Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2008 21:22:00 GMT
Thanks 'someone'! As a northener, I don't get down to London much so have to rely mainly on the net to keep up to date. At least, Liverpool Central Library gets Tramways and Light Rail magazine each month so it's available for easy reference and keeps me informed of tram developments world-wide. Can anyone tell me SENSIBLY why Britain abandoned trams in the 1950s and 1960s when the rest of Europe kept and modernised theirs? Mal Like the railways, the EXPENSIVE infrastructure was worn down and clapped out. Whilst many European cities were extensively damaged, the necessary post-war rebuilding COULD be done (and include relaying damaged tramways) at little additional cost or upheaval. Here, whilst knackered, it WAS still usable. At the turn of the 1950's, renewal would have been at an unacceptable cost in those post-war austerity years, so tramways had to go. It's that simple I'm afraid. Look at the projected cost for the Cross River Tramlink, £1.2 BILLION IIRC. How many diesel buses would THAT buy?
|
|
|
Post by john on Nov 25, 2008 0:48:14 GMT
But usually isn't it Tower Gateway - Beckton, but not for now, due to the platform extension?? Yes. And no need for malc to try and visualize the routes, as here is the TfL map which shows them: www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/dlr-route-map.pdfThey do not carrying any different names, codes or branding though. Also, I have been on a train before that was going from Crossharbour to Gallion's Reach, even though that is not shown as a route. Presumably this only happens for trains on their way out of service, as that is where the depot is. Have always wondered why you get Gallions Reach turns...now i feel stupid considering i knew the depot was at Gallions Reach!! Anyway, i believe Tower Gateway is re-opening early next year or sometime in 2010. Either way, hurry up!! I'm enjoying the fact i can board an absolutely empty train at Canning Town at the moment, but it's a nightmare coming from the other direction as trains seem to have to wait at Royal Victoria for about 5 minutes so that they can get a clear spot between King George V / Bank services and get into Platform 3. Really is irritating when you have to rush home from uni for work Also, the DLR is very reliable. I'm a semi-regular user of the Beckton line and only once in the last year have a had any major problems. This was while the world trade fair was on at ExCel and one train decided it wasn't going to go anywhere ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2009 9:25:03 GMT
Thanks 'someone'! As a northener, I don't get down to London much so have to rely mainly on the net to keep up to date. At least, Liverpool Central Library gets Tramways and Light Rail magazine each month so it's available for easy reference and keeps me informed of tram developments world-wide. Can anyone tell me SENSIBLY why Britain abandoned trams in the 1950s and 1960s when the rest of Europe kept and modernised theirs? Mal Trams proved to be unsutable for Londons narrow twisting and congested streets, accident levels were becoming very high and increasingly trams were causing traffic congestion so the decision was taken to replace tem with buses which were low costs and could easily be adapted to changing traffic patterns
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2009 11:31:54 GMT
Thanks 'someone'! As a northener, I don't get down to London much so have to rely mainly on the net to keep up to date. At least, Liverpool Central Library gets Tramways and Light Rail magazine each month so it's available for easy reference and keeps me informed of tram developments world-wide. Can anyone tell me SENSIBLY why Britain abandoned trams in the 1950s and 1960s when the rest of Europe kept and modernised theirs? Mal Trams proved to be unsutable for Londons narrow twisting and congested streets, accident levels were becoming very high and increasingly trams were causing traffic congestion so the decision was taken to replace tem with buses which were low costs and could easily be adapted to changing traffic patterns You fail to mention to TOTAL lack of investment in infrastructure during the war years, and after. Also, what are the sources concerning accident rates concerning trams? You also make reference to 'low costs'. Is this CAPITAL costs, or OPERATING costs?
|
|
|
Post by john on Feb 1, 2009 13:26:43 GMT
Trams proved to be unsutable for Londons narrow twisting and congested streets, accident levels were becoming very high and increasingly trams were causing traffic congestion so the decision was taken to replace tem with buses which were low costs and could easily be adapted to changing traffic patterns You fail to mention to TOTAL lack of investment in infrastructure during the war years, and after. Also, what are the sources concerning accident rates concerning trams? You also make reference to 'low costs'. Is this CAPITAL costs, or OPERATING costs? If i remember rightly, and i can find out for certain, the reason trams and trolleys were replaced is down to the lack of investment. What Bob failed to mention was that during the war, LT had realised just how stuck they were when they had to go on diversion, or couldn't lol. Hence they decided to invest in motor buses
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2009 14:32:17 GMT
You fail to mention to TOTAL lack of investment in infrastructure during the war years, and after. Also, what are the sources concerning accident rates concerning trams? You also make reference to 'low costs'. Is this CAPITAL costs, or OPERATING costs? If i remember rightly, and i can find out for certain, the reason trams and trolleys were replaced is down to the lack of investment. What Bob failed to mention was that during the war, LT had realised just how stuck they were when they had to go on diversion, or couldn't lol. Hence they decided to invest in motor buses Exactly what I said. The infrastructure to which I referred was in the upkeep of the permanent way, route development post war, and of course, the vehicles themselves.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2009 15:24:58 GMT
Trams and trolleybuses, and any other form of transport that involves great bits of infrastructure, are of the type where long-term average cost is not that great but there is substantial initial cost, and if negleted costs a fortune to bring back into shape.
The advantage with the moter bus is that there is little infrastructure anyone needs to be concerned about - just a fleet of buses and (rather basic) storage and repair facility.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2009 11:48:27 GMT
Does anyone have a list of routes which DLR operate? It seems to be quite an extensive system, but there is no way way of working out which route goes from where to where by looking at the map. Route numbers or letters would help. Mal From the TfL website:- Bank-Lewisham Bank-King George (Woolwich when completed) Stratford-Lewisham Canning Town-Becton BTW its beckton not becton
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2009 11:54:29 GMT
From the TfL website:- Bank-Lewisham Bank-King George (Woolwich when completed) Stratford-Lewisham Canning Town-Becton BTW its beckton not becton Yes, 'John' pointed this out to me, in NOVEMBER! ;D p.s. Beckton is spelt with a capital 'B' as well!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2009 12:07:39 GMT
BTW its beckton not becton Yes, 'John' pointed this out to me, in NOVEMBER! ;D p.s. Beckton is spelt with a capital 'B' as well! Yes I shortly realised my mistake ;D but oh well
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2009 12:39:32 GMT
From the TfL website:- Bank-Lewisham Bank-King George (Woolwich when completed) Stratford-Lewisham Canning Town-Becton BTW its beckton not becton BTW, it's it's not its! Is this a fun new game?
|
|
|
Post by john on Feb 2, 2009 12:55:59 GMT
BTW its beckton not becton BTW, it's it's not its! Is this a fun new game? I'm loving it at the moment ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2009 12:57:49 GMT
BTW, it's it's not its! Is this a fun new game? I'm loving it at the moment ;D Me too ;D
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2009 13:53:07 GMT
BTW, it's it's not its! Is this a fun new game? I'm loving it at the moment ;D Me too. Unfortunately, at some stage, someone (not the member) will get out of his depth and want to take his bat and ball and go home! ;D
|
|