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Post by uakari on Apr 12, 2023 13:18:12 GMT
Some good news to hear. Being Sadiq Khan is a Labour mayor does give some optimism it can be implemented for a political gain. Though sadly, there may be an obstruction to getting corporation with HCC if the mayor doesn't want to fully fund a cross border service based on how things are looking currently. Unfortunately, to Sadiq and TfL, London ends at North Finchley, and to HCC, Herts end at Hatfield, so tough luck everyone in-between.
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Post by twobellstogo on Apr 12, 2023 14:26:14 GMT
I think somewhere the 610 was mentioned. With the 298 also doing Potters Bar to Cockfosters, does the 610 really need to do the same, and can that not go to Barnet instead? Do forgive me if I’m talking bilge, it’s not my area at all.
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Post by uakari on Apr 12, 2023 14:29:35 GMT
I think somewhere the 610 was mentioned. With the 298 also doing Potters Bar to Cockfosters, does the 610 really need to do the same, and can that not go to Barnet instead? Do forgive me if I’m talking bilge, it’s not my area at all. The trouble is that one of the main purposes of the 610 is as a feeder bus to the University of Hertfordshire, and Barnet already has that separately in the form of the 614, which Uno are also not interested in diverting via PB.
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Post by wirewiper on Apr 12, 2023 14:34:37 GMT
I think somewhere the 610 was mentioned. With the 298 also doing Potters Bar to Cockfosters, does the 610 really need to do the same, and can that not go to Barnet instead? Do forgive me if I’m talking bilge, it’s not my area at all. The 610 provides a direct link from Cockfosters Station to the University of Hertfordshire sites at Hatfield. It is operated commercially to meet the needs of University students and staff (which is fair enough really, as the University owns the bus company!). Clearly they see no need to divert it to Barnet and no-one has seen any need to incentivise them to do that.
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Post by twobellstogo on Apr 12, 2023 14:51:26 GMT
I think somewhere the 610 was mentioned. With the 298 also doing Potters Bar to Cockfosters, does the 610 really need to do the same, and can that not go to Barnet instead? Do forgive me if I’m talking bilge, it’s not my area at all. The 610 provides a direct link from Cockfosters Station to the University of Hertfordshire sites at Hatfield. It is operated commercially to meet the needs of University students and staff (which is fair enough really, as the University owns the bus company!). Clearly they see no need to divert it to Barnet and no-one has seen any need to incentivise them to do that. I’m talking bilge again 😂 thanks, wirewiper!
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Post by northlondon83 on Apr 12, 2023 15:07:09 GMT
I think somewhere the 610 was mentioned. With the 298 also doing Potters Bar to Cockfosters, does the 610 really need to do the same, and can that not go to Barnet instead? Do forgive me if I’m talking bilge, it’s not my area at all. The 610 provides a direct link from Cockfosters Station to the University of Hertfordshire sites at Hatfield. It is operated commercially to meet the needs of University students and staff (which is fair enough really, as the University owns the bus company!). Clearly they see no need to divert it to Barnet and no-one has seen any need to incentivise them to do that. there's also the 614 serving Barnet however I don't believe it stops at Potters Bar To be honest tfl aren't going to reintroduce the 84 or extend a route to Potters Bar. People are expected to make do with using alternatives like the 384 and 298 Would be nice to see more non tfl bus routes operate in Barnet, you don't really get that many in London, quite a few in Uxbridge, Heathrow and Kingston but as far as I'm aware not much elsewhere
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Post by northlondon83 on Apr 12, 2023 15:08:46 GMT
The 610 provides a direct link from Cockfosters Station to the University of Hertfordshire sites at Hatfield. It is operated commercially to meet the needs of University students and staff (which is fair enough really, as the University owns the bus company!). Clearly they see no need to divert it to Barnet and no-one has seen any need to incentivise them to do that. I’m talking bilge again 😂 thanks, wirewiper! I'm not local either so I don't know how much demand there would be but withdrawing the 610 from Cockfosters could be unpopular with students
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Post by WH241 on Apr 12, 2023 16:51:19 GMT
I might sound skeptical but do wonder how many in the photo would use a bus service if a service ran. Feels more like a photo opportunity than anything else.....
This from elsewhere shows how low usage was.
According to TfL figures, the transport authority must find savings of £740million in the 2023/24 financial year.
The spokesperson said figures “consistently” showed fewer than nine passengers crossed the Greater London boundary on the 84 on a typical day.
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Post by uakari on Apr 12, 2023 18:22:17 GMT
I might sound skeptical but do wonder how many in the photo would use a bus service if a service ran. Feels more like a photo opportunity than anything else.....
This from elsewhere shows how low usage was.
According to TfL figures, the transport authority must find savings of £740million in the 2023/24 financial year.
The spokesperson said figures “consistently” showed fewer than nine passengers crossed the Greater London boundary on the 84 on a typical day.
That 'nine passengers per day' figure is an outright lie. They used figures from lockdown and Metroline colluded in this to justify withdrawing the route. Easily nine passengers per day on a single bus, despite how unreliable Metroline made it deliberately. I don't know, why don't you ask all the people who bothered to make handmade signs, including a group of schoolkids who bothered to turn up in the Easter holidays and patients at Potters Bar and Barnet Hospitals, if they would use it. Maybe for the politicians it was a photo opportunity but not for others.
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Post by southlondon413 on Apr 12, 2023 18:30:56 GMT
I might sound skeptical but do wonder how many in the photo would use a bus service if a service ran. Feels more like a photo opportunity than anything else.....
This from elsewhere shows how low usage was.
According to TfL figures, the transport authority must find savings of £740million in the 2023/24 financial year.
The spokesperson said figures “consistently” showed fewer than nine passengers crossed the Greater London boundary on the 84 on a typical day.
That 'nine passengers per day' figure is an outright lie. They used figures from lockdown and Metroline colluded in this to justify withdrawing the route. Easily nine passengers per day on a single bus, despite how unreliable Metroline made it deliberately. I don't know, why don't you ask all the people who bothered to make handmade signs, including a group of schoolkids who bothered to turn up in the Easter holidays and patients at Potters Bar and Barnet Hospitals, if they would use it. Maybe for the politicians it was a photo opportunity but not for others. Those are some pretty bold unsubstantiated claims. So explain why Sullivans weren’t willing to take on the 84 as a whole if the demand was so strong?
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Post by uakari on Apr 12, 2023 18:41:26 GMT
That 'nine passengers per day' figure is an outright lie. They used figures from lockdown and Metroline colluded in this to justify withdrawing the route. Easily nine passengers per day on a single bus, despite how unreliable Metroline made it deliberately. I don't know, why don't you ask all the people who bothered to make handmade signs, including a group of schoolkids who bothered to turn up in the Easter holidays and patients at Potters Bar and Barnet Hospitals, if they would use it. Maybe for the politicians it was a photo opportunity but not for others. Those are some pretty bold unsubstantiated claims. So explain why Sullivans weren’t willing to take on the 84 as a whole if the demand was so strong? Because they would have to pay TfL to operate in 'their' area, and possibly be forced to accept hopper fares without any recompense. TfL also wouldn't agree an LLSA with them. The 'nine passengers per day' figure is also bold and unsubstantiated. TfL have never released the figures they are supposedly basing that on. It is also said by someone who has personally lied to me, so I know it's not trustworthy. I posted a potentially positive news item and all a lot of you want on here is to drag everything and everyone who is trying to do something back down again. No wonder so many posters have left this forum.
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Post by southlondon413 on Apr 12, 2023 18:56:00 GMT
Those are some pretty bold unsubstantiated claims. So explain why Sullivans weren’t willing to take on the 84 as a whole if the demand was so strong? Because they would have to pay TfL to operate in their area, and possibly be forced to accept hopper fares without any recompense. TfL also wouldn't agree an LLSA with them. The 'nine passengers per day' figure is also bold and unsubstantiated. TfL have never released the figures they are supposedly basing that on. It is also a quote from Geoff Hobbs, who has personally lied to me, so I know he's not trustworthy. I posted a potentially positive news item and all a lot of you want on here is to drag everything and everyone who is trying to do something back down again. No wonder so many posters have left this forum. Surely if the demand is there then the £250 fee for the LSP is nothing? The forced hopper fare is a complete myth and without TfL oyster readers would be impossible for the operator to verify. TfL is under no obligation to release its figures but I bet if you did a FOI request they’d probably provide them. As for the LLSA they haven’t existed since 2005, maybe, so entirely irrelevant as I believe they mostly were used to match TfL fares within the LT/TfL zone where there were parallel LT/TfL routes and not beyond it. I think this is just going around in circles, the 84 is a forgone conclusion because as they say use it or lose it and as they didn’t…
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Post by uakari on Apr 12, 2023 19:03:59 GMT
Because they would have to pay TfL to operate in their area, and possibly be forced to accept hopper fares without any recompense. TfL also wouldn't agree an LLSA with them. The 'nine passengers per day' figure is also bold and unsubstantiated. TfL have never released the figures they are supposedly basing that on. It is also a quote from Geoff Hobbs, who has personally lied to me, so I know he's not trustworthy. I posted a potentially positive news item and all a lot of you want on here is to drag everything and everyone who is trying to do something back down again. No wonder so many posters have left this forum. Surely if the demand is there then the £250 fee for the LSP is nothing? The forced hopper fare is a complete myth and without TfL oyster readers would be impossible for the operator to verify. TfL is under no obligation to release its figures but I bet if you did a FOI request they’d probably provide them. As for the LLSA they haven’t existed since 2005, maybe, so entirely irrelevant as I believe they mostly were used to match TfL fares within the LT/TfL zone where there were parallel LT/TfL routes and not beyond it. I think this is just going around in circles, the 84 is a forgone conclusion because as they say use it or lose it and as they didn’t… Lol, the 84 was under LLSA until 2012 so do carry on. Also the 'figures' weren't collected by by TfL, were they? Is Metroline subject to FOI? I'm sorry if you feel you're 'going round in circles'; I'm certainly not, providing interesting updates in the relevant threads. If this upsets you, you may wish to avoid them in the future, because the issue isn't going away.
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Post by cardinal on Apr 12, 2023 19:05:03 GMT
I might sound skeptical but do wonder how many in the photo would use a bus service if a service ran. Feels more like a photo opportunity than anything else.....
This from elsewhere shows how low usage was.
According to TfL figures, the transport authority must find savings of £740million in the 2023/24 financial year.
The spokesperson said figures “consistently” showed fewer than nine passengers crossed the Greater London boundary on the 84 on a typical day.
That 'nine passengers per day' figure is an outright lie. They used figures from lockdown and Metroline colluded in this to justify withdrawing the route. Easily nine passengers per day on a single bus, despite how unreliable Metroline made it deliberately. I don't know, why don't you ask all the people who bothered to make handmade signs, including a group of schoolkids who bothered to turn up in the Easter holidays and patients at Potters Bar and Barnet Hospitals, if they would use it. Maybe for the politicians it was a photo opportunity but not for others. Nine per day ? That’s a lie. When I last used the 84 to Barnet I’m sure there was at least nine on that single trip. I think the interim solution is a one or two bus localised service linking the two towns. From what I recall as well the St Albans to Potters Bar section was the quietest.
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Post by uakari on Apr 12, 2023 19:12:11 GMT
That 'nine passengers per day' figure is an outright lie. They used figures from lockdown and Metroline colluded in this to justify withdrawing the route. Easily nine passengers per day on a single bus, despite how unreliable Metroline made it deliberately. I don't know, why don't you ask all the people who bothered to make handmade signs, including a group of schoolkids who bothered to turn up in the Easter holidays and patients at Potters Bar and Barnet Hospitals, if they would use it. Maybe for the politicians it was a photo opportunity but not for others. Nine per day ? That’s a lie. When I last used the 84 to Barnet I’m sure there was at least nine on that single trip. I think the interim solution is a one or two bus localised service linking the two towns. From what I recall as well the St Albans to Potters Bar section was the quietest. Yes, turns out someone already did an FOI and it confirms this. Also that "TfL has not collected recent information on detailed patterns of usage of the route." tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-2501-2122They have so much contempt they don't even think that people will pick them up on their lies.
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