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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 9:14:45 GMT
Long overdue. Swathes of passengers are left behind by the 08:00-09:00 trains from every station from Honor Oak Park. I'm sure a proper bus route from New Cross Gate to Surrey Quays would probably partially alleviate the problem - the 225 is too slow and only uses single decker, so isn't really a viable alternative. The trains fill up at New Cross Gate to the absolute brim, and then massively empty out at Canada Water - to the extent where there's seats available on some peak trains if you're going further than Canada Water. Call your new route the 415 after I've removed the pointless current one ;D That gives me another thought. The issues on the P4 are because there's no other bus route between Brixton and Lewisham. There's also no bus route between Elephant and Lewisham which is a bit of a gap given how much of a hub Elephant is. Why not cut the 415 back to Brixton and extend it to Lewisham via the Old Kent Road (because that's much quicker than via Peckham from my experience). Route would take about an hour end-to-end, same time as the P4 and it could be double decked with no trouble, as well as allowing the P4 to fulfil the role its role as a local link around Brockley/Forest Hill/Dulwich Anyway, back on topic...
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Post by vjaska on May 8, 2013 10:29:54 GMT
Call your new route the 415 after I've removed the pointless current one ;D That gives me another thought. The issues on the P4 are because there's no other bus route between Brixton and Lewisham. There's also no bus route between Elephant and Lewisham which is a bit of a gap given how much of a hub Elephant is. Why not cut the 415 back to Brixton and extend it to Lewisham via the Old Kent Road (because that's much quicker than via Peckham from my experience). Route would take about an hour end-to-end, same time as the P4 and it could be double decked with no trouble, as well as allowing the P4 to fulfil the role its role as a local link around Brockley/Forest Hill/Dulwich Anyway, back on topic... Interesting.......what's the routing between Brixton & Old Kent Road?
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 13:50:31 GMT
That gives me another thought. The issues on the P4 are because there's no other bus route between Brixton and Lewisham. There's also no bus route between Elephant and Lewisham which is a bit of a gap given how much of a hub Elephant is. Why not cut the 415 back to Brixton and extend it to Lewisham via the Old Kent Road (because that's much quicker than via Peckham from my experience). Route would take about an hour end-to-end, same time as the P4 and it could be double decked with no trouble, as well as allowing the P4 to fulfil the role its role as a local link around Brockley/Forest Hill/Dulwich Anyway, back on topic... Interesting.......what's the routing between Brixton & Old Kent Road? Via the Elephant as the route currently goes at the moment, then round the roundabout at Elephant and down New Kent Road, Bricklayers Arms, Old Kent Road, etc. Capacity between Brixton and Elephant maintained (or possibly even increased if the frequency were to be upped) and Brixton to Tulse Hill has the 2, 196, 322 and 432 so shouldn't suffer. I suggest the Old Kent Road rather than via Peckham as the 436 currently goes. As anyone in my area will tell you, the quickest way to Elephant is always on the 172 via Old Kent Road rather than via the 171 through Peckham. Would also then support the 21 along the Old Kent Road.
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Post by daveb0789 on May 8, 2013 18:28:29 GMT
57 Extra coaches have now been ordered to lengthen the Overground electric fleet to 5 car trains at a cost of £88m www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/27861.aspxNothing has been ordered for GOBLIN line pending a decision on electrification The £88m is part of £320m upgrade, remainder on lengthened platforms, sidings etc. Long overdue. Swathes of passengers are left behind by the 08:00-09:00 trains from every station from Honor Oak Park. I'm sure a proper bus route from New Cross Gate to Surrey Quays would probably partially alleviate the problem - the 225 is too slow and only uses single decker, so isn't really a viable alternative. The trains fill up at New Cross Gate to the absolute brim, and then massively empty out at Canada Water - to the extent where there's seats available on some peak trains if you're going further than Canada Water. The trains are only that busy in the peaks and it only takes 8 minutes from New Cross Gate to Canada Water. A bus can't match that.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 18:41:03 GMT
Long overdue. Swathes of passengers are left behind by the 08:00-09:00 trains from every station from Honor Oak Park. I'm sure a proper bus route from New Cross Gate to Surrey Quays would probably partially alleviate the problem - the 225 is too slow and only uses single decker, so isn't really a viable alternative. The trains fill up at New Cross Gate to the absolute brim, and then massively empty out at Canada Water - to the extent where there's seats available on some peak trains if you're going further than Canada Water. The trains are only that busy in the peaks and it only takes 8 minutes from New Cross Gate to Canada Water. A bus can't match that. The 225 only takes around 10 minutes between New Cross and Canada Water. Besides, the trains are so busy in the peaks they become almost unusable.
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Post by daveb0789 on May 8, 2013 19:34:15 GMT
No offense but not when I've used it. By the time you get out of Canada Water, serve Surrey Quays shopping centre alone is 10 minutes. There's just no comparison for me anyway.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 19:57:12 GMT
No offense but not when I've used it. By the time you get out of Canada Water, serve Surrey Quays shopping centre alone is 10 minutes. There's just no comparison for me anyway. I'm surprised. The scheduled time between Canada Water and New Cross is 13 minutes, looking at the timetable. It shouldn't take 10 minutes between Canada Water and Surrey Quays, it never seems to on the P12 but then of course routes differ. I don't doubt your experience, but I question whether it's particularly common. Anyway, I'd probably take a journey 5-10 minutes longer on the bus than try and crowd onto the Overground and potentially not even get on a train. If you're left behind by one train then there's a 5-10 minute gap anyway! The lack of the round the corner link between New Cross Gate and Surrey Quays is irritating anyway, as I and a lot of people discovered when the Overground temporarily went down the other day - the 225 and a 15 minute walk isn't really favourable. Luckily I have the P12 so it wasn't a problem for me but a journey to New Cross Gate and then a 171/172 would've been far quicker. I am also of the belief that round the corner links shouldn't facilitated solely by rail. Not only is rail generally more expensive, it's more sensitive to disruption (usually a diversion can be found on a bus route, or the service can be more easily regulated but of course that's not possible with only one line that's marred by a signal failure), and interchange from rail to bus is not as easy as interchange from bus to bus, as well as a lot of railway stations not being particularly accessible - you'd have trouble if you were elderly and wished to travel between New Cross Gate and Surrey Quays due to the stairs at New Cross Gate, and would probably actually find it favourable to use two buses (one to New Cross, and then a 225 to Surrey Quays)
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Post by vjaska on May 17, 2013 23:02:28 GMT
There is Overground bus replacement service signs up in Brixton and as I saw them, it made me wonder:
Although, the Overground doesn't stop at Brixton, will the replacement bus service stop at Brixton?
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2013 23:09:32 GMT
There is Overground bus replacement service signs up in Brixton and as I saw them, it made me wonder: Although, the Overground doesn't stop at Brixton, will the replacement bus service stop at Brixton? Sometimes rail replacements do seem to stop off the usual route to allow connections with other lines and because they're on the line of route. One Overground replacement service I noticed was serving Tower Hill.
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Post by snoggle on Jun 7, 2013 16:49:25 GMT
Interesting letter from London Travelwatch to the Chancellor about Barking Gospel Oak electrification. Letter
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Post by IanF on Jun 13, 2013 23:05:33 GMT
Have been travelling on the goblin line a lot recently and even in off peak times the trains are packed and peak times well you need either be brave or have breaks every couple of stops to get space. Can they add a new carriage into the trains at all as the loadings more than justify it that or up the frequencys.
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Post by snoggle on Jun 14, 2013 0:21:58 GMT
Have been travelling on the goblin line a lot recently and even in off peak times the trains are packed and peak times well you need either be brave or have breaks every couple of stops to get space. Can they add a new carriage into the trains at all as the loadings more than justify it that or up the frequencys. Unfortunately it will remain a nightmare unless the government agree to electrify the line. There are no spare trains to increase frequency. It is not cost effective to extend the current trains - TfL put out a tender to get prices for extra coaches or replacement DMUs of a longer length. The prices were sky high because new trains would have to comply with new emissions regulations and would be a tiny batch. The UK has not ordered any DMUs for years which means there are no compliant designs on the market. The only answer is electrification which would provide faster trains and much longer trains - 4 or 5 cars. It is not known whether TfL would order a bigger fleet to allow a more frequent service. The key date is in 2 weeks time when the Chancellor announces the Spending Review for 2015/16. The general consensus is that if the government do not fund electrification then the opportunity will be lost for many years because it will be too late to complete the work prior to Crossrail starting services which will cause more freight trains to be diverted over the GOBLIN thus preventing access and possessions to actually do the electrification works. The Mayor publicly announced this week that his 2020 Vision includes an extension of the GOBLIN to Barking Riverside - over an existing freight line.(I think). There is no way this could be done with diesel trains - electrification is an absolute pre-requisite for this extension.
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Post by snowman on Jun 14, 2013 5:57:10 GMT
Have been travelling on the goblin line a lot recently and even in off peak times the trains are packed and peak times well you need either be brave or have breaks every couple of stops to get space. Can they add a new carriage into the trains at all as the loadings more than justify it that or up the frequencys. Unfortunately it will remain a nightmare unless the government agree to electrify the line. There are no spare trains to increase frequency. It is not cost effective to extend the current trains - TfL put out a tender to get prices for extra coaches or replacement DMUs of a longer length. The prices were sky high because new trains would have to comply with new emissions regulations and would be a tiny batch. The UK has not ordered any DMUs for years which means there are no compliant designs on the market. The only answer is electrification which would provide faster trains and much longer trains - 4 or 5 cars. It is not known whether TfL would order a bigger fleet to allow a more frequent service. The key date is in 2 weeks time when the Chancellor announces the Spending Review for 2015/16. The general consensus is that if the government do not fund electrification then the opportunity will be lost for many years because it will be too late to complete the work prior to Crossrail starting services which will cause more freight trains to be diverted over the GOBLIN thus preventing access and possessions to actually do the electrification works. The Mayor publicly announced this week that his 2020 Vision includes an extension of the GOBLIN to Barking Riverside - over an existing freight line.(I think). There is no way this could be done with diesel trains - electrification is an absolute pre-requisite for this extension. The only alternative would be some second hand diesel units displaced by electrification elsewhere. There are a few projects eg. Lancashire, Welsh valleys, Thames valley, Scotland etc. but I think in most cases the trains have already provisionally been allocated to help local overcrowding or replace early 1980s pacers.. One alternative long shot might be Southern as Govt is looking at a scheme to reopen Uckfield- Lewes so might electrify remaining lines in Sussex thus freeing up the Turbostar diesels.
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