|
Post by SILENCED on Dec 5, 2019 15:04:03 GMT
There will never be 25 and such I think because the rules need to be black and white I suppose...you can't make some roads '25' instead of 20 at specific time of day / night because then when some idiot gets pulled over by police he will say well the law is confusing. Besides we all know if the road is 20, people go 30, if it's 30 people will go 40...so that 20mph zone is basically just to prevent people going 40 I think lol. I don’t agree with that it’s rubbish. The signs are there for a reason. I think all Town Centres should be 20 and Quiet Side Streets 25 MPH. Indeed if people are doing over 20 in a 20 zone they are breaking the law. I’ve seen people doing 40 in 20 zones. All it has done is turn the vast majority of London motorists into law breakers ... which will turn into another (local) government cash cow at some stage.
|
|
|
Post by DT 11 on Dec 5, 2019 15:04:06 GMT
20 MPH makes things safer but I think they should at least be 25 MPH. When in 20 Zones those who wish to overtake I let them pass. Too many dangerous drivers on the road and tbh I don’t wish to be near any of those incidents. In addition os it me or are Learner Car drivers now being taught to drive 10 / 20 mph under the speed limit. But 20mph isn't safer because there are many idiots on the road in the first place - it is a token gesture just to dupe people into thinking something is being done. Effra Road has two cameras and is 20mph yet is treated like a race track. 20mph also put pressure on bus running times which then need to be changed adding in an extra cost. From a pedestrian point of view 20 is safer no doubt. A collision at that speed will cause less critical damage...
|
|
|
Post by DT 11 on Dec 5, 2019 15:06:58 GMT
I don’t agree with that it’s rubbish. The signs are there for a reason. I think all Town Centres should be 20 and Quiet Side Streets 25 MPH. Indeed if people are doing over 20 in a 20 zone they are breaking the law. I’ve seen people doing 40 in 20 zones. All it has done is turn the vast majority of London motorists into law breakers ... which will turn into another (local) government cash cow at some stage. They will never do that... Greenwich Useless Council don’t do nothing with the amount of illegal parking in Plumstead Bus Lanes... So I cannot see that happening with less Police on the road.
|
|
|
Post by rif153 on Dec 5, 2019 15:40:15 GMT
Yes but previously when the roads had 20mph speed limits, buses would frequently drive faster than that, particularly when running late. ISA stringently limits him to 20mph its my point whereas before the speed limit was not enforced. If a bus is going over 20 MPH on a 20 MPH zone, it is breaking the law, 20 MPH isn't there for fancy decoration its there as a speed limit so it isn't ISA, ISA is simply following the speed limit that is set and the law. As I said, the problem is not ISA, it is the speed limit set, buses going over that limit are technically breaking the law, just because a bus is late, it does not give them the right to go say 25/30 MPH so regardless of whether it was enforced or not, that is the speed limit and that is the speed for that road so not one should be going faster. Whilst you may say the problem is the speed limit, it is a problem greatly exacberated by ISA
|
|
|
Post by E279 on Dec 5, 2019 16:04:33 GMT
If a bus is going over 20 MPH on a 20 MPH zone, it is breaking the law, 20 MPH isn't there for fancy decoration its there as a speed limit so it isn't ISA, ISA is simply following the speed limit that is set and the law. As I said, the problem is not ISA, it is the speed limit set, buses going over that limit are technically breaking the law, just because a bus is late, it does not give them the right to go say 25/30 MPH so regardless of whether it was enforced or not, that is the speed limit and that is the speed for that road so not one should be going faster. Whilst you may say the problem is the speed limit, it is a problem greatly exacberated by ISA I have to ask how? ISA ONLY keeps the driver at the speed at the road, that is the purpose of ISA and if you are going over that speed your breaking the law, it is very simple... even if the road is set to a stupid speed, you are still breaking the law if you go over that speed, you are liable to a penalty if caught.
|
|
|
Post by rif153 on Dec 5, 2019 16:15:10 GMT
Whilst you may say the problem is the speed limit, it is a problem greatly exacberated by ISA I have to ask how? ISA ONLY keeps the driver at the speed at the road, that is the purpose of ISA and if you are going over that speed your breaking the law, it is very simple... even if the road is set to a stupid speed, you are still breaking the law if you go over that speed, you are liable to a penalty if caught. As I have said ISA stringently and arbitrarily limits the speed of the bus, this is something the 20mph speed limit does not do. The GW driver I know didn't have cars beeping him all day before ISA was installed on his bus, the 20mph speed limit would never be enforced on the E1 but now with ISA the technology is enforcing it for the driver. Anyhow, there is little point in continuing this cyclical argument.
|
|
|
Post by E279 on Dec 5, 2019 16:25:27 GMT
I have to ask how? ISA ONLY keeps the driver at the speed at the road, that is the purpose of ISA and if you are going over that speed your breaking the law, it is very simple... even if the road is set to a stupid speed, you are still breaking the law if you go over that speed, you are liable to a penalty if caught. As I have said ISA stringently and arbitrarily limits the speed of the bus, this is something the 20mph speed limit does not do. The GW driver I know didn't have cars beeping him all day before ISA was installed on his bus, the 20mph speed limit would never be enforced on the E1 but now with ISA the technology is enforcing it for the driver. Anyhow, there is little point in continuing this cyclical argument. I have used the E1 recently and the bus I was on had ISA, limiting the bus to the correct limit of the road. What you have stated ISA is doing is what it is supposed to do, cars caught going over that speed limit also face prosecution your point seems to derive from a slower journey but one which complies with the law rather than breaks it. Nothing wrong with ISA though it seems to be the technology that is being slammed rather than the twits that make the speed limits. All speed limits are enforced somehow, may just be hidden to the public eye. To say it is not enforced means you know every person going down that road and that you know that no one has been given prosecution for breaking the limit. What has happened and has been said is that ISA can be a bit slow on the 232s buses and catches up a bit late so it does need some improvements regarding knowing its location or the speed it can do but that is not the point of your comment.
|
|
|
Post by SILENCED on Dec 5, 2019 16:35:17 GMT
As I have said ISA stringently and arbitrarily limits the speed of the bus, this is something the 20mph speed limit does not do. The GW driver I know didn't have cars beeping him all day before ISA was installed on his bus, the 20mph speed limit would never be enforced on the E1 but now with ISA the technology is enforcing it for the driver. Anyhow, there is little point in continuing this cyclical argument. I have used the E1 recently and the bus I was on had ISA, limiting the bus to the correct limit of the road. What you have stated ISA is doing is what it is supposed to do, cars caught going over that speed limit also face prosecution your point seems to derive from a slower journey but one which complies with the law rather than breaks it. Nothing wrong with ISA though it seems to be the technology that is being slammed rather than the twits that make the speed limits. All speed limits are enforced somehow, may just be hidden to the public eye. To say it is not enforced means you know every person going down that road and that you know that no one has been given prosecution for breaking the limit. What has happened and has been said is that ISA can be a bit slow on the 232s buses and catches up a bit late so it does need some improvements regarding knowing its location or the speed it can do but that is not the point of your comment. To be honest it is probably the 20mph limit that is being slammed rather than the technology.
|
|
|
Post by E279 on Dec 5, 2019 16:38:13 GMT
I have used the E1 recently and the bus I was on had ISA, limiting the bus to the correct limit of the road. What you have stated ISA is doing is what it is supposed to do, cars caught going over that speed limit also face prosecution your point seems to derive from a slower journey but one which complies with the law rather than breaks it. Nothing wrong with ISA though it seems to be the technology that is being slammed rather than the twits that make the speed limits. All speed limits are enforced somehow, may just be hidden to the public eye. To say it is not enforced means you know every person going down that road and that you know that no one has been given prosecution for breaking the limit. What has happened and has been said is that ISA can be a bit slow on the 232s buses and catches up a bit late so it does need some improvements regarding knowing its location or the speed it can do but that is not the point of your comment. To be honest it is probably the 20mph limit that is being slammed rather than the technology. Ah, I've seen a mixture of both which is why I included it but these 20 MPH limits are stupid and it seems some think it is ISA doing it when essentially ISA is just doing its job.
|
|
|
Post by redbus on Dec 5, 2019 16:41:03 GMT
If a bus is going over 20 MPH on a 20 MPH zone, it is breaking the law, 20 MPH isn't there for fancy decoration its there as a speed limit so it isn't ISA, ISA is simply following the speed limit that is set and the law. As I said, the problem is not ISA, it is the speed limit set, buses going over that limit are technically breaking the law, just because a bus is late, it does not give them the right to go say 25/30 MPH so regardless of whether it was enforced or not, that is the speed limit and that is the speed for that road so not one should be going faster. Whilst you may say the problem is the speed limit, it is a problem greatly exacberated by ISA Undoubtedly the slower the speed at the point of collision, the less the damage.
The problem is that a very crude way of trying to reduce the impact of an accident, when really what we need to do is to prevent the accident in the first place. That is far more difficult and my worry is that this mantra about 20 mph limits seems to be used as an excuse for not doing more on the prevention front because that is more difficult.
|
|
|
Post by Pilot on Dec 5, 2019 17:42:32 GMT
As a bus driver I can't wait for limiters because at that point nobody can rant at bus driver for doing 20 in 20 at 1AM in morning which is sometimes a bit ridiculous on big wide roads, besides it's kind of 'difficult' to keep it at steady 20 so it's either 18 or 22mph, so yeah when we got limiters at least I can just put the foot down and know it will not go above 20 and can focus on the road more than staring at the dash if I am speeding by 1mph by pure accident, but then again I a not a fan of these 20mph zones and all...I know bus drivers who literally went to different garages just because their routes got so slow and/or went on different rotas so they can at least drive in 30mph zones...not because of pleasure of speeding, but because 20mph roads is major headache to drive when it's a big wide road and you are leading a train of 40 cars behind you. I will be pleasantly surprised if it stops people ranting at you. If fear you will find that no one will care the reason why you are doing 20 mph, whether it is speed assist or anything else, if people get fed up with going at 20 mph they will rant anyway. Don't forget they already rant today when the law says the maximum speed is 20 mph.
I just think it just embraces car drivers to do 'dangerous' things to overtake buses and so on therefore potentially causing accidents, but yeah I don't think anyone cares...I personally am yet to find people who obey the 20mph in 20 even in their own car...unless they literally passed their driving test few weeks ago it's actually unheard of, even cops go over 20 in 20 but I guess I shouldn't go that far
In the end, I think one of reasons of people not obeying driving laws is because there is not enough policing around...I was on holiday in Spain, yeah crime rates are almost non existent so I suppose all cops can do is just drive around and 'patrol' the streets, where as here in London they don't really have time for that...man in Spain as example you will not be able to drive for more than a day without let's say broken tail light because they will spot it, here you can probably get away with it until your next mot. But again, this is a different rant at this point, but just saying...people don't follow law where they know they can get away with it for long time.
|
|
|
Post by busaholic on Dec 5, 2019 17:52:37 GMT
My feeling is that there's no point in speed limits in urban areas unless there is some way of enforcing them, be it with fixed speed cameras or regular spot checks, with attendant publicity. If 20 mph limits become widespread, as they appear to be doing, then perhaps 'average speed cameras', as per motorways during roadworks, might be considered over, say, a stretch of a mile or two, provided that there's no pedantry over the speed allowed i.e. if it comes up as 21.8 mph you shouldn't get a fine. A leeway of 2 0r 3 mph should be allowed.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Dec 5, 2019 18:28:10 GMT
But 20mph isn't safer because there are many idiots on the road in the first place - it is a token gesture just to dupe people into thinking something is being done. Effra Road has two cameras and is 20mph yet is treated like a race track. 20mph also put pressure on bus running times which then need to be changed adding in an extra cost. From a pedestrian point of view 20 is safer no doubt. A collision at that speed will cause less critical damage... But that’s only from one set of vehicles which are outnumbered by all other types which can in theory and regardless of legality, can still speed beyond the limit. I’m a pedestrian myself yet I’m quite comfortable at having a higher speed on my local roads because it’s about how a driver behaves rather than merely a speed limit.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 20:33:54 GMT
From a car drivers point of view 20mph can be a pain, luckily most of Newham is still 30mph but when in Tower Hamlets I find my self worrying about breaking the speed limit and probably look at my speed more than I should instead of in front of me. Having driven for 16 years its just natural to be able to judge 25 - 30 mph.
Can the bus system be overridden if a bus suddenly needed to increase its speed ?
|
|
|
Post by galwhv69 on Dec 5, 2019 21:07:47 GMT
From a car drivers point of view 20mph can be a pain, luckily most of Newham is still 30mph but when in Tower Hamlets I find my self worrying about breaking the speed limit and probably look at my speed more than I should instead of in front of me. Having driven for 16 years its just natural to be able to judge 25 - 30 mph. Can the bus system be overridden if a bus suddenly needed to increase its speed ? IIRC, someone stated that it can only be done by engineers
|
|