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Post by buspete on Apr 29, 2024 0:32:29 GMT
The few successes of privatisation such as Chiltern Trains have been completely overshadowed by failure of the other franchises. So essentially rail franchises get handsome subsidies much more than the old British Rail, these franchises are normally foreign owned. When there are problems the rail operating companies blame Network Rail and vice versa. Once boarded a trains they are slow with so much headway build in, to minimise compensation claims and to make performance figures look good for the private companies.
Avanti has been mentioned on this thread, which have at chronic cancellations due to shortage of train crews, but still they pay their head a bonus, which is a systematic failure of this country where we reward failure.
So with record subsidies and a lot more passengers carried, they still cannot provide a decent service.
Essentially it has always been socialism to support capitalism, as the same way the PFI contracts were.
So this is a great announcement by Labour and I hope with a Labour Mayor re-elected this week that TFL will take over services in London under the London Overground brand.
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Post by SILENCED on Apr 29, 2024 0:56:09 GMT
The few successes of privatisation such as Chiltern Trains have been completely overshadowed by failure of the other franchises. So essentially rail franchises get handsome subsidies much more than the old British Rail, these franchises are normally foreign owned. When there are problems the rail operating companies blame Network Rail and vice versa. Once boarded a trains they are slow with so much headway build in, to minimise compensation claims and to make performance figures look good for the private companies. Avanti has been mentioned on this thread, which have at chronic cancellations due to shortage of train crews, but still they pay their head a bonus, which is a systematic failure of this country where we reward failure. So with record subsidies and a lot more passengers carried, they still cannot provide a decent service. Essentially it has always been socialism to support capitalism, as the same way the PFI contracts were. So this is a great announcement by Labour and I hope with a Labour Mayor re-elected this week that TFL will take over services in London under the London Overground brand. Does no-one really remember how bad things were in nationalised British Rail days?
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Post by capitalomnibus on Apr 29, 2024 9:57:22 GMT
The few successes of privatisation such as Chiltern Trains have been completely overshadowed by failure of the other franchises. So essentially rail franchises get handsome subsidies much more than the old British Rail, these franchises are normally foreign owned. When there are problems the rail operating companies blame Network Rail and vice versa. Once boarded a trains they are slow with so much headway build in, to minimise compensation claims and to make performance figures look good for the private companies. Avanti has been mentioned on this thread, which have at chronic cancellations due to shortage of train crews, but still they pay their head a bonus, which is a systematic failure of this country where we reward failure. So with record subsidies and a lot more passengers carried, they still cannot provide a decent service. Essentially it has always been socialism to support capitalism, as the same way the PFI contracts were. So this is a great announcement by Labour and I hope with a Labour Mayor re-elected this week that TFL will take over services in London under the London Overground brand. I hope NOT at the London Overground approach, it has been ruined with pathetic names. It is also not as rosy as it may seem and imo MTR who operate Elizabeth line are far better than Arriva Rail London.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 29, 2024 14:45:09 GMT
The few successes of privatisation such as Chiltern Trains have been completely overshadowed by failure of the other franchises. So essentially rail franchises get handsome subsidies much more than the old British Rail, these franchises are normally foreign owned. When there are problems the rail operating companies blame Network Rail and vice versa. Once boarded a trains they are slow with so much headway build in, to minimise compensation claims and to make performance figures look good for the private companies. Avanti has been mentioned on this thread, which have at chronic cancellations due to shortage of train crews, but still they pay their head a bonus, which is a systematic failure of this country where we reward failure. So with record subsidies and a lot more passengers carried, they still cannot provide a decent service. Essentially it has always been socialism to support capitalism, as the same way the PFI contracts were. So this is a great announcement by Labour and I hope with a Labour Mayor re-elected this week that TFL will take over services in London under the London Overground brand. I hope NOT at the London Overground approach, it has been ruined with pathetic names. It is also not as rosy as it may seem and imo MTR who operate Elizabeth line are far better than Arriva Rail London. Names aside, the Overground has been a success
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Post by joefrombow on Apr 29, 2024 15:54:42 GMT
In fairness now since Covid apart from the brand names of individual franchises they are all "re nationalised" as they operate to what the dft tell them too , similar to how the tfl franchise's work so would renationalisation make a difference ? And most people won't care unless fares come down , which they won't .
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Post by buspete on Apr 29, 2024 19:08:33 GMT
I am certainly not saying everything was rosy with British Rail, they certainly wasn’t problem free, but the privatisation industry have never resolved these problems, but received far more generous subsidy for a not better result and many people would say far worse.
I was going through a small station today, which has 4 platforms (Peckham Rye) which is served by no less than 4 TOC.
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Post by matthieu1221 on Apr 29, 2024 19:15:54 GMT
In fairness now since Covid apart from the brand names of individual franchises they are all "re nationalised" as they operate to what the dft tell them too , similar to how the tfl franchise's work so would renationalisation make a difference ? And most people won't care unless fares come down , which they won't . It's the worst of both worlds at the moment with no incentive for innovation (supposedly a brilliance of private sector operations) since they get paid out anyway but they are still looking to make a quick buck whenever and wherever. Labour's paper claims that scrapping the middleman (and having everything under a single entity) will save quite a bit, and the end of a fragmentation will lead to some passenger benefits (delay repay over several operators is a wonderful game of ping pong for instance!). People do seem to care, at least in a headline-grabbing vote way. We'll see about the actual benefits but it's hard to believe it could be worse than the middle of the road approach it is currently...
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Post by towerman on Apr 29, 2024 21:14:00 GMT
The few successes of privatisation such as Chiltern Trains have been completely overshadowed by failure of the other franchises. So essentially rail franchises get handsome subsidies much more than the old British Rail, these franchises are normally foreign owned. When there are problems the rail operating companies blame Network Rail and vice versa. Once boarded a trains they are slow with so much headway build in, to minimise compensation claims and to make performance figures look good for the private companies. Avanti has been mentioned on this thread, which have at chronic cancellations due to shortage of train crews, but still they pay their head a bonus, which is a systematic failure of this country where we reward failure. So with record subsidies and a lot more passengers carried, they still cannot provide a decent service. Essentially it has always been socialism to support capitalism, as the same way the PFI contracts were. So this is a great announcement by Labour and I hope with a Labour Mayor re-elected this week that TFL will take over services in London under the London Overground brand. Does no-one really remember how bad things were in nationalised British Rail days? At the time of privatisation British Rail was one of the most efficient rail systems in Europe and required less subsidy than the privatised mess we have now.
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Post by greenboy on Apr 30, 2024 6:42:38 GMT
Does no-one really remember how bad things were in nationalised British Rail days? At the time of privatisation British Rail was one of the most efficient rail systems in Europe and required less subsidy than the privatised mess we have now. I don't recall British Rail and the word efficient appearing in the same sentence very often, the subsidy is because of higher fares compared to the rest of Europe.
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Post by towerman on Apr 30, 2024 17:17:23 GMT
At the time of privatisation British Rail was one of the most efficient rail systems in Europe and required less subsidy than the privatised mess we have now. I don't recall British Rail and the word efficient appearing in the same sentence very often, the subsidy is because of higher fares compared to the rest of Europe. They had the smallest subsidy of any major rail network in Europe.
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Post by buspete on Apr 30, 2024 21:28:50 GMT
No because newspapers wanted to run British Rail into the ground which they did very successfully. If the privatised industries were like British Rail it would be open season in the press.
Hence adverts taken out in the media by TOC sweetens their little hand.
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Post by capitalomnibus on May 1, 2024 0:09:06 GMT
No because newspapers wanted to run British Rail into the ground which they did very successfully. If the privatised industries were like British Rail it would be open season in the press. Hence adverts taken out in the media by TOC sweetens their little hand. The same way the papers run the privatised companies running the trains into the ground.
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