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Post by route53 on Jan 9, 2020 10:36:56 GMT
Much like the Stratford to Bishop Stortford service, could some services terminate in major Zone 2/3 hubs?
This could relieve the zone 1 terminals, and commuting patterns have changed along with the traditional London hubs; the West End & the City aren’t the only urban hubs anymore, places like Stratford and Greenwich Peninsula are fast becoming urban hubs in their own right, Lewisham & Battersea are also being regenerated into such hubs.
Could there be scope in having similar rail services like the Stratford to BS one? I thought of a Clapham Junction to Rochester service, which would be semi fast, calling at Brixton, Herne Hill, Penge East, Beckenham, Bromley, Swanley then all stations, such a service could run only 1tph, another one could be a New Cross to Tunbridge Wells service?
Treat this as fantasy if you want 😊
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Post by greenboy on Jan 9, 2020 11:11:15 GMT
Much like the Stratford to Bishop Stortford service, could some services terminate in major Zone 2/3 hubs? This could relieve the zone 1 terminals, and commuting patterns have changed along with the traditional London hubs; the West End & the City aren’t the only urban hubs anymore, places like Stratford and Greenwich Peninsula are fast becoming urban hubs in their own right, Lewisham & Battersea are also being regenerated into such hubs. Could there be scope in having similar rail services like the Stratford to BS one? I thought of a Clapham Junction to Rochester service, which would be semi fast, calling at Brixton, Herne Hill, Penge East, Beckenham, Bromley, Swanley then all stations, such a service could run only 1tph, another one could be a New Cross to Tunbridge Wells service? Treat this as fantasy if you want 😊 Routes terminating in zone 1 isn't ideal, The Strand has been mentioned many times with the 6,9 and 87 in one direction terminating at Aldwych and the 15 and 91 in the other direction terminating at Trafalgar Square and too many buses on the overlap. A direct train service to and from Clapham Junction towards Herne Hill would be useful but with track capacity at a premium I can't see it happening and any Tunbridge Wells to New Cross might as well continue to London Bridge.
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Post by kmkcheng on Jan 9, 2020 11:23:07 GMT
Much like the Stratford to Bishop Stortford service, could some services terminate in major Zone 2/3 hubs? This could relieve the zone 1 terminals, and commuting patterns have changed along with the traditional London hubs; the West End & the City aren’t the only urban hubs anymore, places like Stratford and Greenwich Peninsula are fast becoming urban hubs in their own right, Lewisham & Battersea are also being regenerated into such hubs. Could there be scope in having similar rail services like the Stratford to BS one? I thought of a Clapham Junction to Rochester service, which would be semi fast, calling at Brixton, Herne Hill, Penge East, Beckenham, Bromley, Swanley then all stations, such a service could run only 1tph, another one could be a New Cross to Tunbridge Wells service? Treat this as fantasy if you want 😊 Of course it’s dependent if there’s demand for passengers for the hub rather than the London terminal. Also would require a station that has capacity to turn round a service there and also remember that pathing this sort of service could potentially mean taking away a service that would serve a London terminal. Your Rochester to Clapham Junction service sounds interesting but wondering could it be extended further west or southwest direction to create a cross-London service? This could be your zone 2/3 service without having to terminate at the hub and is basically 2 services in 1
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Post by route53 on Jan 9, 2020 11:50:23 GMT
Much like the Stratford to Bishop Stortford service, could some services terminate in major Zone 2/3 hubs? This could relieve the zone 1 terminals, and commuting patterns have changed along with the traditional London hubs; the West End & the City aren’t the only urban hubs anymore, places like Stratford and Greenwich Peninsula are fast becoming urban hubs in their own right, Lewisham & Battersea are also being regenerated into such hubs. Could there be scope in having similar rail services like the Stratford to BS one? I thought of a Clapham Junction to Rochester service, which would be semi fast, calling at Brixton, Herne Hill, Penge East, Beckenham, Bromley, Swanley then all stations, such a service could run only 1tph, another one could be a New Cross to Tunbridge Wells service? Treat this as fantasy if you want 😊 Of course it’s dependent if there’s demand for passengers for the hub rather than the London terminal. Also would require a station that has capacity to turn round a service there and also remember that pathing this sort of service could potentially mean taking away a service that would serve a London terminal. Your Rochester to Clapham Junction service sounds interesting but wondering could it be extended further west or southwest direction to create a cross-London service? This could be your zone 2/3 service without having to terminate at the hub and is basically 2 services in 1 If the timetabling allows then this would be ideal, I’ve always supported a Cross South London rail link, I recall years ago there was a group advocating such a service by merging the semi fast Gillingham via Woolwich service with the fast and semi fast Windsor and Reading services via Clapham Junction, but running such a service would be easier to run via Bromley since it would avoid the mess around Lewisham
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Post by greenboy on Jan 9, 2020 16:47:04 GMT
Of course it’s dependent if there’s demand for passengers for the hub rather than the London terminal. Also would require a station that has capacity to turn round a service there and also remember that pathing this sort of service could potentially mean taking away a service that would serve a London terminal. Your Rochester to Clapham Junction service sounds interesting but wondering could it be extended further west or southwest direction to create a cross-London service? This could be your zone 2/3 service without having to terminate at the hub and is basically 2 services in 1 If the timetabling allows then this would be ideal, I’ve always supported a Cross South London rail link, I recall years ago there was a group advocating such a service by merging the semi fast Gillingham via Woolwich service with the fast and semi fast Windsor and Reading services via Clapham Junction, but running such a service would be easier to run via Bromley since it would avoid the mess around Lewisham Bromley North to Dartford via Hither Green curve is another one that has been suggested but probably not viable.
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Post by wirewiper on Jan 9, 2020 17:01:04 GMT
If the timetabling allows then this would be ideal, I’ve always supported a Cross South London rail link, I recall years ago there was a group advocating such a service by merging the semi fast Gillingham via Woolwich service with the fast and semi fast Windsor and Reading services via Clapham Junction, but running such a service would be easier to run via Bromley since it would avoid the mess around Lewisham Bromley North to Dartford via Hither Green curve is another one that has been suggested but probably not viable. Yes, highly unlikely this would be viable. Also trains coming on and off the Bromley North Branch would set up a series of conflicting moves as they crossed over the fast lines to get to the slow lines. There simply isn't the capacity to do that at peak times which is why it is unlikely the Bromley North Line will now ever be more than a shuttle from Grove Park.
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Post by kmkcheng on Jan 9, 2020 17:04:00 GMT
If the timetabling allows then this would be ideal, I’ve always supported a Cross South London rail link, I recall years ago there was a group advocating such a service by merging the semi fast Gillingham via Woolwich service with the fast and semi fast Windsor and Reading services via Clapham Junction, but running such a service would be easier to run via Bromley since it would avoid the mess around Lewisham Bromley North to Dartford via Hither Green curve is another one that has been suggested but probably not viable. If a direct Bromley North to Central London service isn’t viable, one to Dartford that also has to cross a number of lines, taking up multiple paths to get to the curve, definitely won’t be either.
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Post by greenboy on Jan 9, 2020 17:04:27 GMT
Bromley North to Dartford via Hither Green curve is another one that has been suggested but probably not viable. Yes, highly unlikely this would be viable. Also trains coming on and off the Bromley North Branch would set up a series of conflicting moves as they crossed over the fast lines to get to the slow lines. There simply isn't the capacity to do that at peak times which is why it is unlikely the Bromley North Line will now ever be more than a shuttle from Grove Park. Indeed the conflict at Grove Park and the limited capacity at Dartford mean it'll never happen. Bromley North did once have peak hour trains to Charing Cross, fast between Hither Green and London Bridge as I recall.
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Post by wirewiper on Jan 9, 2020 17:06:23 GMT
Much like the Stratford to Bishop Stortford service, could some services terminate in major Zone 2/3 hubs? This could relieve the zone 1 terminals, and commuting patterns have changed along with the traditional London hubs; the West End & the City aren’t the only urban hubs anymore, places like Stratford and Greenwich Peninsula are fast becoming urban hubs in their own right, Lewisham & Battersea are also being regenerated into such hubs. Could there be scope in having similar rail services like the Stratford to BS one? I thought of a Clapham Junction to Rochester service, which would be semi fast, calling at Brixton, Herne Hill, Penge East, Beckenham, Bromley, Swanley then all stations, such a service could run only 1tph, another one could be a New Cross to Tunbridge Wells service? Treat this as fantasy if you want 😊 The Stratford to Bishop's Stortford case is unusual. These trains terminate on a platform that keeps them clear of the main running lines, so not running them though is actually advantageous in this case as it eliminates conflicting moves - for the commuter peaks into and out of London terminals, you want to "plain-line" as much as possible. Also, crucially, there are a number of possible onward routes which are able to absorb the arriving passengers, rather than have most of them trying to squeeze onto already crowded trains for their onward journey into Central London.
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Post by Dillon95 on Jan 11, 2020 10:35:18 GMT
Much like the Stratford to Bishop Stortford service, could some services terminate in major Zone 2/3 hubs? This could relieve the zone 1 terminals, and commuting patterns have changed along with the traditional London hubs; the West End & the City aren’t the only urban hubs anymore, places like Stratford and Greenwich Peninsula are fast becoming urban hubs in their own right, Lewisham & Battersea are also being regenerated into such hubs. Could there be scope in having similar rail services like the Stratford to BS one? I thought of a Clapham Junction to Rochester service, which would be semi fast, calling at Brixton, Herne Hill, Penge East, Beckenham, Bromley, Swanley then all stations, such a service could run only 1tph, another one could be a New Cross to Tunbridge Wells service? Treat this as fantasy if you want 😊 Of course it’s dependent if there’s demand for passengers for the hub rather than the London terminal. Also would require a station that has capacity to turn round a service there and also remember that pathing this sort of service could potentially mean taking away a service that would serve a London terminal. Your Rochester to Clapham Junction service sounds interesting but wondering could it be extended further west or southwest direction to create a cross-London service? This could be your zone 2/3 service without having to terminate at the hub and is basically 2 services in 1 Here's my idea based off of this, extending it on from Clapham Junction to Reading, to make it a Thameslink style south east of London to west of London service. Also I think it makes more sense to extend it from Rochester to Gillingham as it's bay platform is currently vacant and it would then also serve Chatham and Gillingham. I'd also alternate between 1tph going to Gillingham and the other to Maidstone East, with it's bay platform also currently unused. I've chosen Reading as my destination, another idea I have is Guildford either via Surbiton or via Epsom. 1tph Gillingham to Reading via Clapham Junction Calling at Chatham, Rochester, Longfield, Swanley, Bromley South, Beckenham Junction, Herne Hill, Clapham Junction, Richmond, Twickenham, Feltham, Staines, Ascot & Reading. 1tph Maidstone East to Reading via Clapham Junction Calling at West Malling, Otford, Swanley, Bromley South, Beckenham Junction, Herne Hill, Clapham Junction, Richmond, Twickenham, Feltham, Staines, Ascot & Reading.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 11, 2020 11:19:40 GMT
Of course it’s dependent if there’s demand for passengers for the hub rather than the London terminal. Also would require a station that has capacity to turn round a service there and also remember that pathing this sort of service could potentially mean taking away a service that would serve a London terminal. Your Rochester to Clapham Junction service sounds interesting but wondering could it be extended further west or southwest direction to create a cross-London service? This could be your zone 2/3 service without having to terminate at the hub and is basically 2 services in 1 Here's my idea based off of this, extending it on from Clapham Junction to Reading, to make it a Thameslink style south east of London to west of London service. Also I think it makes more sense to extend it from Rochester to Gillingham as it's bay platform is currently vacant and it would then also serve Chatham and Gillingham. I'd also alternate between 1tph going to Gillingham and the other to Maidstone East, with it's bay platform also currently unused. I've chosen Reading as my destination, another idea I have is Guildford either via Surbiton or via Epsom. 1tph Gillingham to Reading via Clapham Junction Calling at Chatham, Rochester, Longfield, Swanley, Bromley South, Beckenham Junction, Herne Hill, Clapham Junction, Richmond, Twickenham, Feltham, Staines, Ascot & Reading. 1tph Maidstone East to Reading via Clapham Junction Calling at West Malling, Otford, Swanley, Bromley South, Beckenham Junction, Herne Hill, Clapham Junction, Richmond, Twickenham, Feltham, Staines, Ascot & Reading. As this is fantasy, can I have a stop at Brixton please lol.
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Post by Dillon95 on Jan 11, 2020 12:43:03 GMT
Here's my idea based off of this, extending it on from Clapham Junction to Reading, to make it a Thameslink style south east of London to west of London service. Also I think it makes more sense to extend it from Rochester to Gillingham as it's bay platform is currently vacant and it would then also serve Chatham and Gillingham. I'd also alternate between 1tph going to Gillingham and the other to Maidstone East, with it's bay platform also currently unused. I've chosen Reading as my destination, another idea I have is Guildford either via Surbiton or via Epsom. 1tph Gillingham to Reading via Clapham Junction Calling at Chatham, Rochester, Longfield, Swanley, Bromley South, Beckenham Junction, Herne Hill, Clapham Junction, Richmond, Twickenham, Feltham, Staines, Ascot & Reading. 1tph Maidstone East to Reading via Clapham Junction Calling at West Malling, Otford, Swanley, Bromley South, Beckenham Junction, Herne Hill, Clapham Junction, Richmond, Twickenham, Feltham, Staines, Ascot & Reading. As this is fantasy, can I have a stop at Brixton please lol. Haha oh go on then 😋
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Post by greenboy on Jan 11, 2020 13:15:03 GMT
Of course it’s dependent if there’s demand for passengers for the hub rather than the London terminal. Also would require a station that has capacity to turn round a service there and also remember that pathing this sort of service could potentially mean taking away a service that would serve a London terminal. Your Rochester to Clapham Junction service sounds interesting but wondering could it be extended further west or southwest direction to create a cross-London service? This could be your zone 2/3 service without having to terminate at the hub and is basically 2 services in 1 Here's my idea based off of this, extending it on from Clapham Junction to Reading, to make it a Thameslink style south east of London to west of London service. Also I think it makes more sense to extend it from Rochester to Gillingham as it's bay platform is currently vacant and it would then also serve Chatham and Gillingham. I'd also alternate between 1tph going to Gillingham and the other to Maidstone East, with it's bay platform also currently unused. I've chosen Reading as my destination, another idea I have is Guildford either via Surbiton or via Epsom. 1tph Gillingham to Reading via Clapham Junction Calling at Chatham, Rochester, Longfield, Swanley, Bromley South, Beckenham Junction, Herne Hill, Clapham Junction, Richmond, Twickenham, Feltham, Staines, Ascot & Reading. 1tph Maidstone East to Reading via Clapham Junction Calling at West Malling, Otford, Swanley, Bromley South, Beckenham Junction, Herne Hill, Clapham Junction, Richmond, Twickenham, Feltham, Staines, Ascot & Reading. Nice ideas but I just don't think there is enough track capacity to accommodate such services. I did wonder about extending LO, preferably the service to and from the Surrey Quays direction, from Clapham Junction in a loop via Twickenham and Brentford to give a cross south London service but again probably not enough capacity.
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Post by Dillon95 on Jan 11, 2020 14:12:07 GMT
Here's my idea based off of this, extending it on from Clapham Junction to Reading, to make it a Thameslink style south east of London to west of London service. Also I think it makes more sense to extend it from Rochester to Gillingham as it's bay platform is currently vacant and it would then also serve Chatham and Gillingham. I'd also alternate between 1tph going to Gillingham and the other to Maidstone East, with it's bay platform also currently unused. I've chosen Reading as my destination, another idea I have is Guildford either via Surbiton or via Epsom. 1tph Gillingham to Reading via Clapham Junction Calling at Chatham, Rochester, Longfield, Swanley, Bromley South, Beckenham Junction, Herne Hill, Clapham Junction, Richmond, Twickenham, Feltham, Staines, Ascot & Reading. 1tph Maidstone East to Reading via Clapham Junction Calling at West Malling, Otford, Swanley, Bromley South, Beckenham Junction, Herne Hill, Clapham Junction, Richmond, Twickenham, Feltham, Staines, Ascot & Reading. Nice ideas but I just don't think there is enough track capacity to accommodate such services. I did wonder about extending LO, preferably the service to and from the Surrey Quays direction, from Clapham Junction in a loop via Twickenham and Brentford to give a cross south London service but again probably not enough capacity. Couldn't the capacity problem for your idea be solved by having these instead of the South West metro services to Waterloo though?
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Post by SILENCED on Jan 11, 2020 14:19:14 GMT
Nice ideas but I just don't think there is enough track capacity to accommodate such services. I did wonder about extending LO, preferably the service to and from the Surrey Quays direction, from Clapham Junction in a loop via Twickenham and Brentford to give a cross south London service but again probably not enough capacity. Couldn't the capacity problem for your idea be solved by having these instead of the South West metro services to Waterloo though? Oh I can hear the protests now if you suggest withdrawing Waterloo services.
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