rml1969
Conductor
Adolescent & Youth Worker - OWR Driver
Posts: 69
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Post by rml1969 on Nov 18, 2019 4:38:24 GMT
All buses will be fitted with Intelligent Speed Assistance by 2022, which will help to regulate the speeds of all traffic on bus routes. (Quoted from Mayor's London Assembly page).
1 - With no doubt this will prorgue many passengers commuting on/with buses.
2 - Increased journey times and additional occurring software/setting circumstances.
3 - Staff/Passenger irritation/annoyance.
Personal view: The upcoming launch of the tool will result vital obstacles within the bus network. As a regular bus passenger, this tool does beyond doubt create issues to my commute mostly through quieter hours.
Note: My nearby local route 197 has the tool enabled/installed on it's vehicles.
I would be very grateful and delighted to hear your views also speculation of the future of the tool.
Regards
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Post by ServerKing on Nov 18, 2019 7:09:52 GMT
It's more the frequency and quality of service that will pee people off, not the speed of the buses. It's still slightly better than walking, especially now with USB charging which may add up to 3-4% charge to your phone during your journey
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 18, 2019 11:29:11 GMT
ISA itself is not a problem, it's something that shouldn't actually have a habit of causing any issues unless whatever speed the bus is travelling at is breaking the speed limit.
The problem starts when you have these utterly useless 20mph zones which I feel are more dangerous than safe. Car drivers very rarely abide by them, and when a bus with ISA is now going to be capped on this section it's just going to result in angry cars behind then performing dangerous moves to overtake.
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Post by Pilot on Nov 18, 2019 11:54:34 GMT
I personally don't have problems with this, but I expect a lot of inconsistency in gear changing and so on as the bus is trying to stay at 20mph (but probably won't be a problem as we go into hybrids and electrics).
As far as 20mph roads concerned, as user above said it is more dangerous he's right, because it promotes more risky overtaking by other road users which creates accidents because majority car drivers will not drive 20mph behind a bus.
And finally as far as passengers using buses less, I think it's non-sense...Already more than half of buses in my area are mostly 20mph and while few drivers may speed during quieter times, (like 25-30 in a 20) it's literally the minority of drivers that do it anyways so it's not gonna be major difference.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 18, 2019 11:59:13 GMT
All buses will be fitted with Intelligent Speed Assistance by 2022, which will help to regulate the speeds of all traffic on bus routes. (Quoted from Mayor's London Assembly page). 1 - With no doubt this will prorgue many passengers commuting on/with buses. 2 - Increased journey times and additional occurring software/setting circumstances. 3 - Staff/Passenger irritation/annoyance. Personal view: The upcoming launch of the tool will result vital obstacles within the bus network. As a regular bus passenger, this tool does beyond doubt create issues to my commute mostly through quieter hours. Note: My nearby local route 197 has the tool enabled/installed on it's vehicles. I would be very grateful and delighted to hear your views also speculation of the future of the tool. Regards ISA is far from perfect, it has had issues with some buses losing reception (as it is GPS based) then being allowed to breach speed limit. I am also more concerned over the adaptive braking. For instance it would slam on the brakes harder than a driver would and potentially end up with injuries on board the bus. Also if it brakes then then driver also slams on, you then get a heavier than normal stop, i.e. more people on the floor
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Post by busaholic on Nov 18, 2019 12:06:50 GMT
All buses will be fitted with Intelligent Speed Assistance by 2022, which will help to regulate the speeds of all traffic on bus routes. (Quoted from Mayor's London Assembly page). 1 - With no doubt this will prorgue many passengers commuting on/with buses. 2 - Increased journey times and additional occurring software/setting circumstances. 3 - Staff/Passenger irritation/annoyance. Personal view: The upcoming launch of the tool will result vital obstacles within the bus network. As a regular bus passenger, this tool does beyond doubt create issues to my commute mostly through quieter hours. Note: My nearby local route 197 has the tool enabled/installed on it's vehicles. I would be very grateful and delighted to hear your views also speculation of the future of the tool. Regards ISA is far from perfect, it has had issues with some buses losing reception (as it is GPS based) then being allowed to breach speed limit. I am also more concerned over the adaptive braking. For instance it would slam on the brakes harder than a driver would and potentially end up with injuries on board the bus. Also if it brakes then then driver also slams on, you then get a heavier than normal stop, i.e. more people on the floor
That is extremely concerning. As an MS sufferer, my balance is dodgy at the best of times and every journey would be fraught with anxiety.
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Post by Lukeo on Nov 18, 2019 12:44:41 GMT
Personally I’ve never understood what seems to be outrage on this forum in the past regarding ISA. Buses shouldn’t be exceeding the legal speed limit on any road anyway, and so if they aren’t then what difference will it make? If it begun limiting buses to 20mph on 30mph roads, then yeah that’s a problem, but if it works consistently and reliably then I can’t see any issue myself.
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Post by snowman on Nov 18, 2019 13:01:43 GMT
Personally I’ve never understood what seems to be outrage on this forum in the past regarding ISA. Buses shouldn’t be exceeding the legal speed limit on any road anyway, and so if they aren’t then what difference will it make? If it begun limiting buses to 20mph on 30mph roads, then yeah that’s a problem, but if it works consistently and reliably then I can’t see any issue myself. I think you will find that the outrage is not ISA per se, but setting stupidly low speed limits for long stretches that ISA then follows Unfortunately some local authorities in London have taken the view that changes to speed limits are too confusing for some motorists, so if a road is currently mix of 20, 30, 40 mph (because it is different widths, different levels of built up etc) why not make it all the lower 20mph. So have a system that sticks to a round number speed limit, regardless of road / weather conditions and traffic levels. Effectively you are attaching a system to dumbed down, simplified data, not an intelligent solution. As proposed ISA will treat a deserted dry wide 4 lane road the same as a snowy narrow hazardous road, if that is what a digital map compiled remotely (without anyone visiting the road) says. So effectively get binary speed, (stop or 20mph), nothing controlled in between. Yes, the driver can go lower speed, but how they apply that is not consistent between individual drivers. And if no consistency, can't maintain headways except by delaying subsequent buses and their passengers. Thats why it is lambasted.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 18, 2019 13:22:58 GMT
Personally I’ve never understood what seems to be outrage on this forum in the past regarding ISA. Buses shouldn’t be exceeding the legal speed limit on any road anyway, and so if they aren’t then what difference will it make? If it begun limiting buses to 20mph on 30mph roads, then yeah that’s a problem, but if it works consistently and reliably then I can’t see any issue myself. Except it doesn't work consistently as someone elsewhere has already had experience of this technology on a dustcart and it failed whilst they were driving it. Not only that but capitalomnibus already mentioned above it's GPS based which isn't reliable in itself. The problem people have is more to do with stupid borough wide limits that have not made roads safer at all and will thus subject buses to running at slow speeds constantly leading to increased running times and subsequently, increased costs for operators. My local main road became 20mph a couple of years ago and yet still sees almost daily instances of cars speeding and since the introduction, has seen a fatality as well - the cost of implementing such a scheme (both borough wide speed limits & ISA) could of went to improving public services or improving bus routes so you excuse my annoyance at this whole scheme.
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Post by TP1 on Nov 18, 2019 13:43:14 GMT
Personally I’ve never understood what seems to be outrage on this forum in the past regarding ISA. Buses shouldn’t be exceeding the legal speed limit on any road anyway, and so if they aren’t then what difference will it make? If it begun limiting buses to 20mph on 30mph roads, then yeah that’s a problem, but if it works consistently and reliably then I can’t see any issue myself. Except it doesn't work consistently as someone elsewhere has already had experience of this technology on a dustcart and it failed whilst they were driving it. Not only that but capitalomnibus already mentioned above it's GPS based which isn't reliable in itself. The problem people have is more to do with stupid borough wide limits that have not made roads safer at all and will thus subject buses to running at slow speeds constantly leading to increased running times and subsequently, increased costs for operators. My local main road became 20mph a couple of years ago and yet still sees almost daily instances of cars speeding and since the introduction, has seen a fatality as well - the cost of implementing such a scheme (both borough wide speed limits & ISA) could of went to improving public services or improving bus routes so you excuse my annoyance at this whole scheme. Your point about GPS is true. My issues with ISA while at NP mainly came from bus stations. For instance, the ISA will set to 10mph in Brent Cross Bus Station, 9 times out of 10, when you pull back into traffic, the bus will take several seconds to change to 30. Same can be said for merging with the A406; the ISA wouldn't update from 30 to 50 until you're actually on the A406. Aside from that, I didn't mind it at all, if anything it made my life that bit easier. Especially with things like a faulty speedometer
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rml1969
Conductor
Adolescent & Youth Worker - OWR Driver
Posts: 69
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Post by rml1969 on Nov 19, 2019 2:19:00 GMT
Forgot to enquire, is there a possibility of the ISA tool being activated on buses which TFL aren't responsible for?
Regards
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Post by kenmet on Nov 19, 2019 6:48:48 GMT
Personally I’ve never understood what seems to be outrage on this forum in the past regarding ISA. Buses shouldn’t be exceeding the legal speed limit on any road anyway, and so if they aren’t then what difference will it make? If it begun limiting buses to 20mph on 30mph roads, then yeah that’s a problem, but if it works consistently and reliably then I can’t see any issue myself. I don't see the problem either and eventually ISA will surely be fitted to all vehicles as standard. Extensive trials have been undertaken and engine torque rather than harsh breaking is used to slow vehicles down. The driver can turn the system off if necessary and I assume that it will be the same on buses?
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Post by M1104 on Nov 19, 2019 10:15:17 GMT
The driver can turn the system off if necessary and I assume that it will be the same on buses? By the engineers yes but wouldn't assume bus drivers would be able/allowed to switch them off. I know I'd be heavily tempted to if I could.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 19, 2019 11:18:46 GMT
Personally I’ve never understood what seems to be outrage on this forum in the past regarding ISA. Buses shouldn’t be exceeding the legal speed limit on any road anyway, and so if they aren’t then what difference will it make? If it begun limiting buses to 20mph on 30mph roads, then yeah that’s a problem, but if it works consistently and reliably then I can’t see any issue myself. I don't see the problem either and eventually ISA will surely be fitted to all vehicles as standard. Extensive trials have been undertaken and engine torque rather than harsh breaking is used to slow vehicles down. The driver can turn the system off if necessary and I assume that it will be the same on buses? I don't think they'll allow drivers to turn off the system otherwise then there is no point in wasting money by introducing it.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 19, 2019 12:20:57 GMT
Personally I’ve never understood what seems to be outrage on this forum in the past regarding ISA. Buses shouldn’t be exceeding the legal speed limit on any road anyway, and so if they aren’t then what difference will it make? If it begun limiting buses to 20mph on 30mph roads, then yeah that’s a problem, but if it works consistently and reliably then I can’t see any issue myself. I think you will find that the outrage is not ISA per se, but setting stupidly low speed limits for long stretches that ISA then follows Unfortunately some local authorities in London have taken the view that changes to speed limits are too confusing for some motorists, so if a road is currently mix of 20, 30, 40 mph (because it is different widths, different levels of built up etc) why not make it all the lower 20mph. So have a system that sticks to a round number speed limit, regardless of road / weather conditions and traffic levels. Effectively you are attaching a system to dumbed down, simplified data, not an intelligent solution. As proposed ISA will treat a deserted dry wide 4 lane road the same as a snowy narrow hazardous road, if that is what a digital map compiled remotely (without anyone visiting the road) says. So effectively get binary speed, (stop or 20mph), nothing controlled in between. Yes, the driver can go lower speed, but how they apply that is not consistent between individual drivers. And if no consistency, can't maintain headways except by delaying subsequent buses and their passengers. Thats why it is lambasted. That is exactly the problem, when you get certain local authorities to please the psycolist and everything is equal so cars must travel at 20 mph so it makes it fair so psycolists it doesn't surprise me at the hate towards ISA. When you have councils such as Hackney, Islington, Waltham Forest applying 20mph on major roads, you then get hardly most people respecting speed limits even on side roads now. I can understand a busy packed High St, where it may even be impossible to do 10 let alone 20 at times. But it has been applied on dead roads like Forest Road, Homerton Road between Hackney Marshes; there is no way I am going to sit behind a bus troddling at 20.
Many people on here hate buses being regulated, it would now become even more common place with ISA, so get used to it.
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