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Post by greenboy on Jun 14, 2020 5:12:29 GMT
Vanity project? The WCML cannot be upgraded it's at full capacity. It’s a vanity project, an expensive one that destroys ancient woodland, it’s a waste in my opinion it’ll be expensive fares and leisure travellers will be shafted by longer journeys on the WCML while businessmen will get quicker journeys because they can afford it. If it gets cut back to Birmingham it won’t be a loss By that logic you could say any rail project is a vanity project. It will allow better services to be run on the existing WCML.
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Post by route53 on Jun 14, 2020 9:26:27 GMT
It’s a vanity project, an expensive one that destroys ancient woodland, it’s a waste in my opinion it’ll be expensive fares and leisure travellers will be shafted by longer journeys on the WCML while businessmen will get quicker journeys because they can afford it. If it gets cut back to Birmingham it won’t be a loss By that logic you could say any rail project is a vanity project. It will allow better services to be run on the existing WCML. Not all rail projects are vanity projects, CrossRail isn’t as it’s going to free up space on several tube lines, most notably the Central, District, Piccadilly, Jubilee and the Woolwich branch of the DLR, plus national rail lines like GWML, GEML and the North Kent Line. HS2 is will aid the WCML somewhat but it will be premium prices, and it’s whole aim was to get businessmen to and from London for meetings and work. It will cut through ancient woodland and green spaces, and in times when we ship be more concerned with the environment i hope HS2 does get cut back to Birmingham it’s bad enough it went through at all
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Post by greenboy on Jun 14, 2020 9:54:19 GMT
By that logic you could say any rail project is a vanity project. It will allow better services to be run on the existing WCML. Not all rail projects are vanity projects, CrossRail isn’t as it’s going to free up space on several tube lines, most notably the Central, District, Piccadilly, Jubilee and the Woolwich branch of the DLR, plus national rail lines like GWML, GEML and the North Kent Line. HS2 is will aid the WCML somewhat but it will be premium prices, and it’s whole aim was to get businessmen to and from London for meetings and work. It will cut through ancient woodland and green spaces, and in times when we ship be more concerned with the environment i hope HS2 does get cut back to Birmingham it’s bad enough it went through at all I'm certainly not suggesting environmental issues should be ignored but to coin a phrase...... you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs and it's better than spending money on constantly widening motorways which just encourages more car usage and HS2 isn't being built just for businessmen.
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 14, 2020 10:05:46 GMT
By that logic you could say any rail project is a vanity project. It will allow better services to be run on the existing WCML. Not all rail projects are vanity projects, CrossRail isn’t as it’s going to free up space on several tube lines, most notably the Central, District, Piccadilly, Jubilee and the Woolwich branch of the DLR, plus national rail lines like GWML, GEML and the North Kent Line. HS2 is will aid the WCML somewhat but it will be premium prices, and it’s whole aim was to get businessmen to and from London for meetings and work. It will cut through ancient woodland and green spaces, and in times when we ship be more concerned with the environment i hope HS2 does get cut back to Birmingham it’s bad enough it went through at all Has it been confirmed it will be at a premium at I was on the understanding all of the faster inter city services, ones that don't stop at the likes of Milton Keynes etc will be divert to HS2. Additionally your reasoning why Crossrail is not a vanity project could easily be used to argue HS2 is not one, as it will free up capacity on the WCML that is full, and that is the main reason for it. If it suits your agenda to say it is just for businessmen, feel free to say it. What would you have said if you were around at the time of building the original railways? Personally I can not see it getting scrapped as many of the northern Conservative gains are constituencies that will gain, and political damage from scrapping it back to just Birmingham will be huge, besides making having a short section of high speed track pretty useless. You need stage 2 for all the benefits of Stage 1 to be fully utilized.
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Post by route53 on Jun 15, 2020 9:12:48 GMT
Not all rail projects are vanity projects, CrossRail isn’t as it’s going to free up space on several tube lines, most notably the Central, District, Piccadilly, Jubilee and the Woolwich branch of the DLR, plus national rail lines like GWML, GEML and the North Kent Line. HS2 is will aid the WCML somewhat but it will be premium prices, and it’s whole aim was to get businessmen to and from London for meetings and work. It will cut through ancient woodland and green spaces, and in times when we ship be more concerned with the environment i hope HS2 does get cut back to Birmingham it’s bad enough it went through at all Has it been confirmed it will be at a premium at I was on the understanding all of the faster inter city services, ones that don't stop at the likes of Milton Keynes etc will be divert to HS2. Additionally your reasoning why Crossrail is not a vanity project could easily be used to argue HS2 is not one, as it will free up capacity on the WCML that is full, and that is the main reason for it. If it suits your agenda to say it is just for businessmen, feel free to say it. What would you have said if you were around at the time of building the original railways? Personally I can not see it getting scrapped as many of the northern Conservative gains are constituencies that will gain, and political damage from scrapping it back to just Birmingham will be huge, besides making having a short section of high speed track pretty useless. You need stage 2 for all the benefits of Stage 1 to be fully utilized. You can not compare attitudes to when railways were first built in the 1800s to now in the 21st century, we know more now bc about the ecology. We shouldn’t destroy ancient woodland or green spaces just for some fancy new train set, especially if our economy isn’t going that well at the moment, and especially if people’s working habits will change, I’ve never once heard the case for HS2 being about leisure travellers, it’s always been about business. HS2 will end up being a white elephant, I’m not concerned with duplicating the WCML, I’m more concerned about spending our money wisely, and the environment, I have family up in Buckinghamshire and the line will cut through green space and farm lands near Waddeston it’s a beautiful part of the world that will be ruined by a fancy train set.
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Post by route53 on Jun 18, 2020 22:43:31 GMT
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jun 28, 2020 9:46:16 GMT
Given that New Cross and Lewisham are already served by rail but Camberwell is not, I feel that the Bakerloo Line should be extended there instead.
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Post by greenboy on Jun 28, 2020 10:49:26 GMT
Given that New Cross and Lewisham are already served by rail but Camberwell is not, I feel that the Bakerloo Line should be extended there instead. There is of course Denmark Hill and Loughborough Junction although a new station in Camberwell Station Road would be ideal.
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Post by rif153 on Jun 28, 2020 14:12:35 GMT
Given that New Cross and Lewisham are already served by rail but Camberwell is not, I feel that the Bakerloo Line should be extended there instead. There is of course Denmark Hill and Loughborough Junction although a new station in Camberwell Station Road would be ideal. Agreed, a station there would be perfect for dealing with demand heading towards Elephant & Castle and the City of London and would really help take some pressure of bus routes along Walworth Road.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jun 28, 2020 14:25:00 GMT
In particular greenboy and rif153 I reckon Camberwell is the largest area of London, especially inner London, without a rail station of any kind within the immediate proximity.
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Post by greenboy on Jul 7, 2020 9:53:19 GMT
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Post by ADH45258 on Jul 7, 2020 22:45:53 GMT
In particular greenboy and rif153 I reckon Camberwell is the largest area of London, especially inner London, without a rail station of any kind within the immediate proximity. Camberwell does have Loughborough Junction and Denmark Hill stations nearby, though a new station would be useful to serve the area north of Camberwell Green. The former Camberwell Station site is quite close to Loughborough Junction. I think a new Thameslink station would be more useful located around Wyndham Road, though this may be more difficult to construct.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 7, 2020 23:33:17 GMT
In particular greenboy and rif153 I reckon Camberwell is the largest area of London, especially inner London, without a rail station of any kind within the immediate proximity. Camberwell does have Loughborough Junction and Denmark Hill stations nearby, though a new station would be useful to serve the area north of Camberwell Green. The former Camberwell Station site is quite close to Loughborough Junction. I think a new Thameslink station would be more useful located around Wyndham Road, though this may be more difficult to construct. Most certainly would be difficult especially given that similar plans for a East Brixton station to be resurrected has constantly been suggested and subsequently had a line put through it due to being situated on a viaduct like with Camberwell and arguably, there is a bigger case for Brixton given it's a more populated area and the interchange possibilities mainly with the Victoria Line and local buses. Of course, East Brixton doesn't make the list because it would be for the London Overground which the list doesn't cover. For me, the Bakerloo extension would of been the best idea where at Elephant, allow it to split with the proposed extension to Lewisham as currently planned (if it comes to fruition) and a branch serving Camberwell, Brixton terminating at East Croydon via Tulse Hill, West Norwood, Streatham, Norbury, Thornton Heath & West Croydon
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Post by route53 on Jul 9, 2020 22:26:07 GMT
Camberwell does have Loughborough Junction and Denmark Hill stations nearby, though a new station would be useful to serve the area north of Camberwell Green. The former Camberwell Station site is quite close to Loughborough Junction. I think a new Thameslink station would be more useful located around Wyndham Road, though this may be more difficult to construct. Most certainly would be difficult especially given that similar plans for a East Brixton station to be resurrected has constantly been suggested and subsequently had a line put through it due to being situated on a viaduct like with Camberwell and arguably, there is a bigger case for Brixton given it's a more populated area and the interchange possibilities mainly with the Victoria Line and local buses. Of course, East Brixton doesn't make the list because it would be for the London Overground which the list doesn't cover. For me, the Bakerloo extension would of been the best idea where at Elephant, allow it to split with the proposed extension to Lewisham as currently planned (if it comes to fruition) and a branch serving Camberwell, Brixton terminating at East Croydon via Tulse Hill, West Norwood, Streatham, Norbury, Thornton Heath & West Croydon A Croydon extension would be better achieved by extending the Victoria line rather than the Bakerloo. I do hope a Camberwell extension does go ahead
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Post by route53 on Jul 9, 2020 22:29:30 GMT
Read an article recently that due to Covid more people are moving to the outer suburbs, zones 1-4 aren’t becoming hotspots anymore, this should surely warrant a timetable change?
My hope is that faster services will return to many lines and an end to the all stops suburban metro routes that stretch out to Medway & Thanet
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