|
Post by route53 on Nov 16, 2019 16:44:14 GMT
How is everyone finding the expanded Thameslink services? Has it changed your commute or travel for better or for worse? How would you run Thameslink if given a magic wand.
I know that this thread is a bit similar to my other Fantasy Rail thread but we discussed Thameslink quite a bit on there, so I thought I’d make a new thread
|
|
|
Post by Dillon95 on Nov 17, 2019 18:10:27 GMT
I don't like how they can't seem to make up their mind if it's a London metro commuter stopping service or a long distance service from London to Brighton, Bedford, Medway towns etc.
What I'd do is separate the metro services and just make them part of London Overground. Southbound services would be to Sutton both via Wimbledon & via Mitcham Junction, Orpington, Sevenoaks via Swanley and Dartford (or possibly even Gravesend) via Woolwich Arsenal. Northbound services would be to St Albans City and Welwyn Garden City.
Then further distance fast services would run north to Bedford, Peterborough and Cambridge. I'd change it around a bit to the south and south east though. I'd stick with the Brighton services as they are. Horsham services I'd extend further on to Portsmouth Harbour. Rainham services would be extended on to Ramsgate. After London Bridge the Ramsgate services would have the calling pattern of Abbey Wood, Dartford, Gravesend, ONE of the Medway towns (I don't want it being too slow), Sittingbourne, Faversham, Herne Bay, Margate & Ramsgate. I'd also introduce Dover Priory services, which after Blackfriars would have the calling pattern of Bromley South, Swanley, West Malling, Maidstone East, Ashford International, Folkestone Central and Dover Priory.
Of course this is just fantasy, me having a bit of fun.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2019 20:20:56 GMT
How is everyone finding the expanded Thameslink services? Has it changed your commute or travel for better or for worse? How would you run Thameslink if given a magic wand. I know that this thread is a bit similar to my other Fantasy Rail thread but we discussed Thameslink quite a bit on there, so I thought I’d make a new thread I use Thameslink between Sutton and Wimbledon Mon-Fri and I find it very reliable. On the occasion of problems staff are normally very quick to assist. My only thing would be a couple of additional services towards Wimbledon after 7 but having only one platform at Wimbledon constraints services here. Maybe if crossrail 2 gets built platform 10 at Wimbledon will get converted back to NR.
|
|
|
Post by 700101 on Nov 17, 2019 21:43:20 GMT
The major timetable change had a rocky start but has settled down since, from a insider point of view the changes I would make;
Have the Wimbledon Loop services run to/from Blackfriars only to remove conflicting movement between Elephant & Blackfriars (which was the original plan) and have
4tph - Blackfriars - Sutton via Wimbledon 4tph - Blackfriars - Sutton via Mitcham Junction
Which could in turn allow east transfer over to TFL with new stock to allow more changes to TL services
Via the Core
4tph - St Albans - Sevenoaks via Catford & Swanley 2pth - Kentish Town - Sevenoaks via London Bridge & Hither Green (Extended to Luton at peak hours)
The proposed Welwyn Garden City peak services could run to Dartford via Sidcup if the above Wimbledon Loop services is caped At Blackfriars
All other TL services to remain the same
On a different note the May 2020 timetable change will allow the Welwyn Garden City - Sevenoaks (peak services) to run. The proposed Cambridge - Maidstone / Ashford services remain a challenge due to stabling requirements at Ashford
|
|
|
Post by 700101 on Nov 17, 2019 21:46:54 GMT
How is everyone finding the expanded Thameslink services? Has it changed your commute or travel for better or for worse? How would you run Thameslink if given a magic wand. I know that this thread is a bit similar to my other Fantasy Rail thread but we discussed Thameslink quite a bit on there, so I thought I’d make a new thread I use Thameslink between Sutton and Wimbledon Mon-Fri and I find it very reliable. On the occasion of problems staff are normally very quick to assist. My only thing would be a couple of additional services towards Wimbledon after 7 but having only one platform at Wimbledon constraints services here. Maybe if crossrail 2 gets built platform 10 at Wimbledon will get converted back to NR. The proposed Blackfriars - London Bridge via Wimbledon & Mitcham should start once the Welwyn Garden City - Sevenoaks peak services start running but in my opinion should have 4tph all day via both Wimbledon & Mitcham
|
|
|
Post by ADH45258 on Nov 17, 2019 22:04:38 GMT
The major timetable change had a rocky start but has settled down since, from a insider point of view the changes I would make; Have the Wimbledon Loop services run to/from Blackfriars only to remove conflicting movement between Elephant & Blackfriars (which was the original plan) and have 4tph - Blackfriars - Sutton via Wimbledon 4tph - Blackfriars - Sutton via Mitcham Junction Which could in turn allow east transfer over to TFL with new stock to allow more changes to TL services Via the Core 4tph - St Albans - Sevenoaks via Catford & Swanley 2pth - Kentish Town - Sevenoaks via London Bridge & Hither Green (Extended to Luton at peak hours) The proposed Welwyn Garden City peak services could run to Dartford via Sidcup if the above Wimbledon Loop services is caped At Blackfriars All other TL services to remain the same On a different note the May 2020 timetable change will allow the Welwyn Garden City - Sevenoaks (peak services) to run. The proposed Cambridge - Maidstone / Ashford services remain a challenge due to stabbing requirements at Ashford I agree that the Sutton services should terminate at Blackfriars as per the original plans. However, I think that the ThamesLink brand should only apply to services running through the StPancras-Blackfriars core. Blackfriars-Sutton loop services could be better placed under the Southern brand (still within the GTR franchise), or could even transfer to London Overground.
|
|
|
Post by kenmet on Nov 19, 2019 7:45:50 GMT
It's great now it's running reliably, getting on a train at East Croydon or London Bridge all the way to Cambridge or Peterborough without having to use the tube or even for more local journeys to Finsbury Park.
I agree with suggestions of the Sutton loop being segregated and terminating at Blackfriars and maybe becoming part of London Overground. I don't think the track capacity exists to increase services though. The Herne Hill route can still be used as a diversionary route for Thameslink.
Presumably the weekend service on the Catford loop line will be increased to 4tph at some point, 2tph is inadequate.
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Nov 19, 2019 16:15:23 GMT
The major timetable change had a rocky start but has settled down since, from a insider point of view the changes I would make; Have the Wimbledon Loop services run to/from Blackfriars only to remove conflicting movement between Elephant & Blackfriars (which was the original plan) and have 4tph - Blackfriars - Sutton via Wimbledon 4tph - Blackfriars - Sutton via Mitcham Junction Which could in turn allow east transfer over to TFL with new stock to allow more changes to TL services Via the Core 4tph - St Albans - Sevenoaks via Catford & Swanley 2pth - Kentish Town - Sevenoaks via London Bridge & Hither Green (Extended to Luton at peak hours) The proposed Welwyn Garden City peak services could run to Dartford via Sidcup if the above Wimbledon Loop services is caped At Blackfriars All other TL services to remain the same On a different note the May 2020 timetable change will allow the Welwyn Garden City - Sevenoaks (peak services) to run. The proposed Cambridge - Maidstone / Ashford services remain a challenge due to stabbing requirements at Ashford “Stabbing requirements”!!!
|
|
|
Post by route53 on Nov 23, 2019 13:39:17 GMT
I don't like how they can't seem to make up their mind if it's a London metro commuter stopping service or a long distance service from London to Brighton, Bedford, Medway towns etc. What I'd do is separate the metro services and just make them part of London Overground. Southbound services would be to Sutton both via Wimbledon & via Mitcham Junction, Orpington, Sevenoaks via Swanley and Dartford (or possibly even Gravesend) via Woolwich Arsenal. Northbound services would be to St Albans City and Welwyn Garden City. Then further distance fast services would run north to Bedford, Peterborough and Cambridge. I'd change it around a bit to the south and south east though. I'd stick with the Brighton services as they are. Horsham services I'd extend further on to Portsmouth Harbour. Rainham services would be extended on to Ramsgate. After London Bridge the Ramsgate services would have the calling pattern of Abbey Wood, Dartford, Gravesend, ONE of the Medway towns (I don't want it being too slow), Sittingbourne, Faversham, Herne Bay, Margate & Ramsgate. I'd also introduce Dover Priory services, which after Blackfriars would have the calling pattern of Bromley South, Swanley, West Malling, Maidstone East, Ashford International, Folkestone Central and Dover Priory. Of course this is just fantasy, me having a bit of fun. I agree with your point on Thameslink making up its mind on what it’s should be and I think it should more of inter-regional and less London metro service. The Sutton Loop and Sevenoaks lines would be siphoned off to London Overground and curtailed at Blackfriars. The Rainham service would be sped up, call at fewer stations and ran via Blackheath rather than Greenwich, and extended to Canterbury East, the Rainham service is flawed in so many ways and needs reworking. The proposed Ashford service would run via Bromley South, Beckenham Junction, Penge East and Herne Hill. I’d run the Littlehampton service via Herne Hill, Tulse Hill, Sutton, Epsom, Dorking, then all Stations to Littlehampton
|
|
|
Post by rif153 on Nov 23, 2019 17:02:42 GMT
I don't like how they can't seem to make up their mind if it's a London metro commuter stopping service or a long distance service from London to Brighton, Bedford, Medway towns etc. What I'd do is separate the metro services and just make them part of London Overground. Southbound services would be to Sutton both via Wimbledon & via Mitcham Junction, Orpington, Sevenoaks via Swanley and Dartford (or possibly even Gravesend) via Woolwich Arsenal. Northbound services would be to St Albans City and Welwyn Garden City. Then further distance fast services would run north to Bedford, Peterborough and Cambridge. I'd change it around a bit to the south and south east though. I'd stick with the Brighton services as they are. Horsham services I'd extend further on to Portsmouth Harbour. Rainham services would be extended on to Ramsgate. After London Bridge the Ramsgate services would have the calling pattern of Abbey Wood, Dartford, Gravesend, ONE of the Medway towns (I don't want it being too slow), Sittingbourne, Faversham, Herne Bay, Margate & Ramsgate. I'd also introduce Dover Priory services, which after Blackfriars would have the calling pattern of Bromley South, Swanley, West Malling, Maidstone East, Ashford International, Folkestone Central and Dover Priory. Of course this is just fantasy, me having a bit of fun. I agree with your point on Thameslink making up its mind on what it’s should be and I think it should more of inter-regional and less London metro service. The Sutton Loop and Sevenoaks lines would be siphoned off to London Overground and curtailed at Blackfriars. The Rainham service would be sped up, call at fewer stations and ran via Blackheath rather than Greenwich, and extended to Canterbury East, the Rainham service is flawed in so many ways and needs reworking. The proposed Ashford service would run via Bromley South, Beckenham Junction, Penge East and Herne Hill. I’d run the Littlehampton service via Herne Hill, Tulse Hill, Sutton, Epsom, Dorking, then all Stations to Littlehampton The issue with truncating the Sutton and Sevenoaks services at Blackfriars is that its a double edged sword. Undoubtedly it would help to improve reliability as any small delay means that the core section goes tits up with a backlog of trains building up. However, every train along the Thameslink core is rammed during the peaks so I'm not sure if losing 4tph would help the core and it would instead just increase overcrowding, especially for those heading towards Elephant. There is definitely scope to try to simplfiy the Thameslink network a little though as the service can be a mess at times.
|
|
|
Post by kenmet on Nov 23, 2019 19:35:40 GMT
I don't like how they can't seem to make up their mind if it's a London metro commuter stopping service or a long distance service from London to Brighton, Bedford, Medway towns etc. What I'd do is separate the metro services and just make them part of London Overground. Southbound services would be to Sutton both via Wimbledon & via Mitcham Junction, Orpington, Sevenoaks via Swanley and Dartford (or possibly even Gravesend) via Woolwich Arsenal. Northbound services would be to St Albans City and Welwyn Garden City. Then further distance fast services would run north to Bedford, Peterborough and Cambridge. I'd change it around a bit to the south and south east though. I'd stick with the Brighton services as they are. Horsham services I'd extend further on to Portsmouth Harbour. Rainham services would be extended on to Ramsgate. After London Bridge the Ramsgate services would have the calling pattern of Abbey Wood, Dartford, Gravesend, ONE of the Medway towns (I don't want it being too slow), Sittingbourne, Faversham, Herne Bay, Margate & Ramsgate. I'd also introduce Dover Priory services, which after Blackfriars would have the calling pattern of Bromley South, Swanley, West Malling, Maidstone East, Ashford International, Folkestone Central and Dover Priory. Of course this is just fantasy, me having a bit of fun. I agree with your point on Thameslink making up its mind on what it’s should be and I think it should more of inter-regional and less London metro service. The Sutton Loop and Sevenoaks lines would be siphoned off to London Overground and curtailed at Blackfriars. The Rainham service would be sped up, call at fewer stations and ran via Blackheath rather than Greenwich, and extended to Canterbury East, the Rainham service is flawed in so many ways and needs reworking. The proposed Ashford service would run via Bromley South, Beckenham Junction, Penge East and Herne Hill. I’d run the Littlehampton service via Herne Hill, Tulse Hill, Sutton, Epsom, Dorking, then all Stations to Littlehampton Why can't Thameslink provide both a inter regional and London metro service? There may be a case for segregating the Sutton loop but certainly not the Sevenoaks service which is effectively a cross London tube line. The Rainham service is certainly not ideal but with so many conflicting requirements it's probably the best that can be achieved. In the long term I think Crossrail should provide the Rainham service. As I understand it the Ashford service will run fast from London Bridge to Swanley via Chislehurst? I think the Littlehampton service will just replace the existing Victoria service via East Croydon?
|
|
|
Post by 700101 on Nov 23, 2019 19:39:25 GMT
The major timetable change had a rocky start but has settled down since, from a insider point of view the changes I would make; Have the Wimbledon Loop services run to/from Blackfriars only to remove conflicting movement between Elephant & Blackfriars (which was the original plan) and have 4tph - Blackfriars - Sutton via Wimbledon 4tph - Blackfriars - Sutton via Mitcham Junction Which could in turn allow east transfer over to TFL with new stock to allow more changes to TL services Via the Core 4tph - St Albans - Sevenoaks via Catford & Swanley 2pth - Kentish Town - Sevenoaks via London Bridge & Hither Green (Extended to Luton at peak hours) The proposed Welwyn Garden City peak services could run to Dartford via Sidcup if the above Wimbledon Loop services is caped At Blackfriars All other TL services to remain the same On a different note the May 2020 timetable change will allow the Welwyn Garden City - Sevenoaks (peak services) to run. The proposed Cambridge - Maidstone / Ashford services remain a challenge due to stabbing requirements at Ashford “Stabbing requirements”!!! Lol auto correction messed up 🤦🏽♂️, was meant to say Stabling requirements
|
|
|
Post by 700101 on Nov 23, 2019 19:52:16 GMT
I don't like how they can't seem to make up their mind if it's a London metro commuter stopping service or a long distance service from London to Brighton, Bedford, Medway towns etc. What I'd do is separate the metro services and just make them part of London Overground. Southbound services would be to Sutton both via Wimbledon & via Mitcham Junction, Orpington, Sevenoaks via Swanley and Dartford (or possibly even Gravesend) via Woolwich Arsenal. Northbound services would be to St Albans City and Welwyn Garden City. Then further distance fast services would run north to Bedford, Peterborough and Cambridge. I'd change it around a bit to the south and south east though. I'd stick with the Brighton services as they are. Horsham services I'd extend further on to Portsmouth Harbour. Rainham services would be extended on to Ramsgate. After London Bridge the Ramsgate services would have the calling pattern of Abbey Wood, Dartford, Gravesend, ONE of the Medway towns (I don't want it being too slow), Sittingbourne, Faversham, Herne Bay, Margate & Ramsgate. I'd also introduce Dover Priory services, which after Blackfriars would have the calling pattern of Bromley South, Swanley, West Malling, Maidstone East, Ashford International, Folkestone Central and Dover Priory. Of course this is just fantasy, me having a bit of fun. I agree with your point on Thameslink making up its mind on what it’s should be and I think it should more of inter-regional and less London metro service. The Sutton Loop and Sevenoaks lines would be siphoned off to London Overground and curtailed at Blackfriars. The Rainham service would be sped up, call at fewer stations and ran via Blackheath rather than Greenwich, and extended to Canterbury East, the Rainham service is flawed in so many ways and needs reworking. The proposed Ashford service would run via Bromley South, Beckenham Junction, Penge East and Herne Hill. I’d run the Littlehampton service via Herne Hill, Tulse Hill, Sutton, Epsom, Dorking, then all Stations to Littlehampton For services via Elephant the Sutton services should be caped so they run on the Up/Down Holborn Slows and the Sevenoaks / Orpington services to run directly on the Up/Down Holborn Fasts through the core to avoid conflicting movements between Loughborough Junction & Blackfriars areas which was originally planned but a certain MP along the Sutton routes objected to this idea which would of resulted in 4tph on each Sutton route if caped and Blackfriars, now there services are heaving during peak hours as a result and there starting to moan for a improved service The Rainham services should definitely be speed up south of the river either diverting via Lewisham or run via Sidcup as previously planned I agree with the Maidstone / Ashford services should run via Bromley South stopping at Elephant en route which was again the original plan The Littlehampton peak services was a direct replacement for the peak Southern London Bridge services and will make a lot of passengers along that route unhappy if diverted via a different route Also another improvement which ought to be made should be the Bedford - Gatwick services stop at New Cross Gate for interchange for ELL services which was previously provided by southern previous Horsham services and the overnight Friday night Bedford - Three Bridges services to run via and both stop at London Bridge & New Cross Gate for Night Tube / Overground with the rest of the week there services to continue running via Elephant & Selhurst / Crystal Palace for route knowledge purposes
|
|
|
Post by route53 on Nov 24, 2019 18:16:52 GMT
New Cross Gate needs to be added to the Thameslink network, for the simple fact that it’s a major interchange station, that means Sydenham metro passengers can change there for Thameslink rather than London Bridge, Also for connections to Gatwick Airport from the ELL.
I think running the Ashford service via Bromley would be operationally better as it involves less conflicting moves (Chislehurst junction springs to mind as a potential delay)
Thameslink works better as a inter-regional service, a larger scale Crossrail rather than a glorified tube line, I can see the difficulty in terminating Sevenoaks services at Blackfriars, but don’t the majority of them terminate there anyway for the moment? Sevenoaks is similar to the Watford-Euston line and seems to fit the LO branding rather than a Thameslink one, but that’s just me
|
|
|
Post by kenmet on Nov 24, 2019 18:33:52 GMT
New Cross Gate needs to be added to the Thameslink network, for the simple fact that it’s a major interchange station, that means Sydenham metro passengers can change there for Thameslink rather than London Bridge, Also for connections to Gatwick Airport from the ELL. I think running the Ashford service via Bromley would be operationally better as it involves less conflicting moves (Chislehurst junction springs to mind as a potential delay) Thameslink works better as a inter-regional service, a larger scale Crossrail rather than a glorified tube line, I can see the difficulty in terminating Sevenoaks services at Blackfriars, but don’t the majority of them terminate there anyway for the moment? Sevenoaks is similar to the Watford-Euston line and seems to fit the LO branding rather than a Thameslink one, but that’s just me I doubt very much if there would be any significant delays at Chislehurst Junction and if the Ashford service went via Bromley South it wouldn't serve London Bridge. There is also very little spare capacity via Penge East or Catford, fast trains are often reduced to a crawl as it is getting stuck behind stopping services.
|
|