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Post by LondonNorthern on Sept 6, 2021 16:52:46 GMT
I don't really know much about Harold Hill but I would increase the running time on the service around Gallows Corner. The A12 can be a nightmare road to navigate sometimes especially when creeping up to the lights and turning out onto the A12 towards Gooshays Drive. The running times on the 497 isn't really an issue even with the route ''liven up'' to Dagnam Park Square as it still have about 10 mins of stand time there and the 497 doesn't really suffer from the A12 as some of the routes in the area does, while turning out from Whitelands Way onto crossing the A12 from Gallows Corner Tesco does sometimes have queues, it doesn't need any addiotnal running time to it.
Increasing the running time just for the odd queues would just end up having more regulation for the times there isn't any traffic in particular for a low frequency route which is the last thing the 497 needs for it to gain more usage.
Fairs
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Post by WH241 on Sept 6, 2021 16:56:56 GMT
Daft question maybe but why don't buses already run in service to the stand?
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Post by vjaska on Sept 6, 2021 17:45:43 GMT
I don't really know much about Harold Hill but I would increase the running time on the service around Gallows Corner. The A12 can be a nightmare road to navigate sometimes especially when creeping up to the lights and turning out onto the A12 towards Gooshays Drive. The running times on the 497 isn't really an issue even with the route ''liven up'' to Dagnam Park Square as it still have about 10 mins of stand time there and the 497 doesn't really suffer from the A12 as some of the routes in the area does, while turning out from Whitelands Way onto crossing the A12 from Gallows Corner Tesco does sometimes have queues, it doesn't need any addiotnal running time to it. Increasing the running time just for the odd queues would just end up having more regulation for the times there isn't any traffic in particular for a low frequency route which is the last thing the 497 needs for it to gain more usage.
I don’t know if you agree (interested to hear your thoughts) but from the one ride I’ve had on it (so a tiny sample and was in between the 1st & 2nd lockdown), it seemed like it had too much running time and that was despite the awful traffic that day when crossing the A12.
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Post by evergreenadam on Sept 6, 2021 17:58:52 GMT
The running times on the 497 isn't really an issue even with the route ''liven up'' to Dagnam Park Square as it still have about 10 mins of stand time there and the 497 doesn't really suffer from the A12 as some of the routes in the area does, while turning out from Whitelands Way onto crossing the A12 from Gallows Corner Tesco does sometimes have queues, it doesn't need any addiotnal running time to it. Increasing the running time just for the odd queues would just end up having more regulation for the times there isn't any traffic in particular for a low frequency route which is the last thing the 497 needs for it to gain more usage.
I don’t know if you agree (interested to hear your thoughts) but from the one ride I’ve had on it (so a tiny sample and was in between the 1st & 2nd lockdown), it seemed like it had too much running time and that was despite the awful traffic that day when crossing the A12. Did you have many fellow passengers? I note TfL blame COVID-19 rather than the late opening of Crossrail, which is rather a convenient excuse.
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Post by busoccultation on Sept 6, 2021 18:20:49 GMT
The running times on the 497 isn't really an issue even with the route ''liven up'' to Dagnam Park Square as it still have about 10 mins of stand time there and the 497 doesn't really suffer from the A12 as some of the routes in the area does, while turning out from Whitelands Way onto crossing the A12 from Gallows Corner Tesco does sometimes have queues, it doesn't need any addiotnal running time to it. Increasing the running time just for the odd queues would just end up having more regulation for the times there isn't any traffic in particular for a low frequency route which is the last thing the 497 needs for it to gain more usage.
I don’t know if you agree (interested to hear your thoughts) but from the one ride I’ve had on it (so a tiny sample and was in between the 1st & 2nd lockdown), it seemed like it had too much running time and that was despite the awful traffic that day when crossing the A12. So far I only had rode the 497 on its first day and on the round trip I did it did have few moments of where the driver was trying to kill some time at a stop, I did thought that might be a case of not picking/dropping anyone off on that trip and was mostly enthusiasts who were doing the whole route.
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Post by ADH45258 on Sept 6, 2021 20:39:46 GMT
I'm not sure I agree with fully withdrawing the 497, though it never seemed to have much potential when originally introduced. I think the main purposes of the 497 were to provide a service to the Kings Park development (around St Clements Avenue), and as a feeder service to Crossrail (when open) at Harold Wood Station. However, the low frequency is possibly unattractive to passengers, while the very short route length limits journey possibilities, and might have worked better incorporating the new sections into existing routes. Any journey taken on the current 497 would be relatively short, and some passengers may opt to walk, or use more frequent routes such as the 256. And as others have mentioned, it also seems strange that the 497 doesn't continue in service to the stand.
I think the best option here would be to withdraw the 497, but replace some sections with changes to other routes.
With the Kings Park development, it would make sense to have a short extension of the 499 from Gallows Corner Tesco, via St Clements Avenue to Harold Wood Station. This provides a more frequent service, while still linking to the Station, Tesco, and shops at Hilldene Avenue. The 499's routeing could possibly also be amended slightly elsewhere if needed, such as via Ashton Road or Myrtle Road.
Additionally, I would suggest to restructure the 496 slightly in the area. It would run as present from Romford to Faringdon Avenue, then direct to Harold Wood Station, then existing route in reverse to terminate at Dagnam Park Drive. This would make journeys to/from the station more direct.
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Post by evergreenadam on Sept 6, 2021 20:48:48 GMT
I'm not sure I agree with fully withdrawing the 497, though it never seemed to have much potential when originally introduced. I think the main purposes of the 497 were to provide a service to the Kings Park development (around St Clements Avenue), and as a feeder service to Crossrail (when open) at Harold Wood Station. However, the low frequency is possibly unattractive to passengers, while the very short route length limits journey possibilities, and might have worked better incorporating the new sections into existing routes. Any journey taken on the current 497 would be relatively short, and some passengers may opt to walk, or use more frequent routes such as the 256. And as others have mentioned, it also seems strange that the 497 doesn't continue in service to the stand. I think the best option here would be to withdraw the 497, but replace some sections with changes to other routes. With the Kings Park development, it would make sense to have a short extension of the 499 from Gallows Corner Tesco, via St Clements Avenue to Harold Wood Station. This provides a more frequent service, while still linking to the Station, Tesco, and shops at Hilldene Avenue. The 499's routeing could possibly also be amended slightly elsewhere if needed, such as via Ashton Road or Myrtle Road. Additionally, I would suggest to restructure the 496 slightly in the area. It would run as present from Romford to Faringdon Avenue, then direct to Harold Wood Station, then existing route in reverse to terminate at Dagnam Park Drive. This would make journeys to/from the station more direct. [br I agree, probably quicker to walk to the station than wait 30mins for a bus. I wonder whether the route was planned with access to schools in Harold Hill in mind. Otherwise a direct link to Romford would be a more obvious way to generate demand.
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Post by SILENCED on Sept 6, 2021 20:51:28 GMT
Just love some of these comments. It is in danger of being withdrawn as demand is nowhere near matching supply ... so the solutions suggested ... increase supply!!,
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 6, 2021 21:04:34 GMT
*promises a new rail line* *introduces route to feed rail line* *rail line doesn't open on time* *claims nobody is using it so will withdraw the route* *Rail line still isn't open*
So the 497 could potentially come and go, while the 304 still hasn't seen service at all.
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Post by SILENCED on Sept 6, 2021 21:09:51 GMT
*promises a new rail line* *introduces route to feed rail line* *rail line doesn't open on time* *claims nobody is using it so will withdraw the route* *Rail line still isn't open* So the 497 could potentially come and go, while the 304 still hasn't seen service at all. Was it really a Crossrail feeder route, seems to go nowhere near a station?
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 6, 2021 21:19:19 GMT
*promises a new rail line* *introduces route to feed rail line* *rail line doesn't open on time* *claims nobody is using it so will withdraw the route* *Rail line still isn't open* So the 497 could potentially come and go, while the 304 still hasn't seen service at all. Was it really a Crossrail feeder route, seems to go nowhere near a station? It terminates at Harold Wood Station.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 6, 2021 21:30:23 GMT
I don’t know if you agree (interested to hear your thoughts) but from the one ride I’ve had on it (so a tiny sample and was in between the 1st & 2nd lockdown), it seemed like it had too much running time and that was despite the awful traffic that day when crossing the A12. Did you have many fellow passengers? I note TfL blame COVID-19 rather than the late opening of Crossrail, which is rather a convenient excuse. A few got on at the first stop on Hilldene Avenue, then a few more by the shops and then we dropped them off along the backs roads. Two young girls got on a bit later (think they went to the Tesco) and one or two boarded at Gallows Corner Tesco to go to the Kings Park estate, was just me who got off at Harold Wood station
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Post by SILENCED on Sept 6, 2021 21:43:09 GMT
Was it really a Crossrail feeder route, seems to go nowhere near a station? It terminates at Harold Wood Station. So it terminates at a station on the Liverpool Street mainline and still attracts negligible custom!
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Post by enviroPB on Sept 7, 2021 0:15:07 GMT
Daft question maybe but why don't buses already run in service to the stand? I'm fairly certain the original plan was for the 497 to stand on Hilldene Avenue near Gooshays Drive. Someone at TfL probably rejected the idea as it's not that appropriate for drivers; why create a stand & facilities when there's one close by at Dagnam Park Square? I do feel bad for the position the 497 is in, the main attraction of Crossrail hasn't come to be yet but the chop is being considered. As well as the frequency being unpopular with punters, there's no effective way to advertise the 497 as most of the route is hail & ride. I'm sure as well that because of the awkward stand arrangements in Harold Hill, customers are likely unsure if the 497 is coming or not by not seeing the bus standing at/near the first stop.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 7, 2021 0:22:44 GMT
Daft question maybe but why don't buses already run in service to the stand? I'm fairly certain the original plan was for the 497 to stand on Hilldene Avenue near Gooshays Drive. Someone at TfL probably rejected the idea as it's not that appropriate for drivers; why create a stand & facilities when there's one close by at Dagnam Park Square? I do feel bad for the position the 497 is in, the main attraction of Crossrail hasn't come to be yet but the chop is being considered. As well as the frequency being unpopular with punters, there's no effective way to advertise the 497 as most of the route is hail & ride. I'm sure as well that because of the awkward stand arrangements in Harold Hill, customers are likely unsure if the 497 is coming or not by not seeing the bus standing at/near the first stop. The first stop for the 497 towards Harold Wood has a countdown screen which does display the 497 on there. I suspect an extension in service to Dagnam Park Square and a frequency increase would give it a bit of a boost along with Crossrail turning up.
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