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Post by YY13VKP on Jan 7, 2020 0:28:25 GMT
Really disappointed with the quality of the 278 MMCs. Was on 2010 earlier and the driver had problems getting the doors to open and close, all the panels seem really loose and the bus is rattling loads already. Compare that to a 17-reg 427 MMC I had earlier and didn’t make so much as a squeak. It would seem to me these buses were really rushed together when being built as they did seem to materialise out of nowhere very quickly, and it shows. Compare those to the 207 smart MMCs which are a lot nicer. Whilst this order may have been placed very late prior to the start of the 278, hence there's evidence to support your claim that they may have been "rushed together", surely ADL's quality control measures would have ensured that the bus left the factory without loose panels? MMC's don't usually rattle and they're usually high quality vehicles so quite why this bus is in the state you describe it in, despite it only being on the road for a month is beyond me
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Post by rhys on Jan 7, 2020 0:52:51 GMT
Really disappointed with the quality of the 278 MMCs. Was on 2010 earlier and the driver had problems getting the doors to open and close, all the panels seem really loose and the bus is rattling loads already. Compare that to a 17-reg 427 MMC I had earlier and didn’t make so much as a squeak. It would seem to me these buses were really rushed together when being built as they did seem to materialise out of nowhere very quickly, and it shows. Compare those to the 207 smart MMCs which are a lot nicer. Whilst this order may have been placed very late prior to the start of the 278, hence there's evidence to support your claim that they may have been "rushed together", surely ADL's quality control measures would have ensured that the bus left the factory without loose panels? MMC's don't usually rattle and they're usually high quality vehicles so quite why this bus is in the state you describe it in, despite it only being on the road for a month is beyond me despite the excessive use of plastic interior mouldings, MMCs are definitely decent vehicles, in comparison to what other vehicles are currently available on the market. However, I personally think MMCs do tend to rattle and squeak after they’ve been worn in a bit. In fact I think it’s almost impossible to rule out rattling completely on most larger vehicles
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Post by rj131 on Jan 7, 2020 6:49:54 GMT
Really disappointed with the quality of the 278 MMCs. Was on 2010 earlier and the driver had problems getting the doors to open and close, all the panels seem really loose and the bus is rattling loads already. Compare that to a 17-reg 427 MMC I had earlier and didn’t make so much as a squeak. It would seem to me these buses were really rushed together when being built as they did seem to materialise out of nowhere very quickly, and it shows. Compare those to the 207 smart MMCs which are a lot nicer. Whilst this order may have been placed very late prior to the start of the 278, hence there's evidence to support your claim that they may have been "rushed together", surely ADL's quality control measures would have ensured that the bus left the factory without loose panels? MMC's don't usually rattle and they're usually high quality vehicles so quite why this bus is in the state you describe it in, despite it only being on the road for a month is beyond me Yes I was very surprised as well which is why I bought it up, and I totally agree with you the MMC is my favourite bus and is usually very high quality. Now you mention it, EH339 which I also went on around a month after entering service was one of the finest vehicles I’d ever been on (apart from the ISA), and 2580 I had on the 407 which I did directly afterwards felt like it had just come out of the factory despite being two years old. So I don’t know what’s happened with these 278 ones, I do think there was an element of ‘haste’ with these buses as I agree they shouldn’t be like that at all. The doors got jammed on two occasions and wouldn’t close and it the bus sounded like it was falling apart when going over a significant bump.
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Post by allentc on Jan 7, 2020 7:50:52 GMT
despite the excessive use of plastic interior mouldings, MMCs are definitely decent vehicles, in comparison to what other vehicles are currently available on the market. However, I personally think MMCs do tend to rattle and squeak after they’ve been worn in a bit. In fact I think it’s almost impossible to rule out rattling completely on most larger vehicles I too have found the E400 MMCs worse for squeaking and creaking than the previous gen non-MMC E400s. The cove panels and pillar mouldings particularly on the lower deck around the rear door and staircase creak simultaneously as the body flexes going over bumps/potholes or even going around corners. There is no such issue on the non-MMCs. Strangely the issue doesn't affect the E200MMC so either the fixings and mountings are different or because it doesn't have a gaping hole in the floor (staircase) the structure is more rigid and less prone to flexing than its double deck brother.
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Post by redexpress on Jan 7, 2020 11:01:48 GMT
despite the excessive use of plastic interior mouldings, MMCs are definitely decent vehicles, in comparison to what other vehicles are currently available on the market. However, I personally think MMCs do tend to rattle and squeak after they’ve been worn in a bit. In fact I think it’s almost impossible to rule out rattling completely on most larger vehicles I too have found the E400 MMCs worse for squeaking and creaking than the previous gen non-MMC E400s. The cove panels and pillar mouldings particularly on the lower deck around the rear door and staircase creak simultaneously as the body flexes going over bumps/potholes or even going around corners. There is no such issue on the non-MMCs. Strangely the issue doesn't affect the E200MMC so either the fixings and mountings are different or because it doesn't have a gaping hole in the floor (staircase) the structure is more rigid and less prone to flexing than its double deck brother. I've always assumed that the source of the creaks and squeaks is the quick-release glazing system that ADL pioneered on the MMC. It was supposed to look almost as good as bonded glazing but with the ability to change damaged panes within a matter of minutes, unlike bonded glazing which requires several hours to cure. Classic E400s with bog-standard gasket glazing don't creak anywhere near as much.
It's noticeable that the high-spec MMCs that ADL have been building recently (obviously not for TfL work) have proper bonded glazing, so perhaps that's an admission that the quick-release glazing isn't as good as they'd hoped.
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Post by LK65EBO on Jan 7, 2020 20:51:33 GMT
despite the excessive use of plastic interior mouldings, MMCs are definitely decent vehicles, in comparison to what other vehicles are currently available on the market. However, I personally think MMCs do tend to rattle and squeak after they’ve been worn in a bit. In fact I think it’s almost impossible to rule out rattling completely on most larger vehicles I too have found the E400 MMCs worse for squeaking and creaking than the previous gen non-MMC E400s. The cove panels and pillar mouldings particularly on the lower deck around the rear door and staircase creak simultaneously as the body flexes going over bumps/potholes or even going around corners. There is no such issue on the non-MMCs. Strangely the issue doesn't affect the E200MMC so either the fixings and mountings are different or because it doesn't have a gaping hole in the floor (staircase) the structure is more rigid and less prone to flexing than its double deck brother. I too have been on an Enviro 400MMc and could hear the same creaking whenever the bus went over bumps on the road - think it was on the 350 when it had Enviro 400MMCs. I think Gemini 3s are better built - I’m judging these on HH Gemini 3s. I have been on every single one of HH VHs and non of them creak. However the 15 reg VHs have bad braking and could easily knock people over. This isn’t the drivers fault however as the day before he got the bad braking VH he got Vh45267 which was absolutely fine.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 7, 2020 23:39:48 GMT
I too have found the E400 MMCs worse for squeaking and creaking than the previous gen non-MMC E400s. The cove panels and pillar mouldings particularly on the lower deck around the rear door and staircase creak simultaneously as the body flexes going over bumps/potholes or even going around corners. There is no such issue on the non-MMCs. Strangely the issue doesn't affect the E200MMC so either the fixings and mountings are different or because it doesn't have a gaping hole in the floor (staircase) the structure is more rigid and less prone to flexing than its double deck brother. I too have been on an Enviro 400MMc and could hear the same creaking whenever the bus went over bumps on the road - think it was on the 350 when it had Enviro 400MMCs. I think Gemini 3s are better built - I’m judging these on HH Gemini 3s. I have been on every single one of HH VHs and non of them creak. However the 15 reg VHs have bad braking and could easily knock people over. This isn’t the drivers fault however as the day before he got the bad braking VH he got Vh45267 which was absolutely fine. The Gemini3's rattle as well as pretty much all modern buses - the creaking noises on MMC's isn't too distracting but does occur quite often, still think the MMC is head and shoulders above Gemini3's personally except for the ride.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2020 7:34:44 GMT
I too have been on an Enviro 400MMc and could hear the same creaking whenever the bus went over bumps on the road - think it was on the 350 when it had Enviro 400MMCs. I think Gemini 3s are better built - I’m judging these on HH Gemini 3s. I have been on every single one of HH VHs and non of them creak. However the 15 reg VHs have bad braking and could easily knock people over. This isn’t the drivers fault however as the day before he got the bad braking VH he got Vh45267 which was absolutely fine. The Gemini3's rattle as well as pretty much all modern buses - the creaking noises on MMC's isn't too distracting but does occur quite often, still think the MMC is head and shoulders above Gemini3's personally except for the ride. I have to admit I wasn’t a fan of the first model enviro 400, it always felt flimsy and poorly designed compared to the, IMO, more solid Geminis. But the MMC is well designed and functional. I have always thought, from a business perspective, the smartest decision ADL ever made to include its customers across the country in the design process so the ended up with a product they wanted. Not just for the industry like the G3 but designed by them as well.
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Post by allentc on Jan 8, 2020 7:57:40 GMT
...still think the MMC is head and shoulders above Gemini3's personally except for the ride. Yes, suspension/ride quality is something ADL doesn't seem to have nailed yet with its double deck integrals. The non-MMC E400s have terrible ride quality crashing sharply over bumps. The suspension feels very firm with little "give".
The E400MMC is much better with less harshness coming through. But in my opinion a Volvo chassis still offers the best ride quality with a more compliant, softer suspension set up that filters out the sharpness of the bumps.
That said, the biggest improvement has been the E200MMC over the non-MMC E200 probably because they have reverted to 4 airbag suspension on the rear as opposed to 2 before.
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Post by galwhv69 on Jan 9, 2020 8:11:18 GMT
8524 still has a Travel London roof code lol (TVL 8524)
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Post by cl54 on Jan 9, 2020 14:49:38 GMT
...still think the MMC is head and shoulders above Gemini3's personally except for the ride. Yes, suspension/ride quality is something ADL doesn't seem to have nailed yet with its double deck integrals. The non-MMC E400s have terrible ride quality crashing sharply over bumps. The suspension feels very firm with little "give".
The E400MMC is much better with less harshness coming through. But in my opinion a Volvo chassis still offers the best ride quality with a more compliant, softer suspension set up that filters out the sharpness of the bumps.
That said, the biggest improvement has been the E200MMC over the non-MMC E200 probably because they have reverted to 4 airbag suspension on the rear as opposed to 2 before. A lot of the rattles seem to be related to the centre doors either down to the doors themselves or the nearby windows.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 9, 2020 15:34:19 GMT
Yes, suspension/ride quality is something ADL doesn't seem to have nailed yet with its double deck integrals. The non-MMC E400s have terrible ride quality crashing sharply over bumps. The suspension feels very firm with little "give".
The E400MMC is much better with less harshness coming through. But in my opinion a Volvo chassis still offers the best ride quality with a more compliant, softer suspension set up that filters out the sharpness of the bumps.
That said, the biggest improvement has been the E200MMC over the non-MMC E200 probably because they have reverted to 4 airbag suspension on the rear as opposed to 2 before. A lot of the rattles seem to be related to the centre doors either down to the doors themselves or the nearby windows. I agree with those glass panes by the door, they do rattle on numerous different types a hell of a lot.
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Post by YY13VKP on Jan 11, 2020 0:08:38 GMT
I have to say that now that the 407 is double decked, the last few months has probably been the most I've actually used the 407 over the last 5 years ! Goes to show how much I couldn't stand the route especially when those horrid Enviro200's were on it that have now been banished to the 490. Double Deckers have certainly been a marked improvement for the 407, and it also must be said that it's finally got lucky with some decent vehicles again! I would usually prefer a full allocation of MMC's but at least having two different batches of Enviro400's from different era's operating on a regular basis brings some variety back to the route. A common user pool appears to have now been formed with the 407 and the 109 too, and more of the 109's MMC's are beginning to appear more frequently. A 24 hour service would be beneficial now that the route is fully double decked, especially as there was a 24 hour service on New Years Day and would provide an all night service between Purley and Caterham and also relieve some of the pressure off the N68.
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Post by george on Jan 11, 2020 0:12:37 GMT
I have to say that now that the 407 is double decked, the last few months has probably been the most I've actually used the 407 over the last 5 years ! Goes to show how much I couldn't stand the route especially when those horrid Enviro200's were on it that have now been banished to the 490. Double Deckers are certainly a marked improvement for the 407, and it also must be said that it's finally got lucky with some decent vehicles again! I would usually prefer a full allocation of MMC's but at least having two different batches of Enviro400's from different era's operating on a regular basis brings some variety back to the route. A common user pool appears to have now been formed with the 407 and the 109 too, and more of the 109's MMC's are beginning to appear more frequently. I went on the 407 recently on a double decker and the route was very busy, I couldn't even begin to imagine what that route was like in the rush hour with those single decker buses. It's just a shame they've gone to another route thats in dire need of having double deckers.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 11, 2020 0:57:38 GMT
I have to say that now that the 407 is double decked, the last few months has probably been the most I've actually used the 407 over the last 5 years ! Goes to show how much I couldn't stand the route especially when those horrid Enviro200's were on it that have now been banished to the 490. Double Deckers are certainly a marked improvement for the 407, and it also must be said that it's finally got lucky with some decent vehicles again! I would usually prefer a full allocation of MMC's but at least having two different batches of Enviro400's from different era's operating on a regular basis brings some variety back to the route. A common user pool appears to have now been formed with the 407 and the 109 too, and more of the 109's MMC's are beginning to appear more frequently. I went on the 407 recently on a double decker and the route was very busy, I couldn't even begin to imagine what that route was like in the rush hour with those single decker buses. It's just a shame they've gone to another route thats in dire need of having double deckers. It can be quite bad to use the 407 and it's not just a recent thing - I used it a lot under Arriva when TC had a lovely pool of LF vehicles (generally speaking) and the 407 would be packed though Arriva would use deckers every now and then and not just on the school journey either - sadly I never got to ride a DLA or DW on the 407 but did tick off a PDL, ENL, ADL & DWL on route before it departed TC
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