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Post by wirewiper on Feb 5, 2024 17:22:18 GMT
I'm not sure the Overground though linking into Barking would be the best option though. I can't see it being hugely popular to travel on the C2C or District Line to Barking then change trains to come under the water. I'd imagine most would end up preferring the bus to either Abbey Wood or Woolwich. Personally if there is a real desire to improve things to Thamesmead then a new tunnel if need be should be dug from Woolwich with a new Elizabeth line station at maybe Plumstead and 2 new stops in Thamesmead. I thought the link is more to provide connections across the water rather than solely for people wanting Central London as Abbey Wood isn't far away (I know DLR will serve Custom House for interchange but Abbey Wood gives better chance of getting on board the Elizabeth line plus has other connections via Southeastern). My thinking is the Overground would open up things like job opportunities for people either side of the river where suddenly, a job in Thamesmead/Woolwich or a job in Barking & Dagenham becomes far more feasible as opposed to now. Taking in Beckton Riverside as well and opening the area up to redevelopment is an important part of the Business Case for the new extension. The whole thing reads effectively as a funding bid from TfL to Government. It's ironic to think that back in the 1970s London Transport was proposing that the new Jubilee Line be extended to Thamesmead. As proposed it would have crossed the Thames five times east of Fenchurch Street which was the planned terminus originally.
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Post by WH241 on Feb 5, 2024 17:45:27 GMT
Would there really be that much demand for a train service heading towards Beckton? The problem is where would passengers then head? I can't see many heading to Gallions Reach then westwards as it would probably be quicker for passengers to head for Abbey Wood then the Elizabeth Line.
If the Overground was extended it would at lest link into the Underground and other rail connections at Barking.
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Post by WH241 on Feb 5, 2024 17:49:08 GMT
The Bakerloo extension was also consulted on. When is the Bakerloo extension to Lewisham happening? From the consultation pages :
Next steps
The coronavirus pandemic has had a huge impact on our network and finances. We remain committed to delivering the Bakerloo line extension, however this still depends on a viable funding package being put together.
We will continue discussions with the Government, while being realistic about the funding London could contribute to building an extension over the coming years.
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Post by wirewiper on Feb 5, 2024 17:56:38 GMT
Would there really be that much demand for a train service heading towards Beckton? The problem is where would passengers then head? I can't see many heading to Gallions Reach then westwards as it would probably be quicker for passengers to head for Abbey Wood then the Elizabeth Line.
If the Overground was extended it would at lest link into the Underground and other rail connections at Barking.
The Thamesmead branch would veer off at Gallions Reach, trains would not go to Beckton (Beckton Riverside would be a separate station on the new branch). Trains from Thamesmead would connect with the Elizabeth Line at Custom House, the Jubilee Line at Canning Town, and could potentially operate direct to Stratford & Stratford International, or the City of London at either Tower Gateway or Bank.
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Post by WH241 on Feb 5, 2024 18:40:19 GMT
Would there really be that much demand for a train service heading towards Beckton? The problem is where would passengers then head? I can't see many heading to Gallions Reach then westwards as it would probably be quicker for passengers to head for Abbey Wood then the Elizabeth Line.
If the Overground was extended it would at lest link into the Underground and other rail connections at Barking.
The Thamesmead branch would veer off at Gallions Reach, trains would not go to Beckton (Beckton Riverside would be a separate station on the new branch). Trains from Thamesmead would connect with the Elizabeth Line at Custom House, the Jubilee Line at Canning Town, and could potentially operate direct to Stratford & Stratford International, or the City of London at either Tower Gateway or Bank. Yes that’s why I was saying would passengers really head that way to interchange at Custom House when it would probably be quicker to head to Abbey Wood for Elizabeth Line connection. Be interesting to see if this does actually end progressing.
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Post by wirewiper on Feb 5, 2024 18:55:30 GMT
The Thamesmead branch would veer off at Gallions Reach, trains would not go to Beckton (Beckton Riverside would be a separate station on the new branch). Trains from Thamesmead would connect with the Elizabeth Line at Custom House, the Jubilee Line at Canning Town, and could potentially operate direct to Stratford & Stratford International, or the City of London at either Tower Gateway or Bank. Yes that’s why I was saying would passengers really head that way to interchange at Custom House when it would probably be quicker to head to Abbey Wood for Elizabeth Line connection. Be interesting to see if this does actually end progressing. I don't know - but between Thamesmead and Beckton the course of the Thames is actually south west to north east at that point, so the DLR route may be more direct than you think it is. Also don't forget that opening up Beckton Riverside for development is an integral part of the Business Case for the new extension.
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Post by ADH45258 on Feb 5, 2024 19:05:12 GMT
While I'm sure this extension would be useful, I'm not convinced that it should be prioritised at this time - considering TFL's limited budget, and plenty of other potential changes to the rail network that would be more beneficial.
You can discuss alternative rail lines to serve Thamesmead, but there has already been a lot of investment in the area recently with the Elizabeth Line at Abbey Wood. I don't think you can realistically expect every part of London to have its own station, and Abbey Wood is only a short distance from Thamesmead with plenty of regular bus services there, plus it's the first station on the line and with quite a fast service into Central London (as well as other useful interchanges). Also, Thamesmead is quite a spread out area, so if you build a new station it won't be within walking distance for everyone, many will still rely on a bus to somewhere like Abbey Wood, Plumstead or Woolwich. TFL's proposal for the DLR would also offer some cross-river links, but I think the current Elizabeth Line link from Abbey Wood to Custom House is probably adequate, for connections to places like Beckton. And of course this would presumably mean a lower frequency serving Beckton, if some of the trains have to divert to Thamesmead. If Thamesmead is such a priority for a new station, couldn't TFL have just sent the Elizabeth Line there in the first place, instead of Abbey Wood which already has Southeastern/Thameslink? Could have used the alignment of the Ridgeway footpath for at least part of the route, and Woolwich or Plumstead could provide an alternative interchange to rail services on the Greenwich/Dartford line.
Or if TFL's priority here is for cross-river services, the obvious solution is that the Silvertown Tunnel should have been built further east instead, linking the A13 near Barking Riverside to the Eastern Way in Thamesmead. This would take over a lot of the traffic currently using the Blackwall Tunnel, allowing more SD routes to be introduced through the existing tunnel there (in place of the 129/SL4/etc). And would help with the inevitable congestion in the Greenwich area where both the Silvertown/Blackwall Tunnels emerge.
But failing that, a relatively cheap solution might be to introduce a passenger ferry crossing the river at this point, connecting to a bus interchange at both ends. Barking Riverside already has a new pier in place, so the main expense really would be constructing another pier opposite at Thamesmead. And Barking Riverside and Thamesmead both already have a good network of frequent bus routes, with the potential for more to be introduced if needed. Particularly north of the river, the EL1/2/3 all go to Barking, so some new links to the east and west might be useful, going via Beckton and Dagenham? Also could divert the SL2 to Barking Riverside (instead of North Woolwich), which would also properly join up the Superloop, allowing for journeys like Ilford to Bexleyheath for example.
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Post by PGAT on Feb 5, 2024 19:06:53 GMT
An extension of the Overground from Barking Riverside has been ruled out for being too unviable. It would require crossing a very wide section of the Thames with a steep gradient and has a less intensive service frequency compared to the DLR
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Post by mb171 on Feb 5, 2024 20:00:35 GMT
bout time. Although Thamesmead does have various bus links to Plumstead, Woolwich and Abbey Wood, it's about time it gets its own station.
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Post by twobellstogo on Feb 5, 2024 20:48:24 GMT
The Thamesmead branch would veer off at Gallions Reach, trains would not go to Beckton (Beckton Riverside would be a separate station on the new branch). Trains from Thamesmead would connect with the Elizabeth Line at Custom House, the Jubilee Line at Canning Town, and could potentially operate direct to Stratford & Stratford International, or the City of London at either Tower Gateway or Bank. Yes that’s why I was saying would passengers really head that way to interchange at Custom House when it would probably be quicker to head to Abbey Wood for Elizabeth Line connection. Be interesting to see if this does actually end progressing. Depends on which part of Thamesmead they are in. From the town centre and the north western corner of Thamesmead, DLR will be quicker, almost certainly. I also hope TfL extend a route to Beckton Riverside with a north travelling tendency if/when this extension occurs - something like the 101 - that would be incredibly useful.
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Post by buspete on Feb 6, 2024 0:09:01 GMT
Shame when they built the DLR to Woolwich it is facing the wrong way, if it was pointing towards Kent then it could be extended to Plumstead, Belmarsh and 3 stations in Thamesmead, it would give a better frequency than the proposed consultation without splitting the route between Thamesmead and Beckton.
Yes Thamesmead does need better transport, but this DLR extention will be quickly overcrowded.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 6, 2024 2:29:36 GMT
An extension of the Overground from Barking Riverside has been ruled out for being too unviable. It would require crossing a very wide section of the Thames with a steep gradient and has a less intensive service frequency compared to the DLR I don't think the frequency is an issue when many rail lines across London operate at a similar frequency or less and the advantage of the Overground is it would bring many more new links and more capacity overall. The DLR extension doesn't add as much to the table - SL3 and Elizabeth line will already offer a quick link to Central London from the end of the month. This country continues to choose cheap options rather than the best options.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 6, 2024 2:30:18 GMT
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MMS2001
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Post by MMS2001 on Feb 6, 2024 3:12:18 GMT
Personally I think having a 3rd DLR Branch from canning town seems rather pointless. I also feel like this would make Beckton obsolete more than it already is. I have no idea on passenger numbers so I could be wrong but the fact that it is just a 10 minute walk from Cyprus Station yet the line has to go upto Gallions Reach only to turn back on itself seems counter intuitive to me.
I think it would make more sense (and be more feasible) to extend the Woolwich Arsenal line instead. I'm not sure of the exact topography but I believe the DLR track passes under the Elizabeth Line to the east of Woolwich Station. Maybe if Woolwich Arsenal was relocated or the DLR integrated into Woolwich Station (maybe a second entrance), it could then be diverted and extended eastbound towards Thamesmead. Of course this would require alot of work but surely it would be more feasible than building a whole new tunnel.
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Post by Dad91 on Feb 6, 2024 6:43:05 GMT
Personally I think having a 3rd DLR Branch from canning town seems rather pointless. I also feel like this would make Beckton obsolete more than it already is. I have no idea on passenger numbers so I could be wrong but the fact that it is just a 10 minute walk from Cyprus Station yet the line has to go upto Gallions Reach only to turn back on itself seems counter intuitive to me. I think it would make more sense (and be more feasible) to extend the Woolwich Arsenal line instead. I'm not sure of the exact topography but I believe the DLR track passes under the Elizabeth Line to the east of Woolwich Station. Maybe if Woolwich Arsenal was relocated or the DLR integrated into Woolwich Station (maybe a second entrance), it could then be diverted and extended eastbound towards Thamesmead. Of course this would require alot of work but surely it would be more feasible than building a whole new tunnel. went to Woolwich arsenal and Woolwich centre amount of new homes being build. And slivertown tunnel. Around the corner.
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