|
Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 20, 2020 19:26:00 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jan 20, 2020 19:34:49 GMT
All the action TfL is taking is probably what's causing this. I'm starting to think they should outsource the project of increasing bus usage to an external body if possible.
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Jan 20, 2020 20:53:54 GMT
All the action TfL is taking is probably what's causing this. I'm starting to think they should outsource the project of increasing bus usage to an external body if possible. I agree and it seems TfL are quite happy to let bus usage decline.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Jan 20, 2020 22:21:33 GMT
All the action TfL is taking is probably what's causing this. I'm starting to think they should outsource the project of increasing bus usage to an external body if possible. Indeed - the issues have been staring them in the face for a number of years now and yet, they're still oblivious to any of these issues. That said, Travelwatch aren't much better - as a watchdog, they really should do more to hold TfL to account.
|
|
|
Post by routew15 on Jan 21, 2020 0:06:45 GMT
More bus priority on Outer London routes, especially on routes to feed into Central London. Buses are probably not going to win against bikes in the fight for road space in Central London, but the fight for space in Outer London is still one to be won. There needs to be more bus priority so that bus can be more swift, punctual and reliable in Outer London.
For years there have been reports and talks of orbital routes and express route and barely any have materialised! There is an appetite for cross london bus trips.
The constant switcheroo of bus routings especially in Central London is definitely a contributing factor to declining bus use.
The amount of times I have seen the 12 on long term curtailments for a demonstration/roadworks/events really does not help with retaining commuting pattern.
Same for the 388. To Elephant & Castle. To Liverpool Street. To London Bridge. How are passengers meant to commit to commuting via bus if in a couple months or years times it’s just gonna shift to somewhere else.
Im not entirely opposed to bus route changes, but it they need to connect to where people actually want to go.
|
|
|
Post by ServerKing on Jan 21, 2020 3:06:25 GMT
Most buses in the City only carry air during the daytime. It's only out of sheer tiredness or laziness (if carrying parts for work on foot) I would bother to take the bus nowadays. Most times I can outwalk them, due to crippling traffic. And don't get me started on the pinch points (Kings Cross / Euston Road / most of London west of Shepherd's Bush )... People live technology and see the lack of wifi, no LED blinds, poor branding, routes chopped up like a toddler's first pasta dish and decide to just get in the many minicabs that clog the streets. It seems making them pay the Congestion Charge only made more of them come into the City to work. The ads "Watch Your Speed - Your Mate Does" is very appropriate if they are sat next to you in the passenger seat of the van and barely see the speedo hit 15 on a good day The Guardian article mentioned a Claire Mann at TfL who is in charge of the buses. Does she really exist, or is she a generic name put onto the letters like "J Snell" at the Traffic Police's Prosecution department in Dartford? TfL has become a useless, faceless body like The Royal Family or the BBC which has no real relevance in people's lives anymore. They could learn from their neighbour Reading Buses on how to run more interesting and more integrated services. We get old routes taken out with no reason, but are fobbed off with pointless ones or unnecessary amendments like the 218... it's like when Tottenham Hotspur throw on an unknown player in the 78th minute to try and turn a game around, but the result remains the same Only nice thing is Bank Junction is as empty as most streets on Christmas Day, but it's chaos elsewhere. Aldgate and Fenchurch Street are a mess, even a small bit of roadworks in Tottenham Hale on the A1055 can cause gridlock to Chingford, Edmonton, Palmers Green as there's few alternatives. I used to love bus travel and had this been back in the day, I would have been sad enough to ride the new kit on the 100, or sampled a Streetdeck hybrid on the 25 (most seem to be getting replaced with MV's now anyway ) The far outskirts seem the best parts for buses at the moment, but TfL needs to improve services in the centre rather than trying to just shift buses to the suburbs. London is like someone fighting a virus where extremities are freezing cold and only your stomach is hot Bus travel will continue to fall, even when or if Crossrail opens, it will be too little, too late. Haven't they heard of online shopping or working from home? That's where people are, having gotten peed off with roadworks, various strike days, and lousy services. Enthusiasm for buses is dying, everything is governed down, gears are not stretched anymore, everyone on the bus is vexed, so not a place I'd spend time like before. 20 zones are important for side roads, but for main ones it's too slow. There was a secret plan to bring in 10 and 5 zones if Sadiq gets another term I hope "Claire Mann" or whatever pseudonym exists at TfL can sort things out, but I doubt it
|
|
|
Post by busman on Jan 21, 2020 8:21:05 GMT
Ever increasing London population combined with 20mph speed limits, bus lanes lost to cycle lanes, no priority at junctions and more traffic being forced out of side streets and onto main roads has led to slower average bus speeds. What else did the transport planning geniuses at TfL think would happen? Sadly bus travel is a necessity rather than a choice for me these days. I say that as an enthusiast, so I wonder how non enthusiasts feel about the state of our buses.
|
|
|
Post by wirewiper on Jan 21, 2020 8:59:49 GMT
Speed up bus services by bringing in many more bus priority measures and by introducing draconian measures to cut car use. Anything else is just catfooting around.
"War on the motorist"? Bring it on, I say.
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 22, 2020 23:19:28 GMT
More bus priority on Outer London routes, especially on routes to feed into Central London. Buses are probably not going to win against bikes in the fight for road space in Central London, but the fight for space in Outer London is still one to be won. There needs to be more bus priority so that bus can be more swift, punctual and reliable in Outer London. For years there have been reports and talks of orbital routes and express route and barely any have materialised! There is an appetite for cross london bus trips. The constant switcheroo of bus routings especially in Central London is definitely a contributing factor to declining bus use. The amount of times I have seen the 12 on long term curtailments for a demonstration/roadworks/events really does not help with retaining commuting pattern. Same for the 388. To Elephant & Castle. To Liverpool Street. To London Bridge. How are passengers meant to commit to commuting via bus if in a couple months or years times it’s just gonna shift to somewhere else. Im not entirely opposed to bus route changes, but it they need to connect to where people actually want to go. I am still shocked that we do not have long enough orbital routes, a lot of them are successful. Most of the transport infrastructure in London is geared up to going in towards the centre then going out, whether by train, Underground, bus. Many of these demo's & protests in Central London has to stop, in plain and simple 95% of them are pathetic and would never achieve nothing. A route like the 29 for example is plagued by constant demo's at Whitehall, Trafalgar Square etc. not to mention roadworks at TCR for Crossrail, two-way at TCR not to mention all the other roadworks, there would be no consistency over this section between say Camden and Trafalgar Square with either the 29 or 24.
Another recent example what TfL did was confirming the 128 would be diverted as per 5 and 175 with a poorly distributed consultation as usual, just put it online, forget giving leaflets out on the bus or engaging the public. TfL is to blame more than the mayor for failing services.
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 22, 2020 23:46:44 GMT
Speed up bus services by bringing in many more bus priority measures and by introducing draconian measures to cut car use. Anything else is just catfooting around. "War on the motorist"? Bring it on, I say. Hmmm, you would do well working at City Hall or LBWF, or maybe TfL; it is this sort of attitude that is ruining the buses. Do you have a licence or a car, to me it sounds like the type of person that does not driver so would never see the other side of the coin. Your war on motorist measures are more than welcome, but don't start complaining when they hit the bus, because at the end of the day, the bus is always the worst loser of all these war on motorist schemes. In this time conscious society there is no way I can use the bus for everything, it just doesn't cut it. the days of fast & frequent marketed buses by LT are long gone. Its more the case of a crippled slow old donkey. Car use in London is down, so what do you think you are going to achieve? What next try to limit Uber? don't think so, that would not work, the public are brainwashed by them, look at what happened when Kham initially tried to ban them; there was public outcry in support of them, despite the problems they have caused.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Jan 23, 2020 0:56:56 GMT
Speed up bus services by bringing in many more bus priority measures and by introducing draconian measures to cut car use. Anything else is just catfooting around. "War on the motorist"? Bring it on, I say. Hmmm, you would do well working at City Hall or LBWF, or maybe TfL; it is this sort of attitude that is ruining the buses. Do you have a licence or a car, to me it sounds like the type of person that does not driver so would never see the other side of the coin. Your war on motorist measures are more than welcome, but don't start complaining when they hit the bus, because at the end of the day, the bus is always the worst loser of all these war on motorist schemes. In this time conscious society there is no way I can use the bus for everything, it just doesn't cut it. the days of fast & frequent marketed buses by LT are long gone. Its more the case of a crippled slow old donkey. Car use in London is down, so what do you think you are going to achieve? What next try to limit Uber? don't think so, that would not work, the public are brainwashed by them, look at what happened when Kham initially tried to ban them; there was public outcry in support of them, despite the problems they have caused.
Neither City Hall, TfL or Waltham Forest are doing what wirewiper suggests but the total opposite - narrowing roads whilst not restricting what goes on them is absolutely barmy and all it does is pile up the congestion. Tower Hamlets got a lot of stick for introducing that junction scheme that severly reduced what could pass through there but I'm afraid that's what needs to happen personally to give the bus a more equal chance because it's not dead yet and it still has plenty of life in it but if we carry on doing nothing, it could get very messy. I'm afraid, one mode of transport has to severly reduced and that unfortunately is cars. Now I'd rather it would be cyclists but that's never going to happen and it can't be buses because then, there is not much point. Minicabs, either Uber or whoever else, will always be required but must be properly regulated and restricted to a certain extent so cars have to be the fall guy and if it's done properly, the bus won't be hit in the process. The first step is look at town centres and begin looking at removing some pedestrian zones and look at restricting access to certain streets to just buses.
|
|
|
Post by snowman on Jan 23, 2020 6:03:52 GMT
Hmmm, you would do well working at City Hall or LBWF, or maybe TfL; it is this sort of attitude that is ruining the buses. Do you have a licence or a car, to me it sounds like the type of person that does not driver so would never see the other side of the coin. Your war on motorist measures are more than welcome, but don't start complaining when they hit the bus, because at the end of the day, the bus is always the worst loser of all these war on motorist schemes. In this time conscious society there is no way I can use the bus for everything, it just doesn't cut it. the days of fast & frequent marketed buses by LT are long gone. Its more the case of a crippled slow old donkey. Car use in London is down, so what do you think you are going to achieve? What next try to limit Uber? don't think so, that would not work, the public are brainwashed by them, look at what happened when Kham initially tried to ban them; there was public outcry in support of them, despite the problems they have caused.
Neither City Hall, TfL or Waltham Forest are doing what wirewiper suggests but the total opposite - narrowing roads whilst not restricting what goes on them is absolutely barmy and all it does is pile up the congestion. Tower Hamlets got a lot of stick for introducing that junction scheme that severly reduced what could pass through there but I'm afraid that's what needs to happen personally to give the bus a more equal chance because it's not dead yet and it still has plenty of life in it but if we carry on doing nothing, it could get very messy. I'm afraid, one mode of transport has to severly reduced and that unfortunately is cars. Now I'd rather it would be cyclists but that's never going to happen and it can't be buses because then, there is not much point. Minicabs, either Uber or whoever else, will always be required but must be properly regulated and restricted to a certain extent so cars have to be the fall guy and if it's done properly, the bus won't be hit in the process. The first step is look at town centres and begin looking at removing some pedestrian zones and look at restricting access to certain streets to just buses. What the watchdog and transport planners haven’t yet worked out is if you want to make the buses go faster, you need to get the other traffic away from the junctions that delay them. Very few roads in London are wide enough for bus lanes through junctions, so blocking alternative routes for cars, vans and motorcycles by shutting side turnings forces more onto the busy junctions. In theory a segregated bus lane could have higher speed limit, but not done in London. There is an element at City Hall that assume people won’t have a car, and lots of new apartments don’t have anywhere to park them, but that doesn’t help those that need to visit the country. Other Cities (Paris, Venice etc) have built massive multi storey long term car parks on edge. A place to keep your car for visiting rural relatives, but not somewhere close enough to use it for short journey. London hasn’t adopted this policy, instead just tries to slow everything including buses.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2020 7:48:04 GMT
There are many reasons why people in London are using buses less and less. Lack of affordable housing , increased congestion, night tube, Uber and other app style cabs, more cycling, hacked bus routes, reduced frequency, changing shopping habits, less people eating out, generally more door to door services which means you don’t have to leave your home.
Many examples of shuttle buses being used privately for office and education services.
One can only hope the electric bus, will encourage more people to use them. If people want to be carbon free or neutral, then use the bus more.
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 23, 2020 10:05:52 GMT
There are many reasons why people in London are using buses less and less. Lack of affordable housing , increased congestion, night tube, Uber and other app style cabs, more cycling, hacked bus routes, reduced frequency, changing shopping habits, less people eating out, generally more door to door services which means you don’t have to leave your home. Many examples of shuttle buses being used privately for office and education services. One can only hope the electric bus, will encourage more people to use them. If people want to be carbon free or neutral, then use the bus more. the only way to be truly carbon neutral or free would be to walk. Even cycling is 100% carbon neutral, down to the manufacture of the bicycle and wear from tyres and brakes. No electric vehicle is carbon neutral.
|
|
|
Post by SILENCED on Jan 23, 2020 10:14:48 GMT
There are many reasons why people in London are using buses less and less. Lack of affordable housing , increased congestion, night tube, Uber and other app style cabs, more cycling, hacked bus routes, reduced frequency, changing shopping habits, less people eating out, generally more door to door services which means you don’t have to leave your home. Many examples of shuttle buses being used privately for office and education services. One can only hope the electric bus, will encourage more people to use them. If people want to be carbon free or neutral, then use the bus more. the only way to be truly carbon neutral or free would be to walk. Even cycling is 100% carbon neutral, down to the manufacture of the bicycle and wear from tyres and brakes. No electric vehicle is carbon neutral. Even walking is not carbon neutral ... 1, you need energy (food to walk), 2, increases breathing producing more carbon dioxide, 3, soles of shoes wear out, where do all those bits go to, and the need of replacing/disposal. Human beings are not Carbon zero, so how the hell the planet can be Carbon zero without wiping out the species I have no idea.
|
|