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Post by greenboy on Jan 20, 2020 10:57:31 GMT
The 227 serves a purpose as a short but busy route restricted to SDs and generally is well used most times of the day. Plus the 249 and 417 provide more then enough cacapcity between Crystal Palace and Streatham. You're right, the 249 and 417 provide ample capacity between Crystal Palace and Streatham so unless the 227 extension was going to replace one of those routes it just wouldn't be viable.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 20, 2020 11:19:19 GMT
The 227 serves a purpose as a short but busy route restricted to SDs and generally is well used most times of the day. Plus the 249 and 417 provide more then enough cacapcity between Crystal Palace and Streatham. You're right, the 249 and 417 provide ample capacity between Crystal Palace and Streatham so unless the 227 extension was going to replace one of those routes it just wouldn't be viable. The 417 doesn't provide ample capacity during peaks or school kicking out time and is unreliable - have lost count how many times people standing at certain stops between Streatham & Crown Point have been turned away from packed buses.
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Post by greenboy on Jan 20, 2020 11:43:57 GMT
You're right, the 249 and 417 provide ample capacity between Crystal Palace and Streatham so unless the 227 extension was going to replace one of those routes it just wouldn't be viable. The 417 doesn't provide ample capacity during peaks or school kicking out time and is unreliable - have lost count how many times people standing at certain stops between Streatham & Crown Point have been turned away from packed buses. A lot of routes get overun at school and peak times but there is no way another 7 or 8 buses an hour could be justified just to save a fairly easy change of bus at Crystal Palace.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 20, 2020 13:13:28 GMT
The 417 is a 35 mins route. If its unreliable then it's an operator issue and 90% of the day the capacity is sufficient so cant really justify extending another route to support it. Particularly as it could compromise the 227 on its solo sections.
With quite a lot of school demand at Crown Point I think a 6xx school route may be useful. Maybe Streatham Hill (past dunraven school) then maybe down to Penge to provide some cross CP links and relieve the 417.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 20, 2020 18:30:33 GMT
The 417 doesn't provide ample capacity during peaks or school kicking out time and is unreliable - have lost count how many times people standing at certain stops between Streatham & Crown Point have been turned away from packed buses. A lot of routes get overun at school and peak times but there is no way another 7 or 8 buses an hour could be justified just to save a fairly easy change of bus at Crystal Palace. I’m very aware that lots of routes get overrun but equally you don’t stick your head in the sand and ignore the issue as we’ve seen many cases where something has been done to minimise or solve the issue so it’s no excuse regardless of whether the 227 is the right choice or not.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 20, 2020 19:03:21 GMT
But what's the issue?? I don't think many have reported over crowding between CP and Streatham have they?
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Post by greg on Jan 20, 2020 19:06:48 GMT
I think the 214 should recieve an N214 instead of its 24Hr and run somewhere different from Old Street..
Maybe follow the N205 to Shoreditch, run via Commerical Street to Aldgate and then terminate?
Also means however duplicates the N205 between Shoreditch and Kings Cross??
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Post by greenboy on Jan 20, 2020 20:02:47 GMT
But what's the issue?? I don't think many have reported over crowding between CP and Streatham have they? Indeed it's probably a case of being careful what you wish for, any review of services between Crystal Palace and Streatham is likely to result in a reduction. There is a frequent train service between CP and Streatham Hill that takes about 10 minutes.
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Post by galwhv69 on Jan 20, 2020 21:05:19 GMT
The 417 is a 35 mins route. If its unreliable then it's an operator issue and 90% of the day the capacity is sufficient so cant really justify extending another route to support it. Particularly as it could compromise the 227 on its solo sections. With quite a lot of school demand at Crown Point I think a 6xx school route may be useful. Maybe Streatham Hill (past dunraven school) then maybe down to Penge to provide some cross CP links and relieve the 417. The 417 already has a school journey but that gets packed (sometimes not possible to get on at Streatham Hill Station) so would require at least 2 school buses following each other.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 20, 2020 21:24:02 GMT
Not surprising most of the school at Crown point and Dunraven school basically all come out at the same time and are heading in either direction.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 20, 2020 22:09:56 GMT
But what's the issue?? I don't think many have reported over crowding between CP and Streatham have they? What do you mean "what's the issue" - is unreliability and struggling to get on packed buses not issues or are they something else? Just because it's not reported doesn't mean it doesn't happen. greenboy the train serves Gipsy Hill, West Norwood & Streatham Hill - it doesn't serve Central Hill, Crown Dale, Crown Point, Crown Lane & Leigham Court Road so why would 417 passengers requiring these places board a train that doesn't go near them?
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 20, 2020 22:30:59 GMT
So you really think the 417 needs 7 days a week support because schools along the route cause overcrowding? Schools that are open for around 39 weeks a year. By all means add 2 extra journeys in the school rush during term time.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 20, 2020 22:35:21 GMT
So you really think the 417 needs 7 days a week support because schools along the route cause overcrowding? Schools that are open for around 39 weeks a year. By all means add 2 extra journeys in the school rush during term time. All I'm saying is it needs some sort of support and it needs TfL to look into what is making it unreliable.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 20, 2020 22:49:11 GMT
Be careful what you ask for. Tfl could improve the reliability by cutting it to Streatham Hill and saying hopper fare on the 137 to Clapham Common. My guess the reliability would be hampered by the tail backs up to Crown Point due to so many roadworks.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 20, 2020 22:54:13 GMT
Be careful what you ask for. Tfl could improve the reliability by cutting it to Streatham Hill and saying hopper fare on the 137 to Clapham Common. My guess the reliability would be hampered by the tail backs up to Crown Point due to so many roadworks. TfL could currently do that to any route especially given the nonsense proposed at Gallions Reach so not sure my opinion being out in public or not would sway them one way or the other. If I was to guess, it's the Palace bound journeys that are the issue as they do suffer from queues at the Knollys Road/Valley Road junctions, Crown Point & the regular queue snaking down Central Hill as everything tries to cram onto the Palace one way system.
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