do a full days service like diesel. I believe the problem also arises with the 134 and it isn't even as long as some other routes, it is also part of the reason the route was cut back.
I think the utopia of a mostly electric existence has been shown to be just a dream, as you say, not the infrastructure or reliability yet. I was surprised at Metroline buying so many of the Optare Metrodeckers, it seems there's an issue with a lot of them. I wonder how batteries will fare if we have a harsh winter, as the cold can damage a lot of them. How to dispose of all the batteries may not be as eco friendly, and I never took into account how many buses are going to need subbing if they cannot last a full day due to range constraints. Explains the allowance of more straight diesel orders of late.
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Post by redbus on Oct 13, 2019 23:14:29 GMT
I think the problem with hydrogen is the lack of refilling stations. Electric buses are also a major problem on some routes why a few have not been tendered for it down to buses would not be able to do a full days service like diesel. I believe the problem also arises with the 134 and it isn't even as long as some other routes, it is also part of the reason the route was cut back.
I think the utopia of a mostly electric existence has been shown to be just a dream, as you say, not the infrastructure or reliability yet. I was surprised at Metroline buying so many of the Optare Metrodeckers, it seems there's an issue with a lot of them. I wonder how batteries will fare if we have a harsh winter, as the cold can damage a lot of them. How to dispose of all the batteries may not be as eco friendly, and I never took into account how many buses are going to need subbing if they cannot last a full day due to range constraints. Explains the allowance of more straight diesel orders of late. You are right, but I would argue that fuel cell buses have none of these issues. In terms of infrastructure, the way Ryse hydrogen are going, all that is needed is a place to keep the hydrogen tank at the garage which can re-fuel the bus directly. When the tank is empty it is replaced with a full one. No batteries that wear, or won't last a full day, or only last five years before replacement and no battery disposal problems. The more I think about it, the more I like fuel cell buses - there must surely be a catch somewhere!
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Post by vjaska on Oct 14, 2019 1:33:49 GMT
I think the problem with hydrogen is the lack of refilling stations. Electric buses are also a major problem on some routes why a few have not been tendered for it down to buses would not be able to do a full days service like diesel. I believe the problem also arises with the 134 and it isn't even as long as some other routes, it is also part of the reason the route was cut back.
I think the utopia of a mostly electric existence has been shown to be just a dream, as you say, not the infrastructure or reliability yet. I was surprised at Metroline buying so many of the Optare Metrodeckers, it seems there's an issue with a lot of them. I wonder how batteries will fare if we have a harsh winter, as the cold can damage a lot of them. How to dispose of all the batteries may not be as eco friendly, and I never took into account how many buses are going to need subbing if they cannot last a full day due to range constraints. Explains the allowance of more straight diesel orders of late. The only diesel order we have had for a route in 2020 was for the K1 and most likely was down to a lack of electric buses in that short length. What's the issue with the OME's - AFAIK, it has the same range as a BDE?
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Post by ServerKing on Oct 14, 2019 5:34:57 GMT
I think the utopia of a mostly electric existence has been shown to be just a dream, as you say, not the infrastructure or reliability yet. I was surprised at Metroline buying so many of the Optare Metrodeckers, it seems there's an issue with a lot of them. I wonder how batteries will fare if we have a harsh winter, as the cold can damage a lot of them. How to dispose of all the batteries may not be as eco friendly, and I never took into account how many buses are going to need subbing if they cannot last a full day due to range constraints. Explains the allowance of more straight diesel orders of late. You are right, but I would argue that fuel cell buses have none of these issues. In terms of infrastructure, the way Ryse hydrogen are going, all that is needed is a place to keep the hydrogen tank at the garage which can re-fuel the bus directly. When the tank is empty it is replaced with a full one. No batteries that wear, or won't last a full day, or only last five years before replacement and no battery disposal problems. The more I think about it, the more I like fuel cell buses - there must surely be a catch somewhere! Greedy oil firms won't be pleased if it's cleaner, cheaper, as easy and quick to fuel as diesel... it's the highly combustible nature of hydrogen that may get TfL jumpy, if some plonker drives into the back of the bus or if tanks on roof and a freak event damages the tanks and causes an explosion ie falling tree in high winds, the scandal will destroy them... something has to be done to move away from diesel but in many parts of the UK, operators are not ordering hybrids and are actually returning to straight diesel as it's proven to be just as clean with Euro6 and NOx reduction like Adblue. Many cite degraded batteries / reliability of the hybrid models as an issue.
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